Coalition Government

[William Ashley]

The LPC and NDP do not have a "coalition" with the BQ.

The CPC do not have enough seats to forma "Stable minority government" which is why the GG granted Prime Minister Harper a Prorogue until Jan 29th.

The LPC and NDP do not have more seats then the CPC. The CPC rely upon the BQ much like the Coalition. Either party receiving support of the BQ has majority control and will pass legislation.

Of course, I know you know this, you just want to continue a false myth.

The bloc is part of the Coalition on matters of Confidence votes until October 2010, while the NDP and Liberals were ok until 2011.

Technically they ARE part of the coalition in the house of Commons, but there was no information concerning them being in Cabinet - eg. having any minister posts.

[William Ashley]

The bloc is part of the Coalition on matters of Confidence votes until October 2010, while the NDP and Liberals were ok until 2011.

Technically they ARE part of the coalition in the house of Commons, but there was no information concerning them being in Cabinet - eg. having any minister posts.

If you don't understand what that means you need to learn a little more about Canadian Law, what it essentially means is they woulnd't hold the title Hon. or Rt. Honourable nearly as much. It also means they wouldn't be part of the govenor in council, and they wouldn't be privy councillors at base, and wouldn't have access to cabinet records of the period of the government - which pc/gic usually have even after their term ends.

[myata]

No matter how the things will play out, the coaltion has already played an important role in exposing the PM for the power hungry hypocrite he is, the one, prepared to use all means at all, not stopping for anything only to stick to the power for a while longer. I sincerely hope that his act in this self inspired "crisis" will relieve him forever of any hope of his coveted majority, and maybe, would make responsible people in the CPC, who care for the well being of the country more than short term fortunes of their group, realize him for the liability his irresponsible jerk act has made him into.

Then again, I'm not in the business of making predictions, so I'll only say once again, that we fully deserve every single bit, and more, of the future we create with our choices.

[Martin Chriton]

The point is that the NDP/Liberal coalition is not any more stable than the Conservative Party alone as the Coalition holds less seats than the Conservatives and is inherently unstable due to ideological differences. If we're at a point in history where Canada is to be governed by whomever the Bloc Quebecois alleges they will support, then God bless Canada because it is on its deathbed.

It's less.

Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition requires three parties to agree on everything.

Conservative + X only requires agreement between two parties.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Martin Chriton

[charter.rights]

If you don't understand what that means you need to learn a little more about Canadian Law, what it essentially means is they woulnd't hold the title Hon. or Rt. Honourable nearly as much. It also means they wouldn't be part of the govenor in council, and they wouldn't be privy councillors at base, and wouldn't have access to cabinet records of the period of the government - which pc/gic usually have even after their term ends.

I think you need to study the Parliamentary procedure a little more.

The Bloc is not part of the Coalition. The Coalition is exclusively the Liberal-NDP that have the confidence of the house - which means for now the Bloc has agreed not to vote against them in any confidence votes. It doesn't mean they are part of the coalition at any time, nor do they need to be at any time. If the Liberal-NDP lose the confidence of the house, through the Bloc AND the Conservatives voting against them ~together~ then the government will fall. The Bloc is providing the confidence for the Coalition just like it provided the confidence for the Conservatives last term. It doesn't mean that anyone is in bed with them or that they have given in to "separatists" to achieve that end.

Edited December 6, 2008 by charter.rights

[Shady]

The Bloc is not part of the Coalition.

Pure semantics. Without the Bloc there is no coalition. I'm almost hoping these idiots force this on the Canadian people. Polls show Harper would win a record majority from the backlash. So far, this has been the worst played hand in Candian political history.

[punked]

Pure semantics. Without the Bloc there is no coalition. I'm almost hoping these idiots force this on the Canadian people. Polls show Harper would win a record majority from the backlash. So far, this has been the worst played hand in Candian political history.

Pure semantics with out the Bloc, the Liberals, or the NDP voting with the Cons there is no government. So it is ok as long as the Block votes with the Cons right? Just wrong when they come out and say "Yes we agree with the NDP and Liberals"?

[blueblood]

Pure semantics with out the Bloc, the Liberals, or the NDP voting with the Cons there is no government. So it is ok as long as the Block votes with the Cons right? Just wrong when they come out and say "Yes we agree with the NDP and Liberals"?

