Are Conservatives Committing Hari Kari?

[maplesyrup]

I just listened to CTV Question Period and the opinions of their political pundits.

It appears to me that the Conservatives are making a huge mistake in choosing Stephen Harper as their leader.

My reasoning is all the baggage Harper is carrying around from his past, with such statements as putting up a "Firewall around Alberta", the Eastern antagonism he created with his remarks about "the Atlantic Provinces", which was so severe that "the NS Legislature passed a motion to unanimously condemned him", and his severe viewpoint towards Quebeckers, to mention a few items.

These above issues will be exploited to the max by the opposition in the upcoming election campaign.

And apart from that, how many Conservative members and supporters, will leave the new party, if Harper is chosen leader on March 20th?

I believe that the Conservatives will be committing a huge mistake, and quite frankly feel they have a death wish, if they don't choose Belinda Stronach, as their new leader next weekend.

[theWatcher]

Actually the best thing conservatives can do is the complete opposite of what the socialists (including maple syrup) are advocating.

1. Socialists are advocating what is best for their party and I certainly agree Belinda as CP leader is the best thing possible for the NDP.

2. If conservatives agreed with socialists then they are probably socialists themselves and should join the NDP.

[maplesyrup]

Actually the best thing conservatives can do is the complete opposite of what the socialists (including maple syrup) are advocating.

1. Socialists are advocating what is best for their party and I certainly agree Belinda as CP leader is the best thing possible for the NDP.

2. If conservatives agreed with socialists then they are probably socialists themselves and should join the NDP.

Personally I am not into labelling people.

I believe it would be great if the Liberals could be held to a minority government, but for that to happen Conservatives need to show some strength.

The Martin Liberals will mop the floor with Harper's baggage.

[Dennis]

This stuff coming from maplesyrup is so laughable.

Belinda has no clue what she's doing, can't even debate the issues, and Harper's the one who will be the target in the next election?

Shouldn't Belinda's qualifications for the job be scrutinized a whole lot more before she and her supporters start pointing their fingers at Harper?

I mean, isn't Belinda busy doing karaoke and holding house parties?

(Yes, she's campaigning on that kind of stuff. Look it up. )

[maplesyrup]

Dennis.....do you have any idea what Harper's baggage is?

[sir_springer]

Stan, as usual you are so full of "BS", it's a wonder it isn't running out your ears.

I watched Question Period. I have no idea what show you were watching, but it wasn't the same one. Or if it was, you were catching it through the bathroom door.

Political suicide is Belinda Stronach. In fact, it would be the equivolent of blowing our collective brains out. The credibility of our party would tank quicker than the Titanic. Martin and Laidup would be on her like starving hyenas on a week-old carcass. She'd be roadkill before she gets out of her driveway.

Give it a rest, and give the rest of this forum...and that other one you haunt as well...some credit for some intelligence. Or at least try to raise yourself up to the level of those around you.

Frankly, you have the political IQ of a doorknob.

[Dennis]

Dennis.....do you have any idea what Harper's baggage is?

I have a pretty good idea of what you want it to be, which is nothing in comparison to the fact that Belinda has no business running for high office in this country at this time.

Before attacking Harper in this regard, I suggest you provide us with even an inkling of how Belinda can be taken seriously by Canadian voters.

Good thing it looks like she's going to lose big-time anyway. Save the Conservatives the potential for embarrassment which would make Kim Campbell and Stockwell Day look lie old pros.

[maplesyrup]

Since harper became leader of Alliance, he lost 11 by-elections in a row.

[Dennis]

Since harper became leader of Alliance, he lost 11 by-elections in a row.

Does Belinda even know what a by-election is?

[Pellaken]

Since harper became leader of Alliance, he lost 11 by-elections in a row.

Does Belinda even know what a by-election is?

smiley, Harper lost 11 by-elections, mrs.stronach has NEVER lost an election.

[I miss Reagan]

That's a brilliant comment considering Stronach has never been involved in politics before. She has to have people coaching her in debates through her ear piece.

[Dennis]

smiley, Harper lost 11 by-elections, mrs.stronach has NEVER lost an election

1)Yes, this point was already made. And the reply is that Belinda doesn't have a clue as to how to run an election in the first place. IF the choice is between track record which I think is misleading), and competence, I'll take the former.

2) Since when are bi-elections an indication of general election success?

a) If that were the case, Mario Dumont would no be premier of Quebec.

How did the PCs do in this time? Win 1? Woooooooo!

c) I think the Conservative Party is now in a much better position to win by-elections that either the Alliance or the PC Party.

This fact is conveniently neglected when discussing Harper's accomplishments, who is the founder of this party.

