American Facism Continues.

[Mr.Canada]

A simple definition of Facism is a one party system without competators, resistance or oppostion of any sort. What we see at this point in America are the last dying and desperate attempts to maintain Facism though a new front man - who now is in the midst of appointing and incorporating supposed republicans to his "team" - These appointments defy the definition of a two party system - How on earth can any rational person look at Obama seriously when he is now about to hand out plumb appointments to the Clintons who are a prime example of modernist Trotskites of great greed and ambition.

You would think that there would be a seperation of church and state - and in this instance a seperation of parties. There clearly is no seperation of church and state as we saw with Bush who pleaded religiouslity to gain votes but showed no evidence of being a religious man - and you would think there would be a seperation of parties - apparently there is none - so seeing that America for the last 30 years has in effect been run buy a new kind of National Socialism...under the guise of democracy....looks like the old Nazi party is alive and well and still using the tradional secularist Jews in the media to decieve and enthrawl the dumbed down Yanks - who really never will understand that they are not free. How do you translate this new but old order taking place south of the boarder and to some extent here in Canada?

So in your world view you equate American policy to the Holocaust? Hrm...ok

[Mortui]

When leaders conspire to create equality though socialism..those leaders who proclaim that "we are all one and equal" due to human nature all turn out to be liars...Even within the old soviet system - an upperclass of demi-gods always forms - always.....For instance - communist or socialist idealist don't have any money - In order to launch a cause, that agenda must be financed..capitalist have always finance socialism and communism...It creates massive cheap labour - It was the British East Indian Trading Company that destroy the future leadership of old China with opium...Opium was used by the inquisitive and the bright young people - The eventually perished weakening the genetic leadership pool. This opened the door to communism ...whether this was done with planned intent is not at issue - it happened none the less! Now China is a huge labour camp and capitalist benefit - they funded the damn place - Chairman Mao needed guns - who do you think brought in the weapons to take over the place - capitalists...who else?

The communits party in China was definitely NOT funded by capitalists-the US especially. The US funded the Nationalist party in China. The Communist party gained power through resistance to the Nationalist government in China. The Nationalists came to power through resistance to the British because of the Opium Wars.

In the last 10 years the US has become more friendly with China and become immensely interested in the Chinese labor force.

Quick question. Have you heard of the Red Scare?

[Oleg Bach]

The communits party in China was definitely NOT funded by capitalists-the US especially. The US funded the Nationalist party in China. The Communist party gained power through resistance to the Nationalist government in China. The Nationalists came to power through resistance to the British because of the Opium Wars.

In the last 10 years the US has become more friendly with China and become immensely interested in the Chinese labor force.

Quick question. Have you heard of the Red Scare?

I am the Red Scare or is that scar - when I write I am actually asking a question - sure glad you got my education for me - Thanks

[Oleg Bach]

Small addition... thank you. Left and right are for mass consumption. What I see is the real power sits in the middle and controls both the right and left hand of the political beast. The one party system has always been around and it is Facism for lack of a better term. Look at the way the new Obama administration is structuring itself - they are gathering forces from both sides - Look at the partnerships that exist between Bush senior and Bill Clinton. There arrangement was not as charitable as it appeared - it was buisness. Left right politics causes the public mind to vacilate and in that vacilation comes the blinding blur that allow the middle top to operate unseen - please no tin foil hat jokes. Even if these arrangements are unconscious it does not matter - the results is Facism...and who ever said that dictatorship was a bad thing anyway....democracy is mod rule and people if set free can cause chaos.

[moderateamericain]

Oleg, The reason for the American Auto Industries Fall is our own. Its a combination of weak management, over bloated salaries, Unions asking for outrageous wages, and not keeping up with the demands of the citizens of the US. Ill give you a prime example, Take the most basic cars in Ford and Honda's Arsenal. The Honda Fit for the same price as the basic ford comes fully loaded. One thing you said is we are not a democracy. Your right. We were founded as a Republic. The problem that has occurred is Government getting into bed with Business and Political Parties getting into bed with each other. And your also said we have gone money crazy. I agree. We have traded in are values for economics. The end justifies the means. A mans work no longer has value unless it can be taken from him by force. I'm a life long believer in a man has a right to earn a living. But he cannot demand it. He has to work for it. I don't condemn men who earned wealth but I do condemn those who earned there wealth through shady means or those who scream they deserve something that they did not earn. Put your own meal on the table.

