Religious Right in Canada

[Progressive Tory]

Either way, another fine import from the United States. Enjoy the title royalty free.

Christianity came from the U.S.? I could have sworn Jesus was born in Bethlehem ... a Jew from the Middle East.

[Progressive Tory]

If you're from the Christian Left can you please stop calling yourself a conservative. You're embarassing those of us who actually care about liberty, tradition, the rule of law, and limited government.

A conservative is not for radical change. Ideals of the Religous Right or social conservatives are for radical changes. Things like intolerance, equal marriage and pro-choice evolved over time. So-cons want an immediate end to all that, so in fact are not conservatives but revolutionaries.

We've seen this kind of ideology before, and it often creates erratic behaviour.

For instance, look at the Puritan movement. They left the established church because they opposed the emphasis on the ceremonial and wanted a return to pious living. They were persecuted in Europe so migrated to the colonies where they would have a blank slate.

Then it all went nuts. They started 'fornication lists' and burning people at the stake. They declared war on the native people who had helped them get settled and dictated how a person could dress or think. Only those of a certain station could use embroidery on their clothing and higher up, gold threading in that embroidery. They created a fascist state through perception of how a people should live and act. Things like 'scarlett letters' and being paraded naked in a buckboard wagon, as punishment for just having 'evil thoughts', created a population living in fear.

I am a conservative because I do not want radical change. I want the status quo in terms of social values, because I don't think we should ask the state to dictate those values. They are ours. We control censorship by not watching what we find offensive. We support equal marriage because we don't believe we have the right to tell others how to live, and as a result loving families are emerging, and children of same sex couples do not feel like they can't be cherished members of society because the government wants to make them outcasts.

I support pro-choice, not pro-abortion and there is a big difference. Abortions will still take place whether they are legal or not, just as they have for centuries. Legal abortions put backstreet butchers out of business or avoid an appointment with Dr. Coathanger. I have no problem with anti-abortion ads, when thery're appropriiate. The little babies on a billboard is great. Even the Obama single mother ad that was rejected by the Super Bowl, was fine with me. What I object to are abortion clinics being targetted and women entering them assaulted.

So you see, I am a conservative because I stand on tradition while supporting evolving social culture, that changes as needs dictate.

[Progressive Tory]

I tried to answer Canadian Blue when he suggested that I had to stop calling myself a conservative because I respect the original teachings of Jesus - love, tolerance, mercy and the his belief that the wealthy were corrupting values, putting money above humanity. For some reason it wouldn't work.

A conservative is not for radical change. Ideals of the Religous Right or social conservatives are for radical changes. Things like intolerance, equal marriage and pro-choice evolved over time. So-cons want an immediate end to all that, so in fact are not conservatives but revolutionaries.

We've seen this kind of ideology before, and it often creates erratic behaviour.

For instance, look at the Puritan movement. They left the established church because they opposed the emphasis on the ceremonial and wanted a return to pious living. They were persecuted in Europe so migrated to the colonies where they would have a blank slate.

Then it all went nuts. They started 'fornication lists' and burning people at the stake. They declared war on the native people who had helped them get settled and dictated how a person could dress or think. Only those of a certain station could use embroidery on their clothing and higher up, gold threading in that embroidery. They created a fascist state through perception of how a people should live and act. Things like 'scarlett letters' and being paraded naked in a buckboard wagon, as punishment for just having 'evil thoughts', created a population living in fear.

I am a conservative because I do not want radical change. I want the status quo in terms of social values, because I don't think we should ask the state to dictate those values. They are ours. We control censorship by not watching what we find offensive. We support equal marriage because we don't believe we have the right to tell others how to live, and as a result loving families are emerging, and children of same sex couples do not feel like they can't be cherished members of society because the government wants to make them outcasts.

I support pro-choice, not pro-abortion and there is a big difference. Abortions will still take place whether they are legal or not, just as they have for centuries. Legal abortions put backstreet butchers out of business or avoid an appointment with Dr. Coathanger. I have no problem with anti-abortion ads, when they're appropriate. The little babies on a billboard is great. Even the Obama single mother ad that was rejected by the Super Bowl, was fine with me. What I object to are abortion clinics being targetted and women entering them assaulted.

So you see, I am a conservative, because I stand on tradition while supporting a natural progression in a changing world.

[Canadian Blue]

So you see, I am a conservative because I stand on tradition while supporting evolving social culture, that changes as needs dictate.

Yes, you just abandoned pretty well every single tradition in the name of political correctness, how courageous.

