kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Piracy has been in the news as of late, and the western world really needs all the help that it can get--even if it means recommissioning WWII-era naval vessels such as the USS Missouri. Should the USS Missouri be recommissioned for one last mission? http://www.ussmissouri.com/ Quote
Smallc Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 It would be almost completely useless. Quote
kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Posted November 24, 2008 It would be almost completely useless. Well, they did use it up until about 1992... Quote
Smallc Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Well, they did use it up until about 1992... Its not 1992 though. Quote
kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Posted November 24, 2008 Its not 1992 though. No, but it's not all that long ago really. If it still floats, why not? They're only pirates in little speed boats and old trawlers... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) No, but it's not all that long ago really. If it still floats, why not? They're only pirates in little speed boats and old trawlers... Canada cannot recommission the USS Missouri. Would violate NAFTA...LOL! Edited November 24, 2008 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Posted November 24, 2008 Canada cannot recommission the USS Missouri. Would violate NAFTA...LOL! Evidently you don't know the treaty that well. There's a provision for the recommisioning of another treaty member's decommissioned naval vessels in times of need. This is such a time. And which is why I'm currently steaming up the Grand in the USS Missouri as we speak... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Evidently you don't know the treaty that well. There's a provision for the recommisioning of another treaty member's decommissioned naval vessels in times of need. This is such a time. And which is why I'm currently steaming up the Grand in the USS Missouri as we speak... Guess again....the USS Missouri is now a museum about 500 yards from the Arizona Memorial at Pearl. If you are going to entertain fantasy about stricken US Navy warships, there are better candidates. Dream on...... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Posted November 24, 2008 Guess again....the USS Missouri is now a museum about 500 yards from the Arizona Memorial at Pearl. If you are going to entertain fantasy about stricken US Navy warships, there are better candidates. Dream on...... That would be a replica that I'd worked on for the last decade. Unfortunately, I had limited funds and lacked all of the necessary materials, so it is only 1/2 scale and mostly made out of aluminum foil and balsa wood. Hope nobody notices (seeing that most of the visitors will be Americans, I doubt it...). So, as I said, I'm currently on the Grand in the real USS Missouri... Quote
charter.rights Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 That would be a replica that I'd worked on for the last decade. Unfortunately, I had limited funds and lacked all of the necessary materials, so it is only 1/2 scale and mostly made out of aluminum foil and balsa wood. Hope nobody notices (seeing that most of the visitors will be Americans, I doubt it...). So, as I said, I'm currently on the Grand in the real USS Missouri... From what I hear you might be up the creek without a paddle. But maybe if you begged a little someone might fund-raise for you. I hear that is something you do well. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Alta4ever Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Piracy has been in the news as of late, and the western world really needs all the help that it can get--even if it means recommissioning WWII-era naval vessels such as the USS Missouri. Should the USS Missouri be recommissioned for one last mission?http://www.ussmissouri.com/ Why would you re commision a battleship to combat pirates? What would be needed are marines tavelling on board merchant vessels. Maybe even armed merchant vessels with a few naval men to man the weapons. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Guess again....the USS Missouri is now a museum about 500 yards from the Arizona Memorial at Pearl. If you are going to entertain fantasy about stricken US Navy warships, there are better candidates. Dream on...... Wasn't the missouri a museum before it was recommisioned the last time. I also beleive the last recommisioning was done because the US navy was wearing out its crusiers and needed "low" mileage boats while new crusiers were constructed and old one re-fitted? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Posted November 24, 2008 Wasn't the missouri a museum before it was recommisioned the last time. I also beleive the last recommisioning was done because the US navy was wearing out its crusiers and needed "low" mileage boats while new crusiers were constructed and old one re-fitted? No, the Missouri was moored at Bremerton as reserve berthing, and welcomed visitors like any other ship. It was not stricken from the register until 1995, and was donated for the Honolulu museum project in 1998. The Iowa class battleships were recommissioned as part of President Reagan's "600 Ship Navy", largely to bring shore bombardment assets on line and later TLAM vertical launcher platforms for land attack missions beyond main battery range. It was a faster, albeit expensive way to challenge the Soviet Union and meet commitments around the world with capital ships (e.g. Lebanon). