Lest We Forget

[Sir Bandelot]

Yeah I bet you're a bully at home.

Nope not at all. That is what I meant by saying that, unlike some who possibly are.

Do you have anything important to add, or are you just working on increasing your post count, with useless comments like that.

Who are you trying to impress

[M.Dancer]

Nope not at all. That is what I meant by saying that, unlike some who possibly are.

Do you have anything important to add, or are you just working on increasing your post count, with useless comments like that.

Who are you trying to impress

Yeah I bet your a big bully at home. I on the other hand ....

I think what you mean to say is you are sorry for being a petulant twit and talking through your ass...you just need to work on your delivery better. I don't think I can impress this more strongly to you.

[Sir Bandelot]

I think what you mean to say is you are sorry for being a petulant twit and talking through your ass...you just need to work on your delivery better. I don't think I can impress this more strongly to you.

I have no comment to you.

[Oleg Bach]

I have no comment to you.

This is a skill building exercise...the no comment stall is good - but there has to be a follow up. Hopefully our communicational ablity will be enhanced by such exchanges - go for it...hit him hard and see if you can get a no comment out of your advesary - it will be fun.

[M.Dancer]

I have no comment to you.

Keep it that way and you will no doubt sound smarter.

[Sir Bandelot]

This is a skill building exercise...the no comment stall is good - but there has to be a follow up. Hopefully our communicational ablity will be enhanced by such exchanges - go for it...hit him hard and see if you can get a no comment out of your advesary - it will be fun.

No, because it doesn't interest me to engage in all out sniping attacks, especially when there is no relevant point to any debate. Let someone else do that

[Sir Bandelot]

Keep it that way and you will no doubt sound smarter.

It is the smart thing to do.

[M.Dancer]

No, because it doesn't interest me to engage in all out sniping attacks, .......

Oh ..I see. You prefer hit and run sniping slander...

Yeah I bet your a big bully at home.

[Charles Anthony]

Everybody,

Stop the personal attacks and this childish off-topic banter.

Ch. A.

[Sir Bandelot]

Oh ..I see. You prefer hit and run sniping slander...

He did say some bullying things to me in the first place, if you read his post. They were unprovoked. He tried to stop me from expressing myself, and he seems to enjoy doing that often, so thats why I called him a bully. But even if I take a shot at somebody, thats not my main interest. I try to make comments relevant to the discussion. My main reason for debating is not to make people look stupid, but to share what I know and learn from others.

Like if young people come here, and say things that are wrong, I wouldn't jump on them and ridicule them. I have more patience than that. Because, I was and perhaps still am naive in ways, amd I would not want that done to me. And those people would only stop coming back to the discussion. Better to teach them, through reasonable arguments.

but I am a parent and a coach and a leader, and I know how to get people to do things. Outright name calling is pointless and, quite boring. I do not call that "winning" anything. I have other more competitive interests that satisfy me when I feel the need to win.

[Oleg Bach]

He did say some bullying things to me in the first place, if you read his post. They were unprovoked. He tried to stop me from expressing myself, and he seems to enjoy doing that often, so thats why I called him a bully. But even if I take a shot at somebody, thats not my main interest. I try to make comments relevant to the discussion. My main reason for debating is not to make people look stupid, but to share what I know and learn from others.

Like if young people come here, and say things that are wrong, I wouldn't jump on them and ridicule them. I have more patience than that. Because, I was and perhaps still am naive in ways, amd I would not want that done to me. And those people would only stop coming back to the discussion. Better to teach them, through reasonable arguments.

but I am a parent and a coach and a leader, and I know how to get people to do things. Outright name calling is pointless and, quite boring. I do not call that "winning" anything. I have other more competitive interests that satisfy me when I feel the need to win.

In our world they teach that competion brings out the best. To the contrary I believe that contests are for the insecure. Competition will sometimes get those that maybe the best to sullenly retract their service - some don't enjoy a fight as much as others. Contention should be left to a game of billiards - Intellectual,spiritual and the political debate is not about winning - it is about finding common solutions where ALL benefit - If there is political contention then you are playing a game - games have no real purpose - and provide no healing solution...debate is not a contest it is intense mutual co-operation.

[bush_cheney2004]

....To me Remembrance day has become a day to glorify the military, not remember the sacrifices made in the world wars. We have pretty much forgetten those days and their events, our leaders ignore the laws of the Geneva conventions, things like torture, unlawful detention and first-strikes. If we want to honour the vets we should also remember those things, lest they happen again caused by us.

Again, if you wish to go on in such a manner about Remembrance Day, do so with the realization that you do not speak for ("we") or have a clue about what was common then or now wrt the Geneva Conventions. That is where you are mistaken....as always.

[Oleg Bach]

Again, if you wish to go on in such a manner about Remembrance Day, do so with the realization that you do not speak for ("we") or have a clue about what was common then or now wrt the Geneva Conventions. That is where you are mistaken....as always.

