Coalition Government

[fellowtraveller]

He has to go.

Six weeks ago Canada said Harper has to stay. Today some yobs on a mesage board, and the losers of that election, say he has to go.

Yawn.

Whatever happens in the near future, the frantic power hungry snivellings of the Bloc Torontois actions have one certain outcome: a Tory majority at the next election.

[charter.rights]

Six weeks ago Canada said Harper has to stay. Today some yobs on a mesage board, and the losers of that election, say he has to go.

Yawn.

Whatever happens in the near future, the frantic power hungry snivellings of the Bloc Torontois actions have one certain outcome: a Tory majority at the next election.

Perhaps you might provide your opinion on "how" a majority might develop, given that Harper has pissed off and insulted Quebecers, and tried to paint the rest of the country as incompetent boobs incapable of understanding the economic crisis is more than partisan politics?

[myata]

Six weeks ago Canada said Harper has to stay. Today some yobs on a mesage board, and the losers of that election, say he has to go.

Yawn.

That was then. When he promised non-partisan cooperation with all parties for the benefit of the country. And this is now. After he's shown that he's either pathologically incapable of understanding and cooperation, or never intended it in the first place. Which comes to the same conclusion: he has to go, and fast.

And most certainly after the mess he's created out of nothing, entirely out of his uncurable spite and inability to work with others, I'd highly doubt he'd even get a shot at another election. I never make predictions though, political ones in particular.

[madmax]

Has the thought been put forward that the NDP or Liberals never intended to co-operate with the CPC?

I would say that the NDP were interested in working with the CPC as much as the CPC was interested in working with the NDP. The BQ was comfortable with the CPC, so I don't know what went wrong there, or perhaps nothing other then the public funding was enough to make any talk become action. The LPC, working with the BQ? That is a hard feat to achieve. The LPC were interested in making parliment work, and not abstaining, so, what does that leave you. They would have to work with the CPC or vote down the Government.

When the CPC put forth the concept of cutting the vote subsidy, it started a fire that the NDP and LPC fanned until it got to this level.

The NDP and LPC did not fan the fire. Get real. Who started the fire? The CPC had an excellent opportunity to present a budget, and work with a beaten and defeated LPC in disaray, looking for a new leader. Instead Harper choose to kick a downed opponent in the head! The intent of a policy change wasn't for the benefit of the public, but to KILL the LPC. And it would have. What Harper did was pull the ax out, to cut the head off of the LPC. Don't talk about fanning a fire. The LPC had barely and ash left, and it was the CPC Harper, that fanned the fire and should take total responsibility for creating a political crises, a constitutional crises, and now spread a policy decision into a national unity crises, between East and West. And he is trying to put the Genie back in the bottle as best as he can. I would suggest he is doing a mediocre to poor job at best, vs a Dion helmed coalition.

[myata]

He wouldn't even come close to admitting any responsibility for the crisis he has created out of nothing. Thin air plus buring unsatiable "kill 'em" instinct. I don't know what's left for him now. Is there anybody, other than his staunch partisans, who'd believe anything he has to say? Anybody who'd want to work with him in good will?

[jdobbin]

Six weeks ago Canada said Harper has to stay.

The electorate gave him a minority. In our system that requires confidence to operate. How has Harper tried to instill confidence in Parliament?

[g_bambino]

The electorate gave him a minority. In our system that requires confidence to operate. How has Harper tried to instill confidence in Parliament?

I'm starting to see that these kinds of legitimate questions are falling on deaf ears when being asked to die-hard Conservative supporters.

[madmax]

Double post deleted.

Edited December 4, 2008 by madmax

[madmax]

This is likely to be one of the last posts or more importantly last time anyone will bother voting in this threadpoll.

Should something intriguing happen late January, we may see this poll come back to life..

To the 82 people who voted. Congrats. I will be receiving $1.95 for all your votes. That is $159.90 will be going towards my political policy making convention.

The perogies will have put this poll to sleep.

I want to thank a few special posters.

Alta4ever who was the "unofficial" leader of the anti coalition campaign (and unofficial I HATE JACK cheerleader), and leader of the NO POLITICAL WELFARE, campaign. His 39 votes raised 76.05 and this money will go to me by default. I am against political party funding like Alta4ever, but I am also a hypocrite and know how many cases of beer his share can buy.

