Delusional Liberals in Denial

[August1991]

Am I the only person to note how Canadian Liberals/Leftists imagine falsely that this coalition idea can work? The NDP are traditionally clueless but I'm surprised with the supposed belief of some Liberals, despite all evidence to the contrary, that this coalition makes sense. Liberals are supposed to be pragmatists. Do they not understand that a coalition with the BQ and the NDP is bad for Liberals?

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This has nothing to do with Dion, or incompetent fuzzy webcam videos. This has nothing to do with Harper and his zillions of private dollars to demonize a Liberal leader. My question concerns judgment. Do federal Liberals not understand that a public agreement with the Bloc and the NDP in a formal signng ceremony is bad for the federal Liberal party?

Talking to several Montreal Liberals, and looking through several websites and discussion forums, I have the impression that some Canadian Liberals and leftists are delusional, or in denial.

----

The official chattering classes, even including Chantal Hebert and Andrew Coyne, have made fools of themselves. They are far behind the ball. Few newspapers/TVs will be able to pay their honorariums unless, as Hebert and Coyne have wisely chosen, the employer relies on taxpayer money.

I have been struck by the similarities between this past few days and periods of genuinely revolutionary transformation. At first I thought these were mere analogies: now I am not so sure. Obviously we were not observing some kind of fundamental overthrow or historical rupture, but merely a possible change of government. Yet we were also watching, and participating in, the possibility of a genuine paradigm shift, however fleeting and tantalizing it was.

Dr. Dawg

Clueless.

English Canadans do not want a Liberal government with NDP cabinet ministers, under the thumb of a Bloc veto. IMHO, you don't have to be WASP Anglo Canadian to understand this. I can understand what the NDP and Bloc were thinking but what were the OLO staff thinking?

Federal Liberals are delusional or in denial if they don't understand that this coalition project is crazy. It harms everything Liberals once stood for.

Some Liberals don't understand that the federal Liberal Party needs time to decide what it is supposed to be.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Charles Anthony
fixed url in hyperlink

[scribblet]

It might have worked had the campaigned on it, I believe it was the way it was done that is angering most people, apart from the bloc being involved.

This is a good piece by Manley, not sure if it's allready been posted, now if Many ran for Liberal leadership they would do a whole lot better IMO.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../specialComment

[reasonoverpassion]

English Canadans do not want a Liberal government with NDP cabinet ministers, under the thumb of a Bloc veto. IMHO, you don't have to be WASP Anglo Canadian to understand this. I can understand what the NDP and Bloc were thinking but what were the OLO staff thinking?

Federal Liberals are delusional or in denial if they don't understand that this coalition project is crazy. It harms everything Liberals once stood for.

Some Liberals don't understand that the federal Liberal Party needs time to decide what it is supposed to be.

We understand exactly who we are. We are opposed to arbitary removal of the right to strike. removal of pay equity legisltation, and removal of funds for smaller parties to have a voice in parliament. Harper should not have tried to push his neo-con agenda through at the time he thought he had a weak opposition.

He has backed off of these things (for now) Let see if he tries again in 2009

[Oleg Bach]

We understand exactly who we are. We are opposed to arbitary removal of the right to strike. removal of pay equity legisltation, and removal of funds for smaller parties to have a voice in parliament. Harper should not have tried to push his neo-con agenda through at the time he thought he had a weak opposition.

He has backed off of these things (for now) Let see if he tries again in 2009

More theatre. Smaller parties do not have the money to become big ones. The right to strike (ask for more money) is not realistic - why should those that control the money give it to you? Pay equity is illusionary in it's concept. NO one is equal nor do all deserve equal treatment - we are all different. Harper is not a neo-conservative. He simply represents the banks - neo-cons are south of the boarder and are not conservatives either - they are orgainized crime risen to the highest order. As far as opposing parties -what do they oppose? It's always about money and idealology is just a lot of hot air. If you want to oppose Harper at this point you are opposing the very people that manage the common wealth of all Canadians...attack the wealth and the wealth disappears...and we will all have equity then - equally poor...and all the leftist talk in the world will not and can not regenerate wealth. It maybe wise to let Harper continue and contain the global economic crisis by being as quietly protectionist as possible..we are in good shape - don't breach the walls and let in the rats.