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kengs333 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Posted November 24, 2008 No, the Missouri was moored at Bremerton as reserve berthing, and welcomed visitors like any other ship. It was not stricken from the register until 1995, and was donated for the Honolulu museum project in 1998.The Iowa class battleships were recommissioned as part of President Reagan's "600 Ship Navy", largely to bring shore bombardment assets on line and later TLAM vertical launcher platforms for land attack missions beyond main battery range. It was a faster, albeit expensive way to challenge the Soviet Union and meet commitments around the world with capital ships (e.g. Lebanon). I'll tell you, though, she still runs as smoothly as she did back in '44... One'd be inclined to think that she was Made in Japan, but I guess the fact that the States was at war with them at the time she was built kinda rules that out, eh... (or does it? ) Quote
kimmy Posted November 25, 2008 Report Posted November 25, 2008 The USS Missouri was the star of the movie "Under Seige" (which guest starred Tommy Lee Jones, Stephen Segal, and Erika Eleniak as I recall) and has a certain charisma that just conveys a message. (That message is, basically, "mess with us, and it's going to be raining 2-ton shells up in your area.") Outdated or not, it would undoubtedly cause an outbreak of soiled pants among any pirates who encountered it. And there's the rub, because one boat on a very large expanse of water can only do so much. If you were to recommission an old warship to deal with piracy, you wouldn't pick the Missouri, you'd pick the Saratoga or Kitty Hawk and have a wing of radio/reconnaissance aircraft in the air full-time looking for any ships on suspicious courses and listening for distress calls from shipping vessels being pursued. And when you find what you're looking for, you could have attack planes there (anywhere!) in under an hour, if your carrier is at a nice central location. I expect that attack planes showing up unexpectedly and bombing pirate ships to oblivion would have a drastic effect on the amount of piracy in the region. However, I think that the amount of piracy would also be substantially reduced if pirates started turning up dead in the streets of Eyl, or if their ships just started exploding mysteriously in the harbour. I think this sort of thing would probably be fairly simple and cost-effective. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Wilber Posted November 25, 2008 Report Posted November 25, 2008 The Missouri to combat pirates? Sounds like nuking a gnat to me. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2008 Report Posted November 25, 2008 .... Outdated or not, it would undoubtedly cause an outbreak of soiled pants among any pirates who encountered it. And there's the rub, because one boat on a very large expanse of water can only do so much. The soiled pants effect was less than spectacular in Lebanon. Directed attack munitions are far more accurate. Leave the Iowa class battleships to the movies. If you were to recommission an old warship to deal with piracy, you wouldn't pick the Missouri, you'd pick the Saratoga or Kitty Hawk and have a wing of radio/reconnaissance aircraft in the air full-time looking for any ships on suspicious courses and listening for distress calls from shipping vessels being pursued. And when you find what you're looking for, you could have attack planes there (anywhere!) in under an hour, if your carrier is at a nice central location. Do you think the pirates are dumber than drug runners in the Carib or Gulf of Mexico? I expect that attack planes showing up unexpectedly and bombing pirate ships to oblivion would have a drastic effect on the amount of piracy in the region. It is very difficult to deploy ordnance against a small, fast moving vessel. However, I think that the amount of piracy would also be substantially reduced if pirates started turning up dead in the streets of Eyl, or if their ships just started exploding mysteriously in the harbour. I think this sort of thing would probably be fairly simple and cost-effective. -k We've already seen this movie too....not very pretty. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted November 25, 2008 Report Posted November 25, 2008 The soiled pants effect was less than spectacular in Lebanon. Directed attack munitions are far more accurate.Leave the Iowa class battleships to the movies. Do you think the pirates are dumber than drug runners in the Carib or Gulf of Mexico? It is very difficult to deploy ordnance against a small, fast moving vessel. We've already seen this movie too....not very pretty. Difficult to deploy ordnance against a small , fast moving vessel..I think not. It's not like lining up a two ton cannon and packing it with black powder and lining it up - hoping a wave does not toss the sighting off. Naval vessels are all obsolete..with high tech guidance system nothing survives these days - Russia has a torpedo that travels hundreds of miles an hour - how you going to stop that? Quote
Army Guy Posted November 25, 2008 Report Posted November 25, 2008 Kimmy, first fighter aircraft now naval ships...you sure your a girl, and where were you when i was single.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Ontario Loyalist Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 Kimmy, first fighter aircraft now naval ships...you sure your a girl, and where were you when i was single.... If she wasn't, would it make a difference? Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