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg, The reason for the American Auto Industries Fall is our own. Its a combination of weak management, over bloated salaries, Unions asking for outrageous wages, and not keeping up with the demands of the citizens of the US. Ill give you a prime example, Take the most basic cars in Ford and Honda's Arsenal. The Honda Fit for the same price as the basic ford comes fully loaded. One thing you said is we are not a democracy. Your right. We were founded as a Republic. The problem that has occurred is Government getting into bed with Business and Political Parties getting into bed with each other. And your also said we have gone money crazy. I agree. We have traded in are values for economics. The end justifies the means. A mans work no longer has value unless it can be taken from him by force. I'm a life long believer in a man has a right to earn a living. But he cannot demand it. He has to work for it. I don't condemn men who earned wealth but I do condemn those who earned there wealth through shady means or those who scream they deserve something that they did not earn. Put your own meal on the table.

Don't worry, I water my own garden and eat from it. I agree with you full in what you have just stated - but - and I will always stick my butt in the face of the proud. There are persons who are responsible for the very first trade deals and those delegates that were originally sent to Japan and China were deployed by those that knew they would prosper with through cheap labour and on a deal that said - "We will open up our domestic markets to you and you will have full authority on our turf to profit" - That's what irks me - It does not matter if a Ford is not as good as a Toyota - It was good enough! Deals were made that in time incrimentally destroyed our industry - all so a few men that were corporate traitors to their own tribe - to the nation that granted them wealth...where was the familiar loyalty?

[Mortui]

I am the Red Scare or is that scar - when I write I am actually asking a question - sure glad you got my education for me - Thanks

Sorry, must have missed your question there? I figured I should help you out so you didn't make another uneducated post.

[Mortui]

Small addition... thank you. Left and right are for mass consumption. What I see is the real power sits in the middle and controls both the right and left hand of the political beast. The one party system has always been around and it is Facism for lack of a better term. Look at the way the new Obama administration is structuring itself - they are gathering forces from both sides - Look at the partnerships that exist between Bush senior and Bill Clinton. There arrangement was not as charitable as it appeared - it was buisness. Left right politics causes the public mind to vacilate and in that vacilation comes the blinding blur that allow the middle top to operate unseen - please no tin foil hat jokes. Even if these arrangements are unconscious it does not matter - the results is Facism...and who ever said that dictatorship was a bad thing anyway....democracy is mod rule and people if set free can cause chaos.

party system has always been around"

Let's see what you have to say about that.

they are gathering forces from both sides

Huh?

Another history lesson for you. The two party system developed under George Washington. The Federalists and the Antifederalists. With Jefferson it became Democrat-Republicans and Federalists. Then Jacksonian Democrats and Whigs. After that it became Republicans and Democrats. There are also numerous other political parties.

Let's be clear. Bi-partisanship is exactly that. Bi. That means two.

[Oleg Bach]

Let's see what you have to say about that.

Huh?

Another history lesson for you. The two party system developed under George Washington. The Federalists and the Antifederalists. With Jefferson it became Democrat-Republicans and Federalists. Then Jacksonian Democrats and Whigs. After that it became Republicans and Democrats. There are also numerous other political parties.

Let's be clear. Bi-partisanship is exactly that. Bi. That means two.

How can there be two when each side is motivated by the same goal..Personal power and the accumulation of more wealth for themselves -friends and family? If one side was motivated by social benevolence - and the other side supported a rich and corrupt status quo - then I could see that there is actually a division - and - If it takes a billion bucks to get elected president - that only allows ONE small segiment of society to rule - Where was Ralph Nader during the election - no media coverage what so ever - because one small group owns everything - that's Facism.