It's not OK when the bloc are seen signing a petition with the other two opposition leaders in a giant photo op. You may be technically right, but the optics are terrible. Voters remember optics, not technicalities.

[punked]

It's not OK when the bloc are seen signing a petition with the other two opposition leaders in a giant photo op. You may be technically right, but the optics are terrible. Voters remember optics, not technicalities.

It appears right now the opinion in Quebec is that if Harper is going to call them all separatist they should think about separating again. He is the one fanning the flames.

"Baffled by the intensity of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s aggressive condemnations of the Liberal-NDP coalition’s deal with the Bloc Québécois, Quebecers are now weighing the consequences of his strategy.”Maybe the rest of Canada is going to help Quebec separate, and that would be great!” said Nathalie Pauzé, a graphic designer in Montreal, and evidently a sovereignist at heart.

Pauzé thinks that when it comes to national unity, Harper’s ongoing invective against the separatist Bloc – which had only agreed to support the coalition – has fanned the flames of discord, and that can only help the sovereignist cause in Quebec."

Working with Quebec and the Party the majority of Quebec voted in might be a way to killing the movement and it had been working. Now next election instead of a battered Bloc that works with Canada. We get an embolden one that is a pure Harper creation.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/548827

[blueblood]

It appears right now the opinion in Quebec is that if Harper is going to call them all separatist they should think about separating again. He is the one fanning the flames.

"Baffled by the intensity of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s aggressive condemnations of the Liberal-NDP coalition’s deal with the Bloc Québécois, Quebecers are now weighing the consequences of his strategy.”Maybe the rest of Canada is going to help Quebec separate, and that would be great!” said Nathalie Pauzé, a graphic designer in Montreal, and evidently a sovereignist at heart.

Pauzé thinks that when it comes to national unity, Harper’s ongoing invective against the separatist Bloc – which had only agreed to support the coalition – has fanned the flames of discord, and that can only help the sovereignist cause in Quebec."

Working with Quebec and the Party the majority of Quebec voted in might be a way to killing the movement and it had been working. Now next election instead of a battered Bloc that works with Canada. We get an embolden one that is a pure Harper creation.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/548827

The compass poll disagrees with that.

[punked]

The compass poll disagrees with that.

Give it a week that was done before we lost 70,000 jobs and oil was heading for 25$ a barrel. The latest polls shows most of Canada while they would as of yesterday support Harper if we went to an election still blame him for this whole coalition hoopla. Well with a Recession Bond to be projected next quarter, record high unemployment, the auto sector asking for 6 billion and no Alberta Oil to save us all and Harper being blamed for the closing of parliament we will see what happens in a month. The public is fickle and lets face it this will be the new constant news for the next year. We got a long hard road and Harper is going to take the blame with out Dion at the head of the Liberal government. Keep fanning the flames of Quebec Harper.

Edited December 6, 2008 by punked

[August1991]

It appears right now the opinion in Quebec is that if Harper is going to call them all separatist they should think about separating again. He is the one fanning the flames.

Huh? Charest is poised to win a majority and the sovereignty option is polling in the low thirties. The latest polls show that Harper's popularity in Quebec is up.

----

The coalition is dead in the water. Once Liberal MPs have a chance to talk to their constituents, you will see a general movement away from Dion and toward any face-saving method to extricate themselves from this coalition project.

[punked]

Last time I checked polls wont matter much for another 2 months becuase we have no government for that time. They closed it down remember?

Charest came out yesterday and said the Bloc is a Fed party and Harper should stop crying because democracy isn't going his way.

[Smallc]

we have no government for that time.

Yes we do, we just have no parliament. Government business goes on as usual. Special measures can even be taken by the Governor General for emergency financing if absolutely necessary. Things haven't stopped.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Smallc

[cybercoma]

And regardless, they would have recessed for holidays in another week or so anyway.

[myata]

Well, folks, we're in a tough squeeze..as tought as it gets. Between the inept and the nasty, the options are dismal. The leader we can't respect vs the one who can't be trusted on a single word.... somebody or something, help us.

[jdobbin]

The coalition is dead in the water. Once Liberal MPs have a chance to talk to their constituents, you will see a general movement away from Dion and toward any face-saving method to extricate themselves from this coalition project.

And then Harper will call an election anyway.