I want to thank Argus, who remained sane while under duress and assault from many newcomers to the Web.

I want to thank Guyser, for not posting in this thread, or bothering me. Probably didn't vote either.

I want to thank everyone on Maple Leaf Web that didn't get overheated, kept cool and let this run its course while keeping on topic. August 1991 for be the first serious poster to a thread that started as a joke. August might have been the first person to recognise something was happening out there, while we were kidding. Over 1000 posts ago, Augusts 1991, "I don't like the wording of the questions" still rings true, as the joke became serious, and the laughter and ironies started to come home, that this is our government messing up badly.

On to the poll.

There was a split result in the poll, and in truth everyone won. The Liberals did discover vertabraes and they won the poll wit 43 votes, but the minority 39 voters were correct in the outcome. Harper outmanuevered the coalition (For the time being).

Those who voted for the leader....

Ain't happening DUDE won, with 34 votes, and for people who didn't know/realize.... that is HARPER, and the result matches the outcome of the brinksmanship. Congrats.

Those who voted for Dion? Trailing early, he did rise up to win the 2nd most votes here. He became leader of the coalition, before one was chosen, and you guess right that far, but he did not make it to Prime Minister.

If you saw last nights debacle.... I have to wonder what beer your drinking, and email me. I will buy some with my political welfare money, and next time I see Dion on TV, I will drink ONE beer each time he mispronounces a word. This should help me with my anger management progress.

Those Ignatieff supporters better get ready, active something and soon. I don't like Iggy, but I don't care anymore. ABD still is first and foremost.

Bob Rae, look at these results, and they will continue to convention. Put a fork in him. If he can't compete with Dion, Iggy, Duceppe and Layton, HE IS LAST, then there is no hope in hell of him becoming Liberal Leader. "And that is a good thing."

Duceppe, well, I know Alta4ever voted for him in this "Secret Poll", Ha, Ratted yah! But look at the hate being shone on Quebec right now in these forums and you will see how quickly a joke, where it was funny to vote for Duceppe, soon turned bad a few days later, when the BQ is being slagged at every turn.

Cooling off is a good thing. Meanwhile Smallc.... Pistols at noon.

Ok, that leaves Jack. One of those politicians few choose, few say good words about, and yet the press has put him in the same "evil genius" category they share for Harper. At the same time, the Press has indicated that Layton comes across as the most Prime Ministerial. Read it and weep Alta4ever But, like the votes in this poll, its not going to be a Prime Ministerial Christmas for Mr. Layton.

[fellowtraveller]

The electorate gave him a minority.

Candians chose the Tories to govern, and expect them to do just that.

Your Bloc Torontois chose themselves.

By the way, thanks for the majority, soon.

[bush_cheney2004]

Completely false. Quebec nationalism has been in a relative state of dormancy for years. Harper's current demonizing of the Bloc threatens to reignite separation sentiment there.

Your post only confirms the obvious...."Quebec nationalism" indeed.

[charter.rights]

Candians chose the Tories to govern, and expect them to do just that.

Your Bloc Torontois chose themselves.

By the way, thanks for the majority, soon.

By the way, thanks for the majority, soon.

I see you support the coalition too! Because they will be the only majority in Parliament for the next few decades......unless and until Justin Trudeau is old enough to use his family charisma to unite the left.....

[jdobbin]

Candians chose the Tories to govern, and expect them to do just that.

Actually, they elected all the MPs to represent them. The party with the most seats gets the opportunity first and in a minority, if they don't retain confidence, the next party in line can have the same opportunity.

Of course, you know that. Harper knows that. He might hate it but he has attempted such himself.

By the way, thanks for the majority, soon.

You're absolutely certain of the outcome. Bet on it last time too that he wold get a majority?

[myata]

I think Harper after all his atticks, Harper is a poisoned fruit even for his own party. I wouldn't bet on him facing another election.

[cybercoma]

He wouldn't even come close to admitting any responsibility for the crisis he has created out of nothing. Thin air plus buring unsatiable "kill 'em" instinct. I don't know what's left for him now. Is there anybody, other than his staunch partisans, who'd believe anything he has to say? Anybody who'd want to work with him in good will?

Are you kidding me? Within 48 hours the Conservative Party had changed their economic proposal. The problem here is not an unwillingness to work with the opposition parties on the part of the government. The problem here is that Stephane Dion will stop at nothing to become Prime Minister in spite of the opinion of 64% of Canadians according to the Angus/Reid poll earlier this week.