[cybercoma]

About the funding, I want you to admit that Harper did not remove the funding from smaller parties nor was that the intent. Not only did they change that part of the bill less than 24 hours later, but the funding change was aimed at all parties, not just the smaller ones.

[wulf42]

We understand exactly who we are. We are opposed to arbitary removal of the right to strike. removal of pay equity legisltation, and removal of funds for smaller parties to have a voice in parliament. Harper should not have tried to push his neo-con agenda through at the time he thought he had a weak opposition.

He has backed off of these things (for now) Let see if he tries again in 2009

Well it is helping Harper that is for sure.......his popularity is going through the roof! Canada sees the Liberals willing to deal with the devil (bloc) it was a political death sentence for them, even in Halifax which is mostly Liberal the anti-Coalition rally swamped the coalition Rally...lol

Dion is Harpers best chance for a majority!

[myata]

under the thumb of a Bloc veto.

And I wonder, sincerely, truly wonder, what would it take to finally stop droning these clueless, deliberate lies?

[Alta4ever]

And I wonder, sincerely, truly wonder, what would it take to finally stop droning these clueless, deliberate lies?

Lies open you eyes. Your desperation of faith in the liberal/ndp coalition is showing.

[myata]

Coalition is staying, and it will do this for Canadians: ensure that PM and government govern according to the mandate given by Canadians in the election. It could be this, current PM and the government, if they learn to understand the meaning of "minority" and "nonpartisan cooperation". Or, it could the next one, if they don't.

No despair! Coalition stands up, in the interests of everybody in this country.

[Alta4ever]

Coalition is staying, and it will do this for Canadians: ensure that PM and government govern according to the mandate given by Canadians in the election. It could be this, current PM and the government, if they learn to understand the meaning of "minority" and "nonpartisan cooperation". Or, it could the next one, if they don't.

No despair! Coalition stands up, in the interests of everybody in this country.

Do you not get it nothing that this government does will be good enough to satisfy the ideology of the left, this has never been about what was good for Canadians, it is about Jacks revolution

[Keepitsimple]

And I wonder, sincerely, truly wonder, what would it take to finally stop droning these clueless, deliberate lies?

Conservatives far outnumber the combined Liberal/NDP Coalition 143 to 114. The Colaition needs almost every Bloc member to vote with them to pass any legislation. Do you think the Bloc would do this out of the goodness of their heart? Give yourself a shake - the Bloc commands the balance of power....they can pass - or not pass - any piece of legislation.....and they have said that regardless of any agreement, they will not pass legislation if it is not good for Quebec. What does that mean? Take a guess. And that is what they call a veto.

[Sir Bandelot]

English Canadans do not want a Liberal government with NDP cabinet ministers, under the thumb of a Bloc veto. IMHO, you don't have to be WASP Anglo Canadian to understand this.

Well, so glad that you feel fit to speak on behalf of millions of Canadians. But it seems to me from what I see that some Canadians do indeed want this to happen. The real question is, why?

I think because the idea of revolution has appeal to some voters. For me personally, I see the whole system is corrupt and ineffective.

I certainly will never support Harper or the CPC, whom I see as a bunch of cowboy-hat-wearing western bankers with racist non-secular ideas. They want to control people more by restricting freedoms. They want to make us like the United States with big military spending, big prisons for the new Canadian war on drugs, and run the country by fascist ideas.

But the other parties are really no different, they just have different investment partners to answer to.

I would never support Dion, who made a train wreck of the CPC minority government by genuflecting and bowing out during crucial votes, not wanting to oppose ideas even if they were un-liberal, for the sake of politics! What a despicable, spineless tenure.