[bush_cheney2004]

How can there be two when each side is motivated by the same goal..Personal power and the accumulation of more wealth for themselves -friends and family? If one side was motivated by social benevolence - and the other side supported a rich and corrupt status quo - then I could see that there is actually a division

Social benevolence? Are you joking? That's the biggest wealth accumulation scheme of all....based on the minimal investment by recipients. I never got a job from a poor man (or woman).

- and - If it takes a billion bucks to get elected president - that only allows ONE small segiment of society to rule - Where was Ralph Nader during the election - no media coverage what so ever - because one small group owns everything - that's Facism.

Ralph was on the ballot just like everybody else....C-SPAN too. He got exactly what he paid for. If the losers can't compete, call it "Fascism" and find a different game?

[Oleg Bach]

Social benevolence? Are you joking? That's the biggest wealth accumulation scheme of all....based on the minimal investment by recipients. I never got a job from a poor man (or woman).

Ralph was on the ballot just like everybody else....C-SPAN too. He got exactly what he paid for. If the losers can't compete, call it "Fascism" and find a different game?

Oh you're back are you...what took you so long? Maybe you guys can hire me as the new minister of war.... I have no problem provoking and controling you with some friendly name calling. NAZI! nawh nawh nawh hawh boo bah...Love the term benevolent - malevolent has a nice dark ring to it also. There is no competion once a group reaches a certain height - I watch a company for over 30 years - they merged and merged and merged untill they owned the whole nation including the judicary and the federal government - It's the same with you folks - small mafia families grow to be huge ones - what happens when the Cappo gets old and passes away - got any replacements..?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... It's the same with you folks - small mafia families grow to be huge ones - what happens when the Cappo gets old and passes away - got any replacements..?

We just elect some new ones...it's not complicated. Rubes who don't like it can just rent Goodfellas.

[Oleg Bach]

What's a Rube? - oh - rubby - like a red stone....you just insulted me...did you not? If I had my white gloves on I would thrash you about the cheek and challenge you to a duel One thing I can say is that you are honest...so you admit that you are not a Nazi state - good..... and now you clearly confess to being the largest crimminal enterprise on earth - that is something to be proud of I suppose...honest crooks....great....My mum has a an old Russian saying about shameless men ' You could piss in his face and he would smile and state it was raining".

[bush_cheney2004]

....My mum has a an old Russian saying about shameless men ' You could piss in his face and he would smile and state it was raining".

Funny...my mum had a different saying....'We are born between a piss and a sh_t, so stop whining.'

[Oleg Bach]

Funny...my mum had a different saying....'We are born between a piss and a sh_t, so stop whining.'

Your prize for humorist of the month is in the mail. Now that we have settled our difference...lets move on...soooo nice for you to reveal all of the national secrets all at once - I feel like the father confessor...ever wonder about that great imbalance of power that exists in the Catholic faith - The priest knows every nasty detail and you know nothing about him. Do you remember the old days at the Fire Hall Theatre when Dan played the cop - he was all of 20 at the time - It was a senators daughter that took me to the show...I always imagined Ghost Buster Boy the pot smoking letcher - was simply given the OK to leave Canada and become a star...it was like they hand picked one.....yep - I met all of them and all of them were creepy...entertainers...that end up spending their lives entertaining THEMSELVES....off topic so what...how did it go for you?

[Mortui]

What's a Rube? - oh - rubby - like a red stone....you just insulted me...did you not? If I had my white gloves on I would thrash you about the cheek and challenge you to a duel One thing I can say is that you are honest...so you admit that you are not a Nazi state - good..... and now you clearly confess to being the largest crimminal enterprise on earth - that is something to be proud of I suppose...honest crooks....great....My mum has a an old Russian saying about shameless men ' You could piss in his face and he would smile and state it was raining".

What's a Rube? - oh - rubby - like a red stone....you just insulted me...did you not?

