Canadian Political Polls

Mr.Canada · December 10, 2008

Indeed....and the unions keep losing although they keep trying.
http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/sto...8f-543fdb2138aa

The thing is, the workers for the most part at Toyota's Cambridge plant have good working conditions good pay and responsive management. All they need do is compare their lot with their unionized breathren in Oakville, Windsor or Oshawa.

Yep, I fully agree with you here Dancer. Unions are useful if one doesn't have good working conditions. If they do then a union will only cause problems and then the relationship between worker and management will break down. Trust me I've seen it many times.

I work for the same union that Hoffa started so I say this with some experience in organizing as I get paid to do just that. Probably why a lot of my posts are full of rhetoric but I'm working on not doing that here anymore. Not as much at least.

blueblood · December 10, 2008

Yep, I fully agree with you here Dancer. Unions are useful if one doesn't have good working conditions. If they do then a union will only cause problems and then the relationship between worker and management will break down. Trust me I've seen it many times.
I work for the same union that Hoffa started so I say this with some experience in organizing as I get paid to do just that. Probably why a lot of my posts are full of rhetoric but I'm working on not doing that here anymore. Not as much at least.

Unions are useless and completely unnecessary in today's work envirnonment. The threat of a union is good enough. Unions today place unnecessary costs on business and are pure evil.

Mr.Canada · December 10, 2008

Unions are useless and completely unnecessary in today's work envirnonment. The threat of a union is good enough. Unions today place unnecessary costs on business and are pure evil.

Pure evil? What do you base this position on?

Unions raise wages across the board for the whole country because as unionized employees get higher wages the minimum wage must follow suit. Everyone benefits.

Before Hoffa, workers were paid next to nothing because they stood alone and had limited bargaining power but united they can hold a companies feet to the fire. This is because the worker is the workforce and without them the companies make no money at all.

All unions are not equal and some wield more power than others and some wield too much power. Unions in and of itself are a good thing but sometimes their applications leave something to be desired.

normanchateau · December 10, 2008

If the December 9, 2008 Angus-Reid data hold up in subsequent polls, Ignatieff will pull votes away from Conservatives, NDP and Green voters.
"If a federal election were held tomorrow, which one of the following parties would you be most likely to support in your constituency?"

With Dion as Liberal leader:

Conservative 42%

Liberal 22%

NDP 18%

BQ 10%

Green 7%

Other 1%

With Ignatieff as Liberal leader:

Conservatives 38%

Liberals 33%

NDP 13%

BQ 10%

Green 6%

Other 1%

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/32387...rals_in_canada/

Harper's blunder was the best Christmas gift he could have given the Liberals, advancing by five months the time, money, infighting and effort it would have taken for the Liberals to give the leadership inevitably to Ignatieff.

Perhaps it was the second best Christmas gift. The best was Harper remaining on as leader. :lol:

ToadBrother · December 10, 2008

Unions are useless and completely unnecessary in today's work envirnonment. The threat of a union is good enough.

If the threat can't be carried out, what's the point?

Unions today place unnecessary costs on business and are pure evil.

And businesses frequently abuse employees. I'd be all for abolishing unions, if that was accompanied with jail time and business-destroying fines for labor law infractions.

Vancouver King · December 10, 2008

Harper's blunder was the best Christmas gift he could have given the Liberals, advancing by five months the time, money, infighting and effort it would have taken for the Liberals to give the leadership inevitably to Ignatieff.

Also, only one combatant remains of the two that brought the public's blood to a boil. Even Tory supporters admitted there was much blame to go around, beginning with Harper's toxic economic update.

Iggy's first move as leader - keeping all his options open at the end of January - is a measured response to Harper's latest entreaty of co-operation, while insisting that the immediate issue is one of trust, or lack of it in our govt in hiding.

Tories are going to miss Dion as a political patsy.

blueblood · December 10, 2008

If the threat can't be carried out, what's the point?
And businesses frequently abuse employees. I'd be all for abolishing unions, if that was accompanied with jail time and business-destroying fines for labor law infractions.

