Delusional Liberals in Denial

[-VMG-]

If i could take a guess my guess would be... the administrative branch of the company gets a pay raise? Is that it? do i win?

But seriousness... it's not about cutting corporate tax.. It's the big idea that they are really actually helping Canadians out.

The seperatists have always held the balance of power... liberals and NDP could shoot it down, the BQ could vote for it and it would go through... what's your point? Nothing has changed here except the liberals and NDP are voting together (which they normally do anyways)...

Edited December 7, 2008 by -VMG-

[capricorn]

VMG, you have passed Jack Layton's economics test.

As to your assertion that the Bloc always held the balance of power, looks to me you need to do a bit research.

[-VMG-]

VMG, you have passed Jack Layton's economics test.

Do you vote to bailout the banks and the corporations?

[Alta4ever]

Do you vote to bailout the banks and the corporations?

Who was it again who said that their wasn't a situmlus package in the budget statement like we are seeing in the US? Where did that stimulus package go?

Now who votes for what.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Alta4ever

[Martin Chriton]

When the cons pass legislation they need the bloc to vote with them too. 14 times during the last government this happened. Must be the Cons sold us out to the Bloc lets get ride of them. See how dumb your arguement is?

Why is it that some Liberals have trouble understanding simple probability? With the CPC's seats in the house the only need one other party to vote with them or abstain. With the Liberal seat standings they'd need two. The Liberals would obviously have a much harder getting legislation passed.

This is basic math guys

[blueblood]

Keep their money, while the health care system becomes privatized and they have to pay for that straight out of their pocket. along with all the other stuff people already pay for, rent, insurance, food, water.

Sure it helps our the small business a bit, doesn't really do much for a big business since they can get around most of their taxes anyways.

it definitely does not help the lower class. And whether or not it helps the middle class is debatable.

But we are acting as though thats the only issue in politics... There is not party that represents social and economic liberalism. But that would divide the right again and likely give the liberals a minority government.

By forcing everyone to take public healthcare, you in essence believe that millionaires should be eating out of soup kitchens. Two tier is needed in Canada and badly. Poor people get their care, and people who can pay don't plug up the system.

A big business pays corporate tax and their shareholders get taxed on their income, same as CEO's and boardroom members. If anything big business gets gouged at tax time.

Robert Herjavec came to canada with 20 dollars in his pocket. He became one of the richest people in Canada, and not by accepting handouts. Centre right wants to give opportunity to succeed, the left wants to take it away.

[-VMG-]

You are forgetting everyone else who has to be used in order for success to happen... mcdonalds is a billion dollar business.. and their workers get paid minimum wage. If everyone deicded they wanted to succeed companies would fail because there would be no workers.

I think you are forgetting the essential part of becoming successful in a capitalistic society.. you have to tread on the poor people...

I'm not just thinking about canadians... i'm thinking about the world and the impoverty of the world... these guys spend their million on fancy cars and private jets and million dollar houses while people starve by the thousands in africa.

You think there are any big businesses out there that hasn't exploited some resource or another? What gives them the right?

This system does not give everyone the opportunity for success.

As for Two Tier healthcare, Who is going to get the better treatment... the hospital funded by the million dollar businessman, or the public hospital funded by the government?

Not to mention when Ralph Klein wanted to have 2 tier system... he still wanted the private system to be funded by the government.

[blueblood]

You are forgetting everyone else who has to be used in order for success to happen... mcdonalds is a billion dollar business.. and their workers get paid minimum wage. If everyone deicded they wanted to succeed companies would fail because there would be no workers.

I think you are forgetting the essential part of becoming successful in a capitalistic society.. you have to tread on the poor people...

I'm not just thinking about canadians... i'm thinking about the world and the impoverty of the world... these guys spend their million on fancy cars and private jets and million dollar houses while people starve by the thousands in africa.

You think there are any big businesses out there that hasn't exploited some resource or another? What gives them the right?

This system does not give everyone the opportunity for success.

As for Two Tier healthcare, Who is going to get the better treatment... the hospital funded by the million dollar businessman, or the public hospital funded by the government?

Not to mention when Ralph Klein wanted to have 2 tier system... he still wanted the private system to be funded by the government.

McD's workers are paid minimum wage becasue that's all their worth. Those McDonalds workers are getting paid that much because they agree to it. Tims workers in Alberta were getting 19 bucks an hour.

Poor people don't get treaded on in a capitalistic society, they tread on themselves. How does treading on poor people make for a successful capitalistic society, if anything treading on poor people makes it worse. Having more people who can afford to buy your goods is what makes for a successful capitalistic society and that is why they invest in poor countries so people there have money to buy their products.