A conservative is not for radical change. Ideals of the Religous Right or social conservatives are for radical changes. Things like intolerance, equal marriage and pro-choice evolved over time. So-cons want an immediate end to all that, so in fact are not conservatives but revolutionaries.

So what you're saying is that a conservative is just a Trudeau Liberal then, correct? By the way Edmund Burke was actually taking a position that wasn't in the mainstream at the time, all you're saying is that you will take any position that is popular. So, once again, you are not a conservative.

Stop calling yourself a conservative Progressive Tory, especially since you're an advocate of handing over freedom of speech to bureaucrats, support abortion on demand, and also oppose tradition. All you've proven to me is that you never really have views that are outside of the politically correct mainsteam and will abandon your principles whenever the mainstream media tells you.

I'm wondering how much more bastardized Progressive Tory can make conservatism. By her definition Joseph Stalin would be considered a conservative in Russia instead Aleksandr Solzhenytsen.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Canadian Blue

[sharkman]

I tried to answer Canadian Blue when he suggested that I had to stop calling myself a conservative because I respect the original teachings of Jesus - love, tolerance, mercy and the his belief that the wealthy were corrupting values, putting money above humanity.

Those aren't the teachings of Jesus(after love... waitaminute, maybe I should hear your definition of what love is), as usual this is just another wish list from a liberal who wants to shape Jesus or Christianity into a form they can dig.

I've questioned your moniker as well, it's obvious you are no tory, and admit to voting NDP. Like I said before, at least have the courage to call yourself what you are.

[eyeball]

I'm wondering how much more bastardized Progressive Tory can make conservatism. By her definition Joseph Stalin would be considered a conservative in Russia instead Aleksandr Solzhenytsen.

There's a little gang of devout conservatives in my town who meet with RCMP officers in the community church basement and discuss how the Charter is wrecking society. They pen articles for the local paper that invoke Stalin's name and sneak around the neighbourhood and report any suspicious activity they find to the authorities. Real charmers eh?

Friends of your's by any chance?

[Progressive Tory]

Stop calling yourself a conservative Progressive Tory, especially since you're an advocate of handing over freedom of speech to bureaucrats, support abortion on demand, and also oppose tradition. All you've proven to me is that you never really have views that are outside of the politically correct mainsteam and will abandon your principles whenever the mainstream media tells you.

Calling right-wing conservatives radicals, as I'm doing, is not being very politically correct. Social conservatives wanting to reverse a century of social progress is not conservative, it's revolutionary.

Waging war on Muslims, or supporting war at all, is not being a Christian. Jesus was a Jew from the Middle East. Would he have voted for war and essentially bombing the Garden of Eden, in the name of Christianity (or Western style Democracy for a larger market share)?

The Religous Right has abandoned the teachings of the prophet, Jesus of Nazareth, "The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious.

If you want the country to return to what you call Christian values, inspire Canadians. I mentioned that I grew up in a poor rough neighborhood, and local churches ran programs to help keep us off the streets. They kept their Bibles in the drawer and found a better way to do God's work. I went to Catholic School, played soccer for the Anglicans, belonged to a youth group sponsored by the Baptists and attended Lutheran dances. Not one single person tried to convert me, and yet maybe all a hand in saving me.

Never been in jail, been married to the same man for 37 years, raised three children, worked most of my life until MS prevented it, now raising a grandson who is severally disabled. I'm no saint but not much of a sinner either.

If I return to Christianity after the Right soured it for me, it will be as a Christian conservative; adhering to the original traditions of Christianity, and not the new movement of arrogance, intolerance and hate.

[guyser]

There's a little gang of devout conservatives in my town who meet with RCMP officers in the community church basement and discuss how the Charter is wrecking society. They pen articles for the local paper that invoke Stalin's name and sneak around the neighbourhood and report any suspicious activity they find to the authorities. Real charmers eh?

Oh brother, any chance you can sit in on the meetings ?

As an aside, what is the issue with monikers on this board? Are you really a 'shark' sharkman? Is eyeball really an eyeball? Can dancer dance? Are you a hybrid of two beers Canadian Blue?

[Oleg Bach]

There's a little gang of devout conservatives in my town who meet with RCMP officers in the community church basement and discuss how the Charter is wrecking society. They pen articles for the local paper that invoke Stalin's name and sneak around the neighbourhood and report any suspicious activity they find to the authorities. Real charmers eh?

Friends of your's by any chance?