The Liberal Party and NDP do not have enough seats to make a viable coalition, so they must filter their policy through the regional Bloc Quebecois Party. The Bloc has no interest in national policy. Their entire raison d'etre is the sovereignty of Quebec. As such, any policy the Liberal/NDP coalition creates will be disproportionately slanted towards Quebec's interests in order to maintain the confidence of the house.

Instead of accepting the olive branch offered by the Conservatives through the reworking of the original proposal, the Liberal Party slapped it out of their hand and joined forces with socialists and separatists. It is Stephane Dion and Jack Layton that will stop at nothing for power. Duceppe is only interested in Quebec's place in federal politics, so his contribution to the coalition for Canadians is nil. That the Liberal Party and the NDP, with less seats than the Conservative Party, would pass everything by a regionalist party in order to gain control of the government should be appalling to Canadians.

The coalition may be completely democratic, but it is an affront to a united Canada. The Liberal and NDP have driven a wedge in Canada for no other reason than a personal hatred for Stephen Harper. The Conservative Party, by changing the original economic proposal, has shown that it is more than willing to work with the national Canadian parties. By refusing to work with the Conservative Party and getting into bed with the Bloc Quebecois to form a coalition, the Liberals and NDP have shown that they put power over the interests of Canada as a nation. All Canadians, as supporters of the Conservatives, Liberals or New Democrats, should be utterly appalled with this power-grab that will certainly tear this country to shreds.

[jdobbin]

Are you kidding me? Within 48 hours the Conservative Party had changed their economic proposal. The problem here is not an unwillingness to work with the opposition parties on the part of the government. The problem here is that Stephane Dion will stop at nothing to become Prime Minister in spite of the opinion of 64% of Canadians according to the Angus/Reid poll earlier this week.

Seems you can read that poll a number of ways. Support for the coalition, no support for Harper, no support for political financing, support for immediately stimulus.

Harper only backed away when the Liberals said no and word got out of coalition talk. Harper must have thought "Holy crap!"

The Liberal Party and NDP do not have enough seats to make a viable coalition, so they must filter their policy through the regional Bloc Quebecois Party. The Bloc has no interest in national policy. Their entire raison d'etre is the sovereignty of Quebec. As such, any policy the Liberal/NDP coalition creates will be disproportionately slanted towards Quebec's interests in order to maintain the confidence of the house.

That is up to the Governor General to decide. Once again, it seems Harper had no problem thinking about coalitions with the Bloc until now. He and Tom Flanagan wrote about it together as outlined by the media.

Instead of accepting the olive branch offered by the Conservatives through the reworking of the original proposal, the Liberal Party slapped it out of their hand and joined forces with socialists and separatists. It is Stephane Dion and Jack Layton that will stop at nothing for power. Duceppe is only interested in Quebec's place in federal politics, so his contribution to the coalition for Canadians is nil. That the Liberal Party and the NDP, with less seats than the Conservative Party, would pass everything by a regionalist party in order to gain control of the government should be appalling to Canadians.

Even the National Post says there was no olive branch. Harper is interested in destroying the Liberal party according to Gerry Nichols. It is the foremost priority. Harper will stop at nothing to do it. It is his obsession.

The coalition may be completely democratic, but it is an affront to a united Canada. The Liberal and NDP have driven a wedge in Canada for no other reason than a personal hatred for Stephen Harper. The Conservative Party, by changing the original economic proposal, has shown that it is more than willing to work with the national Canadian parties. By refusing to work with the Conservative Party and getting into bed with the Bloc Quebecois to form a coalition, the Liberals and NDP have shown that they put power over the interests of Canada as a nation. All Canadians, as supporters of the Conservatives, Liberals or New Democrats, should be utterly appalled with this power-grab that will certainly tear this country to shreds.

Once again, it was never dismissed by Harper until now. He signed a document to work with them in a coalition rather than an election. He wrote with Tom Flanagan about how it would work.

So the right should spare us their false fury.

[myata]

Are you kidding me? Within 48 hours the Conservative Party had changed their economic proposal. The

They only changed after opposition has shown that they're dead serious about getting the merry playful bunch out of their sandbox. We all have seen, on the example of the previous Parliament, how Harper cooperates and listens to others.

problem here is not an unwillingness to work with the opposition parties on the part of the government.