Previous history of unions. The mere threat of them is scary enough now. Look at Wal-mart.

How do business's abuse employees, by not paying them CAW wages? Yes lets screw over job creating businesses! :rolleyes:

ToadBrother · December 11, 2008

Previous history of unions. The mere threat of them is scary enough now. Look at Wal-mart.

Yes, but if you can't actually form one, then it's an empty threat.

How do business's abuse employees, by not paying them CAW wages? Yes lets screw over job creating businesses!

During my years doing payroll for companies, the abuses were enormous. During part of that time, they even got away with a lot of it because the area I lived in was economically depressed. I've seen people not paid overtime, being required to come in a half an hour before a shift and stay fifteen minutes afterwards without pay. I've seen people put on call without pay. I've seen people not paid appropriately for working stats. I've seen people required to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime. I've seen people simply fired or had their hours cut back so the boss's son/daughter/relative/buddy could get more time. I've seen people dismissed without cause or on trumped up allegations, and not paid severance. I've seen people who didn't get paid regularly. About the only thing at times that stopped some of these guys was Revenue Canada figuring out that being an abusive employer often also meant being a tax cheat, not that these guys having to write cheques for deductions they never bothered to forward to the government ever did the employees much good.

You seem to live in this silly world where employers have these unlimited rights, and any employee or group of employees that decides they want a better shake is somehow screwing the employer, and hence the world over. Yes, unions can get out of control, and they can make an industry top-heavy with wage costs. But I've seen crooked employers who would screw their employees.

And as to Walmart, their general response has been to basically threaten, harass and if nothing else works shut down stores rather than see a union in place. They have no problem making vast profits on the backs of their employees, but view any move by the employees to get some share of those profits as an evil.

There's always a balance to be struck, but banning unions without some other way for employees to seek fair pay and benefits is ludicrous. LIke I said, I'll gladly see unions gone if the law makes breaking labor codes so horrifically expensive for companies and management that they are forced to deal fairly.

Of course, do you really want governments getting involved in labor-management in the private sector?

Edited December 11, 2008 by ToadBrother

White Doors · December 11, 2008

Tories are going to miss Dion as a political patsy.

I miss him already

normanchateau · December 11, 2008

Iggy's first move as leader - keeping all his options open at the end of January - is a measured response to Harper's latest entreaty of co-operation, while insisting that the immediate issue is one of trust, or lack of it in our govt in hiding.

Ignatieff will create cognitive dissonance among Conservative supporters. What are they to make of his support for the invasion of Iraq? What are they to make of his being one of the few Liberal MPs to support Harper's 2006 motion to extend the war in Afghanistan from 2007 to 2009? Will these now become negatives in the minds of Harperites or evidence that he's the most sinister kind of left-winger, one who disguises himself as a right-winger.

Will they now try to link Ignatieff to Bush and the Republicans? Will they argue that with Obama in the White House, Canada needs a "moderate" like Harper as Prime Minister and not a Prime Minister like Ignatieff who supported the military policies of George Bush?

Vancouver King · December 12, 2008

Sobering news for coalition supporters and those assuming a bump for the new Liberal leader.

Ipsos-Reid poll for Canwest News Service and Global National.

"The poll also said the Conservative party would garner 45 per cent of the vote and score a majority victory if an election were held today."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...html?id=1069355

punked · December 12, 2008

Sobering news for coalition supporters and those assuming a bump for the new Liberal leader.
Ipsos-Reid poll for Canwest News Service and Global National.

"The poll also said the Conservative party would garner 45 per cent of the vote and score a majority victory if an election were held today."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...html?id=1069355

Polls dont count as long as we don't have a government

ToadBrother · December 12, 2008

Polls dont count as long as we don't have a government

As Winston Churchill once observed, dogs know the true value of polls.

Alta4ever · December 12, 2008

Polls dont count as long as we don't have a government

Maybe you should heed what Canadians are telling you about a coalition.

ToadBrother · December 12, 2008

Maybe you should heed what Canadians are telling you about a coalition.