Does not appear that any of your little basement bunker types have ever attempted to use the Charter in a real situation - They should be pleased to know that the Charter is off little threat to them, seeing it is spat upon - twisted lied about and use as cat litter box liner by almost all lawyers and Judges in the land. So I wish the Charter would WRECK society - their society of wanna be dictators.

[eyeball]

Funny you should bring up my moniker in the context of these meetings I mentioned.

This group's articles, (I wish our local paper's archives were older than 30 days, I'd love to post them if I could) also discuss how people hate to be watched. Dr Greenthumb also suggested I attend and name names and let them know they're being watched etc etc.

I was actually thinking of joining their group and volunteering to head up their anti-alcohol committee. According to the mission statement they published alcohol is a deadly scourge they'd also like to drive out of our community. The poor souls have been so busy running around trying to locate drug houses however that no one has even had time to think about alcohol. In the meantime 3 new alcohol houses have sprung up. Within 2 blocks of the school no less!

Oh the humanity.

[Alta4ever]

Calling right-wing conservatives radicals, as I'm doing, is not being very politically correct. Social conservatives wanting to reverse a century of social progress is not conservative, it's revolutionary.

Waging war on Muslims, or supporting war at all, is not being a Christian. Jesus was a Jew from the Middle East. Would he have voted for war and essentially bombing the Garden of Eden, in the name of Christianity (or Western style Democracy for a larger market share)?

The Religous Right has abandoned the teachings of the prophet, Jesus of Nazareth, "The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious.

If you want the country to return to what you call Christian values, inspire Canadians. I mentioned that I grew up in a poor rough neighborhood, and local churches ran programs to help keep us off the streets. They kept their Bibles in the drawer and found a better way to do God's work. I went to Catholic School, played soccer for the Anglicans, belonged to a youth group sponsored by the Baptists and attended Lutheran dances. Not one single person tried to convert me, and yet maybe all a hand in saving me.

Never been in jail, been married to the same man for 37 years, raised three children, worked most of my life until MS prevented it, now raising a grandson who is severally disabled. I'm no saint but not much of a sinner either.

If I return to Christianity after the Right soured it for me, it will be as a Christian conservative; adhering to the original traditions of Christianity, and not the new movement of arrogance, intolerance and hate.

You have absolutly no idea on what it is to be conservative, you are a liberal plan and simple. You may want to do some research on what conservativism truely is. Maybe you should take a political compas quiz and see where you really fall on the political spectrum.

http://www.moral-politics.com/

[eyeball]

Does not appear that any of your little basement bunker types have ever attempted to use the Charter in a real situation - They should be pleased to know that the Charter is off little threat to them, seeing it is spat upon - twisted lied about and use as cat litter box liner by almost all lawyers and Judges in the land. So I wish the Charter would WRECK society - their society of wanna be dictators.

No, they seem to have spent more time reporting to the public about how the police complain that the Charter is preventing them from engineering the type of society they want.

Is it even legal for police in their capacity as officials of the state to be discussing getting rid of the Charter in public? This almost sounds like sedition. Perhaps I should bring it to the attention of the HRC.

[Oleg Bach]

The richest most powerful and influential people on earth - who are they? Are they conservatives or liberals - or are they a seperate third party...what title would they have?

[eyeball]

You have absolutly no idea on what it is to be conservative, you are a liberal plan and simple. You may want to do some research on what conservativism truely is. Maybe you should take a political compas quiz and see where you really fall on the political spectrum.

http://www.moral-politics.com/

Let me guess, you scored around 10 on Moral Order and -0 on Moral Rules?

[Canadian Blue]

Calling right-wing conservatives radicals, as I'm doing, is not being very politically correct. Social conservatives wanting to reverse a century of social progress is not conservative, it's revolutionary.

No, it's reactionary. Define your terms.

If you want the country to return to what you call Christian values, inspire Canadians. I mentioned that I grew up in a poor rough neighborhood, and local churches ran programs to help keep us off the streets. They kept their Bibles in the drawer and found a better way to do God's work. I went to Catholic School, played soccer for the Anglicans, belonged to a youth group sponsored by the Baptists and attended Lutheran dances. Not one single person tried to convert me, and yet maybe all a hand in saving me.

Don't worry, I'm sure that soon enough bureaucrats will take over all of those activities. By the way this might come as a shock to you but their were plenty of people in my community who voted Conservative yet were charitable. Apparently compassion isn't restricted to filing taxes with those Christian Conservatives.

Are you a hybrid of two beers Canadian Blue?

No, I prefer Sleemans. My name is my nationality and then what colour my political affiliations usually lie.