These guys spend their piles of money because they bloody well earned it. If people in Africa decided to civilize themselves and not kill each other, they'd be better off as well and could be rich themselves.

By exploiting resources, big business is improving their lives, their customer's lives, and their worker's lives. That's what gives them the right, plus taking the risk and providing the capital to do so.

Well since that private hospital is going to be paying taxes, the public hospital who receives those new taxes will be running good as well. Part of the two tier system is doctor pay equity so that both sides get the same skilled doctor and equipment.

To sum it up. Socialism is a dead horse and a bloody joke.

[-VMG-]

It may not be good for the economic system in the long run... but it works in the short term... and why does the businessman give a shit about long term when he's got his millions today... the economy bombs... he just leaves the country.

I suppose we can talk about theoretical and hypothetical situations and beliefs, but corruption and greed are human nature and have really stunted the growth of either economic system.

[Canadian Blue]

I've always had a certain infatuation with the Swiss Healthcare system. It seems like they have the right blend of universality, competition, and innovation, which is clearly lacking in Canada.

[August1991]

You are forgetting everyone else who has to be used in order for success to happen... mcdonalds is a billion dollar business.. and their workers get paid minimum wage. If everyone deicded they wanted to succeed companies would fail because there would be no workers.

I think you are forgetting the essential part of becoming successful in a capitalistic society.. you have to tread on the poor people...

VMG, that is evidence of zero-sum thinking. You assume that the pie is fixed and if someone gets a bigger piece, someone else has received a smaller piece. Life is not like that. Our wealth in Canada is not built on the poverty of others.

[-VMG-]

VMG, that is evidence of zero-sum thinking. You assume that the pie is fixed and if someone gets a bigger piece, someone else has received a smaller piece. Life is not like that. Our wealth in Canada is not built on the poverty of others.

How is life not like that... we have limited resources... the pie constantly becomes smaller... and if someone takes a larger piece then someone else gets a smaller piece...

I guess if you want to look at it as simply this generation, then yes pieces can be bigger without others having smaller pieces in the short run.... but if everyone grabs a big piece... whats left for the next generations to come? There has to be an end to the pie somewhere!

[August1991]

I guess if you want to look at it as simply this generation, then yes pieces can be bigger without others having smaller pieces in the short run.... but if everyone grabs a big piece... whats left for the next generations to come? There has to be an end to the pie somewhere!

Think of new ideas and new technology. When we discovered new ideas like calculus and new technology like electricity, the world became richer and this wealth did not come at the expense of anyone.

By and large, future generations will be better off than we are because they will inherit all the new ideas and discoveries from current and past generations. Just think of the Internet and computers.

[M.Dancer]

When the cons pass legislation they need the bloc to vote with them too. 14 times during the last government this happened. Must be the Cons sold us out to the Bloc lets get ride of them. See how dumb your arguement is?

No they only needed the Liberals...I believe they got alomost every peice of legislation passed with Liberal support.....many many peices of legislation either the CPCs voted against the bloc or the bloc voted against the CPC....

but don't let facts get in the way of your fantasies...

[M.Dancer]

I don't even have a "side", so no, it's not because of that. It's much more than that. Most people are simply too dumb to make an informed vote, and all parties us this to try and manipulate votes.

After reading many of your posts, I think you can really fairly only speak about your own sad state...

[-VMG-]

No they only needed the Liberals...I believe they got alomost every peice of legislation passed with Liberal support.....many many peices of legislation either the CPCs voted against the bloc or the bloc voted against the CPC....

but don't let facts get in the way of your fantasies...

Many of those votes are put to confidence votes with the conservative party... The bloc has nothing to lose and much to gain when there is an election... no one ever blames the bloc for bringing down the government... it's always the other parties... The bloc couldn't care less if there was an election or not from a non-confidence vote.

But if it came down to it, if the liberals did not support it, it could still be passed by the bloc.

But just remember that a lot of legislation under the conservative government is proposed as a confidence vote.

[Sir Bandelot]

After reading many of your posts, I think you can really fairly only speak about your own sad state...

I have no idea what prompts you to lash out at people who are simply trying to express their views.

Do yourself a favour, if you cant behave don't read or respond to any more my posts.

[White Doors]

And I wonder, sincerely, truly wonder, what would it take to finally stop droning these clueless, deliberate lies?

How is it a lie?

The Liberals and NDP have less seats together than the Conservatives. They would have to have Bloc support on EVERY confidence motion passed. full stop. fact.