Well, it needs more than words to prove it. How about some act to follow?

The problem here is that Stephane Dion will stop at nothing to become Prime Minister in spite of the opinion of 64% of Canadians according to the Angus/Reid poll earlier this week.

Dion put the partisan, pointless jabs in the Harpers' economic update? Dion made him not include any serious measures on the economy there? Woo-hoo, very credible!

The Liberal Party and NDP do not have enough seats to make a viable coalition, so they must filter their policy through the regional Bloc Quebecois Party.

A lie, straight from the talking points. Drone on

, any policy the Liberal/NDP coalition creates will be disproportionately slanted towards Quebec's interests in order to maintain the confidence of the house.

Ignorant misunderstanding (or a deliberate lie) of the nature of the committment with BQ. BQ committed to refraining from raising independency issues, and voting against coalition in the confidence motions for 18 months, giving the country a breathing time to implement the economy recovery program.

Instead of accepting the olive branch offered by the Conservatives through the reworking of the original proposal,

Aaagh, that olive branch? Accusations of the conspiracy with the devil himself? You guys are so creative with your language... what if you all sat down to write some nice literature instead.. could win you a prize or two.. who knows

the Liberal Party slapped it out of their hand and joined forces with socialists and separatists.

You mean "souveraignists"? It's not the same, remember - haven't your boss told you so?

It is Stephane Dion and Jack Layton that will stop at nothing for power.

While Mr Harper is the spirit of democracy herself, incarnate. With one hand, he grants confidence motions; then, begs Governor General to take it away for him; he creates fixed election dates... only, not for himself, of course.... he's high on guard against those devilish se... souveraignists... when he isn't seeking an understanding with them to prop him up. Our poster boy!

The coalition may be completely democratic, but it is an affront to a united Canada.

Only because Mr Harper says so... now. In other times, he seemed more forthcoming toward those who now threaten that "united Canada".

The Liberal and NDP have driven a wedge in Canada for no other reason than a personal hatred for Stephen Harper.

That must be, by unleashing a wild campaign to brand Mr Harper's Conservatives "federalists from hell" or like? Last time you took your nap.

The Conservative Party, by changing the original economic proposal, has shown that it is more than willing to work with the national Canadian parties.

And what have they shown by putting blatantly partisan, completely unwarranted proposals, which had no chance of passing through the House, there in the first place?

By refusing to work with the Conservative Party and getting into bed with the Bloc Quebecois to form a coalition, the Liberals and NDP have shown that they put power over the interests of Canada as a nation.

And what is it you think you're doing now? Why does it look like "driving the wedge"? Quebecers who voted for BQ have the same passport as you and I, and have the same right to be represented in the Parliament by whoever they choose. No? Teach me about democracy.

All Canadians, as supporters of the Conservatives, Liberals or New Democrats, should be utterly appalled with this power-grab that will certainly tear this country to shreds.

No, supporters of Liberals and New Democrats, etc, should instead fully support Mr Harper and his government in their little nasty power games at the time when the country above all else needs concerted, responsible, non partisan action. Grant him his all but foresaken majority on a golden plate, and see what happens. If this affair could serve as a bit of a foretelling of the things to come. Keep dreaming.

[cybercoma]

Seems you can read that poll a number of ways. Support for the coalition, no support for Harper, no support for political financing, support for immediately stimulus.

A lot of it was contradictory, but the poll, much like the election, emphatically showed that Canadians do NOT want Dion as PM.

Harper only backed away when the Liberals said no and word got out of coalition talk. Harper must have thought "Holy crap!"

The economic plan was completely changed within 48 hours. That there was a coalition formed so quickly is indicative of the opposition's unwillingness to co-operate with the Conservative party because they are more concerned with getting a hold of the reigns.

That is up to the Governor General to decide. Once again, it seems Harper had no problem thinking about coalitions with the Bloc until now. He and Tom Flanagan wrote about it together as outlined by the media.

That's completely false. Voting the same as the Bloc to bring down the government and go to the polls is entirely different than selling out the interests of Canadians to the sovereignty party of Quebec.

Even the National Post says there was no olive branch. Harper is interested in destroying the Liberal party according to Gerry Nichols. It is the foremost priority. Harper will stop at nothing to do it. It is his obsession.