No, they seem to have spent more time reporting to the public about how the police complain that the Charter is preventing them from engineering the type of society they want.

Is this another one of your fictitious facts.

Is it even legal for police in their capacity as officials of the state to be discussing getting rid of the Charter in public? This almost sounds like sedition. Perhaps I should bring it to the attention of the HRC.

Funny that you talk about how much you respect the Charter, yet then say those who have issues with the Charter shouldn't have freedom of speech. But then again you probably don't see the irony in that.

[Canadian Blue]

Let's have some fun PT, do the test and see where you line up. I'll even do it to show what my score is:

YOUR SCORE

Your scored 2.5 on Moral Order and -7 on Moral Rules.

The following categories best match your score (multiple responses are possible):

System: Conservatism

Ideology: Conservative NeoLiberalism, Ultra Capitalism

Party: Republican Party

Presidents: Ronald Reagan

04' Election: George W. Bush

08' Election: Ron Paul

PS: I'm not surprised to be close to Ron Paul since I'm more of a paleo-conservative/libertarian.

[eyeball]

Is this another one of your fictitious facts.

No. Its the gospel truth.

Derek Drake, who is running for council, told voters he participated in an anti-drug group called the Ucluelet Community Care Society. He said the community needs to follow a two-pronged approach...

...Dario Corlazzoli said he, too, was involved with the same society. He said police have made it very clear they can do little about the problem because of the Charter of Rights

Mayoral candidate Myles Morrison said there are eight drug houses in Ucluelet...

...The community, he added, can harass the dealers and users. It must also recognize alcohol is a drug, too. Source

Funny that you talk about how much you respect the Charter, yet then say those who have issues with the Charter shouldn't have freedom of speech. But then again you probably don't see the irony in that.

What I have an issue with is when the RCMP in their capacity as officials of the state slag the very Charter that protects society from them. In the time since this little society formed, three new alcohol houses have opened up in our community all licenced by the state, all vetted by council, and all within a couple of blocks of a public school.

What's really hilarious is that the council chambers are in the same building the state uses to persecute people who use drugs and next door is the building the state uses to sell alcohol.

So what do you think, should I try to get on our little societies aclohol committee? Do you think they'll welcome me or will they just edit out that part of their mission statement that says alcohol has to go too? I bet they're wishing they just kept quiet about getting rid of booze myself.

Edited March 9, 2009 by eyeball

[Alta4ever]

Let me guess, you scored around 10 on Moral Order and -0 on Moral Rules?

Nope, but 76% of the world is more socialist then me.

[Alta4ever]

Let's have some fun PT, do the test and see where you line up. I'll even do it to show what my score is:

PS: I'm not surprised to be close to Ron Paul since I'm more of a paleo-conservative/libertarian.

Wow, we are very close.

[eyeball]

I'm a libertarian.

[Canadian Blue]

So Eyeball you just want anti-drug groups to be banned and for the police to never mention the Charter of Rights ever again.

By the way, theirs a difference between a libertarian and a pothead/paranoid conspiracy nut.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Canadian Blue

[Alta4ever]

come on PT lets see your score

http://www.moral-politics.com

Edited March 9, 2009 by Alta4ever

[eyeball]

So Eyeball you just want anti-drug groups to be banned and for the police to never mention the Charter of Rights ever again.

Nope I don't want to ban these groups, I just don't think its appropriate for uniformed state officials to advise them that the Charter is all that stands between them and the moral society they'd all like to engineer. Its one thing for an off-duty cop to show up as Joe Public and spew venom at the same Charter that protects society from people like him/her but when they show up in uniform and do it they're crossing a line that borders on sedition.

By the way, theirs a difference between a libertarian and a pothead/paranoid conspiracy nut.

Its no conspriacy, its a matter of public record.

[Canadian Blue]

Nope I don't want to ban these groups, I just don't think its appropriate for uniformed state officials to advise them that the Charter is all that stands between them and the moral society they'd all like to engineer. Its one thing for an off-duty cop to show up as Joe Public and spew venom at the same Charter that protects society from people like him/her but when they show up in uniform and do it they're crossing a line that borders on sedition.

So pointing out that a certain action that the community wants take would go against the Charter is seditious because?

What you're really pointing out is that the RCMP won't take an action because it's against the Charter, but since they mentioned that the reason they can't take action is due to the Charter, thus automatically making them critical of the Charter, even though they just pointed out the fact that they are suppose to follow the Charter.

Mind telling me how that's seditious eyeball.

[Smallc]

Don't you know? All police officers are inherently evil.