[Argus]

It appears right now the opinion in Quebec is that if Harper is going to call them all separatist they should think about separating again. He is the one fanning the flames.

Working with Quebec and the Party the majority of Quebec voted in might be a way to killing the movement and it had been working. Now next election instead of a battered Bloc that works with Canada. We get an embolden one that is a pure Harper creation.

The popularity of the Coalition in Quebec reflects the inherent bigotry and anti-anglo attitude of most Quebecers. The only thing this coallition had going for it, as far as they were concerned, were that 2 French Quebec guys would be in charge. That's all they really cared about too.

The almost certain result of a coallition like this would be a massive boost to the Bloc fortunes in Quebec. Not only would they have succeeded in winning all sorts of goodies for Quebec, but the Liberals would have basically legitimized the BQ as a force within confederation - even though, of course, they would be working the whole time to undermine confederation.

Those federalist Quebecers who have clung to the Liberals or perhaps voted for the Tories would now reconsider what was in Quebec's interests, and quite possibly change their votes. I've said all along that this would lead to a BQ sweep next election, with them winning all but a very few seats in Quebec. That, in turn, would make it almost impossible for either the Liberals or the Conservatives to win majorities again - leaving the BQ in the cats bird position indefinitely. That is not a good situation for Canada, and without question it would fan the flames of anger and dislike in TROC towards Quebec.

Harper's bashing the separatists was by far the lesser evil.

[speaker]

There's interesting anomalies around, The idea that only 30% of Quebec is interested in sovereignty stands beside this wierd belief that Quebecers want to separate. The same sort of thing comes out in this belief that the only thing quebec is interested is in getting financial concessions from the rest of Canada.

I wonder if there isn't some self projection involved in these theories. If that is where the Conservatives are getting their policy development from you can understand why we keep getting into the soup.

[madmax]

It's not OK when the bloc are seen signing a petition with the other two opposition leaders in a giant photo op. You may be technically right, but the optics are terrible. Voters remember optics, not technicalities.

That is correct.

I thought this thread was going to die along with the suspension of parliment. Ok, I thought it might continue for a bit, but I see the vote count is still upwardly mobile.

I have to wonder,

1) why hasn't the anti-coalition vote overtaken the coalition vote.

2) How long is the dead man walking going to lead the coalition in the vote poll above.

I question the sanity of those who primed Dion to the lead in these polls..... What one earth were you thinking?

How do those people who choose Dion like their choice? Why would you pick a 2 time loser? Clearly he is going to receive his third set of termination papers as leader.

Well Coalition supporters. You have time, choose your leader....

Anti Coalition, can't believe your still trailing.....

83 votes and counting.

[myata]

I won't make any predictions, it's a cheap and uncertain business (actually the secret to making 100% successful predictions is to cover all, or at least, most, possible outcomes), but to round it up, and more importantly, to discuss how things could be moved forward from here.

1. Coalition was absolutely necessary to stop Harper from bulling his way through the house, as he did previously. His calculation has been that he'd be able to shove whatever his heart desired at the moment with complete impunity because the opposition wouldn't date to defeat him and cause another election. Coalition was a smart, responsible and mature way to stop the government from throwing its weight around, while sparing us another election. In that it has fully achieved its purpose. Harper has backtracked and even more, was made to call for an extraordinary retreat, so save his sore a.... Bravo and kudos to those who came up with, and made possible this strategy.

2. The threat of the coalition should remain over Harper's head for as long as the country is in a tough economic situation, whether 3/6/12 months, and so on. It's the only way that he won't be back to his old nasty self the moment he sees that he could do it with impunity.

3. Obviously, coalition has a leadership issue. Unfortunate as it is for Mr Dion, he appears to be inacceptable for the Canadian public as a potential leader of the government. This is a big impediment to the success of coalition. He should admit it and step down.

4. Internal discussions are normal and are a sign of a working democratic process. Only in the Harper iron fist run party there's always and everywhere a 100% agreement on everything; sign of the things that could come (AECL affair being b.t.w another example to that) of the things that could come to pass, should he ever get his hands on a majority? Anyways, coalition is a serious business, all participant parties should have discussions and meetings about it, and take democratic decision. From there, the only question that should be asked, should be, is it being done in good faith and in the best interests of the country?