Rube - 1 : an awkward unsophisticated person

2 : a naive or inexperienced person

By the way, 'rubby' is spelled ruby.

so you admit that you are not a Nazi state - good

Thank you for admitting it too.

and now you clearly confess to being the largest crimminal enterprise on earth - that is something to be proud of I suppose...honest crooks....great

The US is not a criminal organization. Thanks for playing though.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Mortui

[Oleg Bach]

Rube - 1 : an awkward unsophisticated person

2 : a naive or inexperienced person

By the way, 'rubby' is spelled ruby.

Thank you for admitting it to.

The US is not a criminal organization. Thanks for playing though.

Usually I spell ruby correctly - it's been a while...I would have thought it was some strange term for a red - or commie....The US can be badly behaved you must admit. But if bad behaviour is not crimminal then I leap across that moral canyon and agree....so it's like the slang ------------------ "That dud is real bad" - which means he's real good - ooooh I get it now - so naive of me to actually believe that bad meant bad - sorry.

[WIP]

It seems to me that you got your thread off to a bad start by beginning without a meaningful definition of fascism, or demonstrating your point that "American Fascism continues" because President-elect Barack Obama is appointing a number of former Clinton staffers to prominent positions in his new government:

A simple definition of Facism is a one party system without competators, resistance or oppostion of any sort.

There are disagreements about defining "fascism" because it is universally considered to be a pejorative, but you need more than one-party rule! A fascist government will feature autocratic rule, nationalism, collectivist values, and populist rhetoric used to incite the mob that makes up the fascist movement used to gain power.

A fascist system begins with a populist movement that represents a significant segment of the population, though not necessarily the opinions of the majority. They may engage in mob action to intimidate outlier groups that have been targeted as scapegoats by their fascist leaders. Historically, a full-fledged fascist movement needs to capitalize on a period of extreme economic and/or social upheaval to gain power.

So, right there, you've got a problem if you're trying to equate the American government with fascism! It's possible that a fascist movement could take power if things get bad enough - but we're not there yet!

What we see at this point in America are the last dying and desperate attempts to maintain Facism though a new front man - who now is in the midst of appointing and incorporating supposed republicans to his "team"

And now we've made it to the conspiracy theory nonsense! After eight years of Republican rule, the new Obama Administration would have nobody with prior executive experience if they refused to appoint some of the Clinton people! When Bill Clinton became president in 1992, he floundered about for the first two years largely because he didn't want anyone left from the Carter Administration.

Right now, Barack Obama is taking over the White House at what may be the most precarious economic times since 1929; he has no choice other than hit the ground running on Jan. 20th, rather than bring in a totally green team and put them on a learning curve to discover how the federal departments operate.

So, how does removing the Bush/Cheney team = fascism again?

There clearly is no seperation of church and state as we saw with Bush who pleaded religiouslity to gain votes but showed no evidence of being a religious man

And, in less than two months, he'll be gone, and so will his team! That will at least put a temporary halt to the power of the Christian Nationalist movement that had thrown all of its eggs into the Republican basket.

[Oleg Bach]

It seems to me that you got your thread off to a bad start by beginning without a meaningful definition of fascism, or demonstrating your point that "American Fascism continues" because President-elect Barack Obama is appointing a number of former Clinton staffers to prominent positions in his new government:

There are disagreements about defining "fascism" because it is universally considered to be a pejorative, but you need more than one-party rule! A fascist government will feature autocratic rule, nationalism, collectivist values, and populist rhetoric used to incite the mob that makes up the fascist movement used to gain power.

A fascist system begins with a populist movement that represents a significant segment of the population, though not necessarily the opinions of the majority. They may engage in mob action to intimidate outlier groups that have been targeted as scapegoats by their fascist leaders. Historically, a full-fledged fascist movement needs to capitalize on a period of extreme economic and/or social upheaval to gain power.

So, right there, you've got a problem if you're trying to equate the American government with fascism! It's possible that a fascist movement could take power if things get bad enough - but we're not there yet!

And now we've made it to the conspiracy theory nonsense! After eight years of Republican rule, the new Obama Administration would have nobody with prior executive experience if they refused to appoint some of the Clinton people! When Bill Clinton became president in 1992, he floundered about for the first two years largely because he didn't want anyone left from the Carter Administration.