And forget Layton. He is just another of the same breed, a puppetician controlled by his business ties, who will say and do anything to get votes. Exact same goes for egotist Bob Rae, I would never vote for him. Nor Ignatieff, who undermined his own party time and again, he's either a treacherous backstabber, or just a fool. And we don't need any more of those.

So amongst this deploreable mess that we call Canadian politics today, with these visionless leaders the idea of a coalition is the only one I think has any hope of making improvements. At least, until this generation of losers is put out of harms way. But my cynicism remains. See Vienna "Red" parliament 1931

[Oleg Bach]

Let's clarify this once and for all. People supposedly hate the Tories because they supposedly are the rich man's oppressive party. What I have witnessed first hand in the liberal system is no matter how sweet and politically correct they are - in the over all they are totally oppressive and underhanded all under the guise "caring" - they don't care! With the Tories at least they respect a person that works hard and is loyal...big buisness has the horrific job of holding the nations' wealth - They really don't enjoy it but it's their duty. Do you know how many ageing men in postions of finacial power, can not retire? They are stuck like slaves in their lofty towers because they know once they are gone the whole damned system will fall apart - time to respect our elders - but liberals teach our children to disrespect their parents because they want to OWN our young.

[wulf42]

Coalition is staying, and it will do this for Canadians: ensure that PM and government govern according to the mandate given by Canadians in the election. It could be this, current PM and the government, if they learn to understand the meaning of "minority" and "nonpartisan cooperation". Or, it could the next one, if they don't.

No despair! Coalition stands up, in the interests of everybody in this country.

lol..............the Coalition is kaput along with Taliban Jacks and Dion political careers!

[punked]

Conservatives far outnumber the combined Liberal/NDP Coalition 143 to 114. The Colaition needs almost every Bloc member to vote with them to pass any legislation. Do you think the Bloc would do this out of the goodness of their heart? Give yourself a shake - the Bloc commands the balance of power....they can pass - or not pass - any piece of legislation.....and they have said that regardless of any agreement, they will not pass legislation if it is not good for Quebec. What does that mean? Take a guess. And that is what they call a veto.

When the cons pass legislation they need the bloc to vote with them too. 14 times during the last government this happened. Must be the Cons sold us out to the Bloc lets get ride of them. See how dumb your arguement is?

[August1991]

There is no doubt that Jack Layton is the brain behind the anti-Harper coalition and Stéphane Dion is the funny salesman who tried to sell it to Canadians. But the person who sold it to the Liberals was Bob Rae.

When the first rumours about the coalition surfaced last week on Parliament Hill, few people gave them much credence. Many Liberal MPs wouldn't feel comfortable with Dion leading the Christmas Parade in Vaughan, and Michael Ignatieff and his supporters were against it.

Then former prime minister Jean Chrétien got involved and one MP told me that "now it's clear that Bob Rae is behind this." He also said that Rae's move "trapped" Ignatieff, who had to support the deal because otherwise "he is going to be seen as the person who kept Harper in government."

Toronto Star

This high school student council should be disbanded and the lot of them sent to detention in Miss Grundy's classroom. What a sad collection of keystone cops.

The Liberal Party of Canada needs a long time out to rethink itself.

[sprout]

Any political party that relies almost entirely on funding from the rich and special interest groups should automatically be suspected of pandering to their wishes. This is the case with Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc. Look at their financial statements putting aside, for a moment, the Liberals sponsorship fraud. The middle and lower class do not support them.

[-VMG-]

Any political party that relies almost entirely on funding from the rich and special interest groups should automatically be suspected of pandering to their wishes. This is the case with Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc. Look at their financial statements putting aside, for a moment, the Liberals sponsorship fraud. The middle and lower class do not support them.