Ontario Loyalist Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 The USS Missouri was the star of the movie "Under Seige" (which guest starred Tommy Lee Jones, Stephen Segal, and Erika Eleniak as I recall) and has a certain charisma that just conveys a message. Very difficult to work with, I heard... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 Difficult to deploy ordnance against a small , fast moving vessel..I think not. It's not like lining up a two ton cannon and packing it with black powder and lining it up - hoping a wave does not toss the sighting off. Naval vessels are all obsolete..with high tech guidance system nothing survives these days - Russia has a torpedo that travels hundreds of miles an hour - how you going to stop that? Sorry, I don't think you have lived it. Size, speed, traffic density, radar limitations, etc. make it harder than you think. Detecting and targeting a RIB (rigid inflatable boat) at night with any kind of sea state is not easy. Russia's Schval is very fast....and very blind at such speeds. The Russians are very good at sinking themselves. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 Sorry, I don't think you have lived it. Size, speed, traffic density, radar limitations, etc. make it harder than you think. Detecting and targeting a RIB (rigid inflatable boat) at night with any kind of sea state is not easy. Russia's Schval is very fast....and very blind at such speeds. The Russians are very good at sinking themselves. Hey subs don't count!....not just inflatable boats are hard to detect - A well trained free diver carrying plastic explosive can take out an air craft carrier....maybe we should just pay our enemies - it's cheaper - but not as much fun I suppose.. I have cluttered up the board enough today..*I thank the people here for letting me uselessly rant and vent - I sincerly hope I have not harmed the order here...better do something usefull today - maybe get a hair cut.. "Russian Schval"? You are a bit to informed ...My dad used to marvel back in the early 40's at the Katosha rockets - the was impressed - must have been the boy in him.. Quote
kimmy Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) It is very difficult to deploy ordnance against a small, fast moving vessel. How small and fast moving are we talking about? I could certainly imagine pirates using speedboats of various sorts for attacks on vessels near coastlines, in rivers and lakes, and so on, these attacks are occurring far out at sea. The Sirius Star was 450 miles from shore when it was captured. That would seem an unlikely distance for speedboats even if they knew exactly where to be to intercept the tanker. This article shows a photograph of a pirate speedboat, showing room in the boat for little more than the 6 men and their weapons. This article shows 3 more of the same sort. Tiny, open boats with no storage capacity. They simply can't be carrying much fuel, and these things are not very fuel efficient. That vessels such as this could attack ships hundreds of miles out at sea is highly improbable. The recent account of the Indian Navy vessel's battle with pirates indicated that the suspect vessel was a fishing trawler, and that after the Indian Navy engaged the ship some of the pirates attempted to escape in speedboats. This article contains a photo of a pirate vessel seized by the Royal Navy, seen towing a boat (I assume the inflatable craft are Royal Navy boarding parties). The model seems to seems to be of a "mothership", a fishing trawler or merchant vessel, towing a number of speedboats which the pirates use only when they're ready to attack. Speedboats might be a challenging target for an aircraft, but fishing trawlers and merchant vessels would be sitting ducks. Do you think the pirates are dumber than drug runners in the Carib or Gulf of Mexico? I think they have different objectives, different modes of operation, and therefore would be confronted in different ways. We've already seen this movie too....not very pretty. I thought you of all people would like the potential of this idea. I'm not talking about an occupation or a police-action or "peacekeeping" as Canadians might call it... I'm talking about simply causing people to die and their boats to sink, without actually officially doing or saying anything. If pirates started turning up dead, and their boats started sinking... what are they going to do, call the police? The United States position on the matter could be "hey, man, wasn't us." Kimmy, first fighter aircraft now naval ships...you sure your a girl, and where were you when i was single.... Unfortunately, I have to give Wikipedia all the credit for this one. "It's wet" is about the extent of my naval knowledge. -k Edited November 26, 2008 by kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
M.Dancer Posted November 26, 2008 Report Posted November 26, 2008 The model seems to seems to be of a "mothership", a fishing trawler or merchant vessel, towing a number of speedboats which the pirates use only when they're ready to attack. Speedboats might be a challenging target for an aircraft, but fishing trawlers and merchant vessels would be sitting ducks. And a danger for collateral damage i'm afraid. But no need to stop stopping and searching...find weapons? Sink the boat. The Pirates? Arghh...shark bait... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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