5. Coalition should patiently and persistently educate population on the basics of democratic process. After that, it's down to the people to make the final call (at the time of election). No government can be better and/or smarter than the people. It can only offer a choice. If understanding of very basics of the parliamentary democracy, good governance, is too challenging for us, perhaps, the ironfist regime run from the central office is what we need and deserve.

[blueblood]

I won't make any predictions, it's a cheap and uncertain business (actually the secret to making 100% successful predictions is to cover all, or at least, most, possible outcomes), but to round it up, and more importantly, to discuss how things could be moved forward from here.

1. Coalition was absolutely necessary to stop Harper from bulling his way through the house, as he did previously. His calculation has been that he'd be able to shove whatever his heart desired at the moment with complete impunity because the opposition wouldn't date to defeat him and cause another election. Coalition was a smart, responsible and mature way to stop the government from throwing its weight around, while sparing us another election. In that it has fully achieved its purpose. Harper has backtracked and even more, was made to call for an extraordinary retreat, so save his sore a.... Bravo and kudos to those who came up with, and made possible this strategy.

2. The threat of the coalition should remain over Harper's head for as long as the country is in a tough economic situation, whether 3/6/12 months, and so on. It's the only way that he won't be back to his old nasty self the moment he sees that he could do it with impunity.

3. Obviously, coalition has a leadership issue. Unfortunate as it is for Mr Dion, he appears to be inacceptable for the Canadian public as a potential leader of the government. This is a big impediment to the success of coalition. He should admit it and step down.

4. Internal discussions are normal and are a sign of a working democratic process. Only in the Harper iron fist run party there's always and everywhere a 100% agreement on everything; sign of the things that could come (AECL affair being b.t.w another example to that) of the things that could come to pass, should he ever get his hands on a majority? Anyways, coalition is a serious business, all participant parties should have discussions and meetings about it, and take democratic decision. From there, the only question that should be asked, should be, is it being done in good faith and in the best interests of the country?

5. Coalition should patiently and persistently educate population on the basics of democratic process. After that, it's down to the people to make the final call (at the time of election). No government can be better and/or smarter than the people. It can only offer a choice. If understanding of very basics of the parliamentary democracy, good governance, is too challenging for us, perhaps, the ironfist regime run from the central office is what we need and deserve.

What are you talking about. The coalition has been a complete and utter failure. Canadians are livid at them. Harper has ammunition to go to the Canadian public. Prominent Liberals have called for Dion's head. Tory brass is laughing right now, because now all Harper has to do is bully the opposition into another election, and judging how mad the population is at this seperatist coalition, harper will get his election. As a tory supporter I am very happy with the results of the past week, the looney left has egg on their face, and the tories are in good shape for when they lose confidence of the house.

[Argus]

There's interesting anomalies around, The idea that only 30% of Quebec is interested in sovereignty stands beside this wierd belief that Quebecers want to separate. The same sort of thing comes out in this belief that the only thing quebec is interested is in getting financial concessions from the rest of Canada.

In the last referendum, the majority of Francophone Quebecers voted to separate. Of those Francophone Quebecers who voted against separating, the majority, when questioned, said they did so out of economic fears. Understand? There just is little love for Canada among Francophone Quiebecers. As I said last month, if oil was discovered under Quebec they'd separate within a year.

[myata]

Let's look at the facts though: Harper retracked all his little stings which he hoped to shove down the opposition's throat. Not only that, but he also had to run for extraordinary cover to GG. Putting his future in the government and his own party, in far less than certain perspective.

All else what you mentioned, may be attractive and enticing (to a conservative soul) but still just the fantasies, and groundless musings. Harper's anticks haven't gone unnoticed, and while people want their government to get down to business, he'll have yet to answer for them.

Finally, I wouldn't necessary count on him "getting it". GG has been wise and granted acting PM his first wish; it does not imply that he'll keep getting his wants over reasonable requests of the others (especially if keeps showing inability to behave in a responsible and sensible manner, required by the situation).

[Keepitsimple]

The Coalition trips over itself to say that the Bloc is not part of the Coalition. That means the Conservatives outnumber the Coalition 143 to 114. Dion was considered by Canadians to be the worst leader ever. The Liberals got the lowest vote percentage in their history. The NDP has never come close to the levers of power......and the Left calls Harper anti-democratic? What is wrong with these people?