3) You know you're on shaky ground when you're an NDPer commenting on the qualification of Tory leadershp candidates. If that person says Belinda (for God knows what reason), then you know something is terribly amiss.

PS. If people are going to keep referring to the bi-elections, it would be nice if someone posted ALL the results, that way we'd know what the reference really is.

Besides. according to you Lefties, you would think these bi-elections were to be treated as they were mythical legends of electoras success and victory.

[Dennis]

That's a brilliant comment considering Stronach has never been involved in politics before. She has to have people coaching her in debates through her ear piece.

She skips the debates because she has no clue. And this person is supposed to take on the current Liberal government?

I mean, when is this joke going to finally end?

Funny how the faux Belinda supporters (many of whom won't vote Tory and aren't Tories anyhow) spend more time and energy attacking Harper rather than telling the rest of us what business she has wanting to become PM in the first place?

[I miss Reagan]

It really is amazing what money can buy you eh? A complete fool can run for the nomination, and get a surprising amount of support, with daddy's money.

[Black Dog]

It really is amazing what money can buy you eh? A complete fool can run for the nomination, and get a surprising amount of support, with daddy's money.

Hey, it worked for George Dubya....

[Dennis]

Hey, it worked for George Dubya

In case you didn't notice, he was elected twice as the chief executive of the second largest state in America, an proved himself in a fierce contest against a diverse opposition in the primaries, before engaging in a long election battle against Al Gore, where he won all three debates against the 'superior' intellect.

You want to compare Bush's and Belinda's pre-leadership campaign credentials? By all means.

Bush had credentials to run for office. Belinda has a website and a karoake machine.

[maplesyrup]

This is Canada.

We do things differently, eh?

[Dennis]

This is Canada.

We do things differently, eh?

I didn't make the comparison.

[Pellaken]

here's something to think about

in provinces like Quebec even, there may still be ridings with 100 people, and ridings with 5. Whoever wins the ridings with 5 will be much stronger. Clement, for example, could 'win' ontario, with 25% of the vote from there.

[Dennis]

here's something to think about

in provinces like Quebec even, there may still be ridings with 100 people, and ridings with 5. Whoever wins the ridings with 5 will be much stronger. Clement, for example, could 'win' ontario, with 25% of the vote from there.

Conrad Winn, in his last Compas poll which had Harper at 59%, said he accounted for this factor by including at least 4 members in each riding in the sample.

Furthermore, Harper beat both Stronach and Clement in selling new memberships, another indicator of relevant strength.

And, even furthermore, Winn said he was surprised at the scope and strenght of Harper's strength nationwide.

He was leading in Ontario, and was also considered a strong 2nd choice among members.

And, yet even furthermore, the candidates probably have a good idea of what's happening on the ground, given the rules of the leadership contest. And Harper is not campaigning like a man who has anything to worry about.

Most of the analyses of this race have Harper well ahead, even with the PC points system being used this time around.

I do think it is a tricky system to get a read on what's happening with regard to support.

But most attempts have Harper ahead. And the candidates themselves seem to be acknowledging this with their campaign strategies.

[maplesyrup]

I listened to the poitical pundits today and they gave that last weekend Compas poll short shrift.

It is anybodys game.

[Dennis]

I listened to the poitical pundits today and they gave that last weekend Compas poll short shrift.

It is anybodys game.

Can you please provide the source for such a claim? What pundits? What did they actually say?

Otherwise, I can only speculate that its maplesyrup's version given, whose objectivity may be in question.

Fact is, Compas is the only major polling firm that thas attempted to guage the opinion of the membership in this leadership race.

That it has disappointed opponents of Stephen Harper is something that has become obvious as a result.

[August1991]

Let me jump into this purely speculative debate not by criticising Harper but by pointing out a gargantuan flaw in Stronach's leadership strategy. She intended to win by getting support among French-speaking voters even though she needs simultaneous translation to speak to them.

What's wrong with this picture?

[maplesyrup]

I listened to the poitical pundits today and they gave that last weekend Compas poll short shrift.

It is anybodys game. 

Can you please provide the source for such a claim? What pundits? What did they actually say?

Politics with Don Newman - it was the general consensus that no one knows who will win.

Sorry to disappoint.

I have a hunch that Belinda will win, but it is just a hunch, nothing scientific.

[sir_springer]

http://www.cbc.ca/programs/sites/politics.html

On the RHS, click on the Monday PM.

Then slide across to about the 36 minute mark and listen for yourself.

They all concede that Harper clearly is in the lead, however this skewered point system makes polling very difficult.

While both Anderson and Gossage are cooler to Harper, Spector is adamant that he's clearly the one to lead against Paul Martin.

Anyway...

I'm sure you all know better by now than to take anything Maple Stan Syrup has to say as even remotely ressembling the facts or truth.