So what you're saying is that the middle and lower class supports nobody? because we have to face the facts... unless you are uneducated about the conservative party, you know they are not here to help out lower or middle classes. They may use their sneaky tactics and lower GST by another %, but behind that is the cutting of taxes for major companies and corporations.

But people seem to dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the liberals stayed in power for so long and it's the reason they are up in arms against the coalition...

They don't know what the hell is going on and it's time for people to have to take a class on political systems and pass an exam on it before they should be allowed to vote... because honestly this is just ridiculous.

[blueblood]

So what you're saying is that the middle and lower class supports nobody? because we have to face the facts... unless you are uneducated about the conservative party, you know they are not here to help out lower or middle classes. They may use their sneaky tactics and lower GST by another %, but behind that is the cutting of taxes for major companies and corporations.

But people seem to dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the liberals stayed in power for so long and it's the reason they are up in arms against the coalition...

They don't know what the hell is going on and it's time for people to have to take a class on political systems and pass an exam on it before they should be allowed to vote... because honestly this is just ridiculous.

Tell me how and specifically how centre right policies don't help out lower or middle classes? They would rather see them keep their money they make. Sounds helpful to me. They cut taxes for small business and big business because it makes it easier for them to employ these people.

But some people seem too dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the tories have stayed in power for so long in Alberta and it's a reason tories are up in arms against the coalition...

Left wing parties don't know what the hell is going on and it's time for coalition supporters to take a class in economics and commerce and pass exams on them before they should be allowed to vote... because honestly this is just ridiculous.

[Sir Bandelot]

But people seem to dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the liberals stayed in power for so long and it's the reason they are up in arms against the coalition...

They don't know what the hell is going on and it's time for people to have to take a class on political systems and pass an exam on it before they should be allowed to vote... because honestly this is just ridiculous.

The reason why democracy is now a joke.

[blueblood]

The reason why democracy is now a joke.

It's only a joke because your side keeps losing?

[Sir Bandelot]

It's only a joke because your side keeps losing?

I don't even have a "side", so no, it's not because of that. It's much more than that. Most people are simply too dumb to make an informed vote, and all parties us this to try and manipulate votes.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[-VMG-]

Tell me how and specifically how centre right policies don't help out lower or middle classes? They would rather see them keep their money they make. Sounds helpful to me. They cut taxes for small business and big business because it makes it easier for them to employ these people.

But some people seem too dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the tories have stayed in power for so long in Alberta and it's a reason tories are up in arms against the coalition...

Left wing parties don't know what the hell is going on and it's time for coalition supporters to take a class in economics and commerce and pass exams on them before they should be allowed to vote... because honestly this is just ridiculous.

Keep their money, while the health care system becomes privatized and they have to pay for that straight out of their pocket. along with all the other stuff people already pay for, rent, insurance, food, water.

Sure it helps our the small business a bit, doesn't really do much for a big business since they can get around most of their taxes anyways.

it definitely does not help the lower class. And whether or not it helps the middle class is debatable.

But we are acting as though thats the only issue in politics... There is not party that represents social and economic liberalism. But that would divide the right again and likely give the liberals a minority government.

[Argus]

Well, so glad that you feel fit to speak on behalf of millions of Canadians. But it seems to me from what I see that some Canadians do indeed want this to happen. The real question is, why?

Lack of education, intelligence and reasoning skills?

[capricorn]

They may use their sneaky tactics and lower GST by another %, but behind that is the cutting of taxes for major companies and corporations.

VMG, how much do you know about economics? Do you know what the impact is on the economy when corporate taxes are reduced? Take a guess.

But people seem to dumb to understand this.... it's the reason the liberals stayed in power for so long and it's the reason they are up in arms against the coalition...

People are smarter than you think. For the most part, people understand that you can't tax business into oblivion. Those same people also understand that if the coalition takes control of government, the separatists will hold the balance of power in Ottawa, and will influence legislation and programs that touch Canadians outside Quebec. Not to mention their disdain for the socialist NDP.