Right now, Barack Obama is taking over the White House at what may be the most precarious economic times since 1929; he has no choice other than hit the ground running on Jan. 20th, rather than bring in a totally green team and put them on a learning curve to discover how the federal departments operate.

So, how does removing the Bush/Cheney team = fascism again?

And, in less than two months, he'll be gone, and so will his team! That will at least put a temporary halt to the power of the Christian Nationalist movement that had thrown all of its eggs into the Republican basket.

Well written thanks. You must agree that the climate is just about perfect to launch Facism...I realize it is not here yet - but it could rise quickly - lets wait and see if there is the will to stop it if it does rear it's head.

[Moonlight Graham]

A simple definition of Facism is a one party system without competators, resistance or oppostion of any sort.

Your definition does not come close to fully describing fascism. The "fascism" label is thrown around MUCH too frequently these days, mostly for shock value (as in this thread). Fascism has a very particular definition.

What you define is much closer to authoritarianism or autocracy etc. Basically your argument is that the U.S. is a de facto single-party state.

P.S. you continually misspelled the word "fascism", which doesn't really lend credibility to your argument.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Moonlight Graham

[WIP]

Well written thanks. You must agree that the climate is just about perfect to launch Facism...I realize it is not here yet - but it could rise quickly - lets wait and see if there is the will to stop it if it does rear it's head.

Your welcome! And yes, I can envision fascism coming to America if the country goes into a prolonged economic decline. American prestige has taken a huge hit to the economy and on the international stage during the Bush years; a continued decline could fuel the rise of a charismatic fascist leader who promises to restore American supremacy, and he or she will try to press all of the right buttons to tie his party with patriotism, racial purity and traditional Christian values.

During the 1930's, playwright and author Sinclair Lewis voiced his concern over the dangerous mixing of nationalistic fervour and religious adherence: "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

[White Doors]

Your welcome! And yes, I can envision fascism coming to America if the country goes into a prolonged economic decline. American prestige has taken a huge hit to the economy and on the international stage during the Bush years; a continued decline could fuel the rise of a charismatic fascist leader who promises to restore American supremacy, and he or she will try to press all of the right buttons to tie his party with patriotism, racial purity and traditional Christian values.

During the 1930's, playwright and author Sinclair Lewis voiced his concern over the dangerous mixing of nationalistic fervour and religious adherence: "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

Wait... I thought fascism already came to America? Wasn't Bush merely a Hitler clone? Wasn't that the popular thinking among the left only 2 years ago? Now we have Bush gracefully handing power over to his successor and he is no longer Hitler?

Weird...

By the way, I wonder if Obama will get to the bottom what what really happened on 9/11?

Or will Obama be 'controlled' by the perpetrators of the inside job of 9/11 too?

Edited November 25, 2008 by White Doors

[Mr.Canada]

Small addition... thank you. Left and right are for mass consumption. What I see is the real power sits in the middle and controls both the right and left hand of the political beast. The one party system has always been around and it is Facism for lack of a better term. Look at the way the new Obama administration is structuring itself - they are gathering forces from both sides - Look at the partnerships that exist between Bush senior and Bill Clinton. There arrangement was not as charitable as it appeared - it was buisness. Left right politics causes the public mind to vacilate and in that vacilation comes the blinding blur that allow the middle top to operate unseen - please no tin foil hat jokes. Even if these arrangements are unconscious it does not matter - the results is Facism...and who ever said that dictatorship was a bad thing anyway....democracy is mod rule and people if set free can cause chaos.

Fascism can be a good thing if used properly.

[White Doors]

Fascism can be a good thing if used properly.

yeah, like Plutonium, I suppose.

I doubt you got this from your union notes though.

While it is refreshingly honest, I am afraid that it may be a little too bold for your PC worshipping leaders.

Keep it up my little SD - you are making Himmler proud.

[Mr.Canada]

Well, that's what they say. When you're on top everyone wants to try and tear you down. We've witnessed it here folks. Mr.Canada making brilliant points and this guy as well as M.Dancer falling to personal attacks since they have no other recourse.