Gerry Nichols is certainly entitled to his opinions about the motivations of Stephen Harper; meanwhile, in realty, the Conservative Party adjusted it's economic plan upon objections from the opposition parties. Olive branch.

Once again, it was never dismissed by Harper until now. He signed a document to work with them in a coalition rather than an election. He wrote with Tom Flanagan about how it would work.

So the right should spare us their false fury.

It's pretty dishonest to compare the current situation with the Bloc and Conservatives voting to bring down the Liberal government at that time. Another tactic that I've been hearing that you may want to trot out is that the Bloc voted for Conservative policy, so technically the Bloc has been working in a coalition with the Conservatives for their entire time in office.

The Conservative Party never has and never will form a coalition with separatists whose intent is to tear the country apart. Their entitled to have their place in the House of Commons and vote as they see fit; however, unlike the Liberals and New Democrats, the Conservatives have never formed a coalition with them.

Should the Liberals and NDP go the route of saying that the Bloc is not part of the coalition, then the Governor General should deny their request to form government as their coalition will not hold enough seats to form a stable majority government.

[Argus]

The electorate gave him a minority. In our system that requires confidence to operate. How has Harper tried to instill confidence in Parliament?

Well now he has seven weeks to try and gain the confidence of... what, seven people over on the opposition side? Isn't he 14 shy of a majority? That means he needs 7 guys to change their vote, or 14 people to stay home, or some mathematical combination of the above. Some Liberals appear to be wavering already.

If a runaway bus rolls over a bunch of blockheads on their way back from lunch we'll know who sent it. :-)

[myata]

For once, I'd agree with Argus. This would be a perfect credibility test for Mr Harper. He has five weeks to find a dozen or so of opposition MPs who would trust him now, after all the havoc he's created. The clock has started.

[madmax]

The Conservative Party never has and never will form a coalition with separatists whose intent is to tear the country apart. Their entitled to have their place in the House of Commons and vote as they see fit; however, unlike the Liberals and New Democrats, the Conservatives have never formed a coalition with them.

The LPC and NDP do not have a "coalition" with the BQ.

Should the Liberals and NDP go the route of saying that the Bloc is not part of the coalition, then the Governor General should deny their request to form government as their coalition will not hold enough seats to form a stable majority government.

The CPC do not have enough seats to forma "Stable minority government" which is why the GG granted Prime Minister Harper a Prorogue until Jan 29th.

The LPC and NDP do not have more seats then the CPC. The CPC rely upon the BQ much like the Coalition. Either party receiving support of the BQ has majority control and will pass legislation.

Of course, I know you know this, you just want to continue a false myth.

[cybercoma]

The point is that the NDP/Liberal coalition is not any more stable than the Conservative Party alone as the Coalition holds less seats than the Conservatives and is inherently unstable due to ideological differences. If we're at a point in history where Canada is to be governed by whomever the Bloc Quebecois alleges they will support, then God bless Canada because it is on its deathbed.

[Alta4ever]

The point is that the NDP/Liberal coalition is not any more stable than the Conservative Party alone as the Coalition holds less seats than the Conservatives and is inherently unstable due to ideological differences. If we're at a point in history where Canada is to be governed by whomever the Bloc Quebecois alleges they will support, then God bless Canada because it is on its deathbed.

Here, Here!

[ToadBrother]

The point is that the NDP/Liberal coalition is not any more stable than the Conservative Party alone as the Coalition holds less seats than the Conservatives and is inherently unstable due to ideological differences. If we're at a point in history where Canada is to be governed by whomever the Bloc Quebecois alleges they will support, then God bless Canada because it is on its deathbed.

The Bloc is like a beautiful hooker, no one wants to admit they're sleeping with her, and yet every time you turn around, somebody is trying to get up her skirt.

Edited December 5, 2008 by ToadBrother

[BC_chick]

The Bloc is like a beautiful hooker, no one wants to admit they're sleeping with her, and yet every time you turn around, somebody is trying to get up her skirt.

Hmmm, I'm working away in another window and every time I come around there seems to be another Canadian politics analogy.

Alright, about the beautiful hooker.... why exactly are we unwilling to admit it? Are we embarrassed about the fact that we're paying for sex... or the fact that she's charging way too much for the service and yet we hand it over no questions asked?