And maybe the Conservatives should heed the only poll that counts, the one in October that clearly gave the Conservatives a government with a short leash.

punked · December 12, 2008

Maybe we could wait until we have some sort of government to decide who is the best there is. Harper is in a big No win with this auto bail out right now I think.

Smallc · December 13, 2008

Most people barely even know who Ignatieff is right now. This poll is rather useless.

democrassy · December 13, 2008

Most people barely even know who Ignatieff is right now. This poll is rather useless.

Things are too fluid

Harper et. al. probably won initial salvo but much remains to be seen re: this story

Polls are inconsequential at this point

Vancouver King · December 14, 2008

New Angus Reid poll for the Star. This reflects a different picture than the Ipsos Reid sounding above. Ignatieff ties Harper as best man for PM.

"Newly appointed Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff is in a virtual tie with prime minister Stephen Harper as the person Canadians think would be best to lead the country, ..."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/553317

punked · December 14, 2008

New Angus Reid poll for the Star. This reflects a different picture than the Ipsos Reid sounding above. Ignatieff ties Harper as best man for PM.
"Newly appointed Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff is in a virtual tie with prime minister Stephen Harper as the person Canadians think would be best to lead the country, ..."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/553317

These polls mean nothing as well, we don't vote for the PM no matter what anyone says.

Jerry J. Fortin · December 14, 2008

A poll showing a Liberal that few citizens know anything about being tied with Harper as best choice for a leader has cause for concern to any thinking citizen.

August1991 · December 14, 2008

These are the key paragraphs from the Ispsos-Reid poll:

The survey results said the Liberals have not improved their electoral prospects - so far - by picking Ignatieff earlier this week to replace the unpopular Stephane Dion. Those surveyed favoured the Conservatives over the Liberals by 45 per cent to 26 per cent when no leaders' names were mentioned. The 19-point gap was repeated when the question was rephrased to name Ignatieff. The New Democrats trailed at 12 per cent and the Green party came in at seven per cent. The Bloc scored 39 per cent in Quebec, and 10 per cent nationally.
...

The poll, conducted Tuesday through Thursday, was based on telephone interviews with 1,001 adults. In a sampling that size, results are considered to be accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times in 20.

This means the poll was taken as the Liberals were figuring out who their interim leader would be.

The next polls will be far more meaningful.

The survey also shows the Liberals rise to 31 per cent in voting intentions – an increase of nine percentage points since earlier this month, and the Conservatives drop five percentage points to 37 per cent in the same period.
The NDP was the choice of 15 per cent of respondents – down three percentage points – the Bloc down one percentage point to 9 per cent and the Greens up one percentage point to 8 per cent.

...

The online survey polled a representative national sample of 1,004 randomly selected adult Canadians from Dec. 11 to 12. Percentage point changes are compared to polls conducted Dec. 5 and 6.

Toronto Star

The Angus-Reid poll was done on Thursday-Friday.

I still think these polls are too early. We won't know how Canadians think until next week.

Edited December 14, 2008 by August1991

Jerry J. Fortin · December 14, 2008

After Christmas, and after the economy comes completed unglued then Canadians will start looking for answers. Until then, very few will give a damn.

August1991 · December 14, 2008

After Christmas, and after the economy comes completed unglued then Canadians will start looking for answers. Until then, very few will give a damn.

I think we'll know before Christmas. These two polls were conducted in the midst of changes in Liberal leadership. Ignatieff is now the leader and so the polls conducted around now or early next week will give a good idea of what Liberal support will be. I am particularly anxious to see the regional breakdown since I suspect that Ignatieff will do well in Quebec.

punked · December 14, 2008

I think we'll know before Christmas. These two polls were conducted in the midst of changes in Liberal leadership. Ignatieff is now the leader and so the polls conducted around now or early next week will give a good idea of what Liberal support will be. I am particularly anxious to see the regional breakdown since I suspect that Ignatieff will do well in Quebec.

The internals of this poll have a regional break down. Quebec is Huge and so is BC for the Libs.

http://www.angus-reid.com/uppdf/2008.12.13_FederalScene.pdf