War was duty right or wrong. Much like a brave man who will sacrafice his life in the protective dutiful stance that is husbandhood and fatherhood. He will out of duty for the survival of his children do what it takes to ensure the continuance of the familiar line.......and if you spent 25 years with a contentious wife as I did - and now feel like a sacrfical aging lamb - well - I did my damned duty!

[Sir Bandelot]

Again, if you wish to go on in such a manner about Remembrance Day, do so with the realization that you do not speak for ("we") or have a clue about what was common then or now wrt the Geneva Conventions. That is where you are mistaken....as always.

So you don't like my use of the word "we". It's a generalisation and I'm sure there's some who still know what remembrance day is. I believe it should not be used as an opportunity to promote militarism, or for recruiting young people into the forces. That is not the point of it, but it is being used that way in some instances.

You are wrong to claim I don't have a clue "wrt the Geneva conventions". I certainly have some clue. I know it includes the protection of civilians and prisoners of war, that they should be treated humanely and not be publicly humiliated. These laws were accepted after the world wars, and people who break them should be charged with war crimes. Yet the reality is that while our countries have broken these laws, its only the weaker country who gets charged. so therefore its not really a law at all.

[M.Dancer]

You are wrong to claim I don't have a clue "wrt the Geneva conventions". I certainly have some clue. I know it includes the protection of civilians and prisoners of war, that they should be treated humanely and not be publicly humiliated..

Apparently you don't have a clue then. Canada has not taken any prisoners of war in over 55 years to mistreat nor have they publicly humiliated any civilians. That you think they have clearly shows you don't know the conventions very well.

[Oleg Bach]

So you don't like my use of the word "we". It's a generalisation and I'm sure there's some who still know what remembrance day is. I believe it should not be used as an opportunity to promote militarism, or for recruiting young people into the forces. That is not the point of it, but it is being used that way in some instances.

You are wrong to claim I don't have a clue "wrt the Geneva conventions". I certainly have some clue. I know it includes the protection of civilians and prisoners of war, that they should be treated humanely and not be publicly humiliated. These laws were accepted after the world wars, and people who break them should be charged with war crimes. Yet the reality is that while our countries have broken these laws, its only the weaker country who gets charged. so therefore its not really a law at all.

If it was the marshal class that was in charge of waging this war you would have seen honourable behaviour from the Americans - Seeing it was the merchant class - what do you expect from the decendent of a hardware store clerk given total earthly power - the merchants went nuts and did not have a tradtional sense of honour that is a very important part of warfare - rules - there are damned rules to be followed and the Bushites did not have the class to wage an hounourable and lawful war...end of story - the peasants took over the White House - not one noble knight was involved - they were kicked out.

[Oleg Bach]

It is a huge embarrassment to the elite in America - that is my last word on the subject. This weight on the sholders and reputation of those that screwed up will be born for generations....sheer stupidity.

[Sir Bandelot]

Seeing it was the merchant class - what do you expect from the decendent of a hardware store clerk given total earthly power - the merchants went nuts and did not have a tradtional sense of honour that is a very important part of warfare - rules - there are damned rules to be followed and the Bushites did not have the class to wage an hounourable and lawful war...end of story - the peasants took over the White House - not one noble knight was involved - they were kicked out.

That is an interesting point of view. A bunch of rich peoples kids are running the country- the problem of inheritance.

[Army Guy]

I agree with it. The problem is that political leaders who lick the hands of big business interests will abuse that devotion that is the military, for their own purposes. The challenge for citizens is to hold them accountable, to protect our troops from an abuse of power. So I have no problem voicing my objection when I see that a war is un-just. It doesn't mean I am unpartriotic or don't support the military, quite the opposite. The worst kind are the bobble-heads who always agree with anything they're told from our leaders, they have no idea what the corruption and abuse of power can do.

If it is such a problem perhaps you can give us some examples of our political leaders licking the hands of big business whom are abusing our military....in say the last 40 years...

Just so i'm clear, just how well do you think the citizens are doing in protecting them from this abuse of power. Is it having any effect?

I agree with you.... you have all the freedom and rights to do just that, voice away....but i'd also like to remind you that every action has a reaction, and you must be prepared to answer for those actions....

For example, Most Canadians have made it very clear, they no longer support the Afgan mission, which also has it reaction, polictical leaders take thier cue off this info, Now as a result funding is hard to come by, be it for anything....What most Canadians have forgotten are thier soldiers, whom they had no problems waving goodbye to at the start of the mission, they are still caught in the middle....with no funding for the mission, it makes things extraordinary hard to accomplish on the ground, meaning our soldiers are paying for your actions...not the politions...but our very own soldiers...

And when your on the other end of the stick, on the soldiers side, it does not not like support to our troops....your working again'st us...your putting our lifes in danger to make a piont that that accomplishes nothing....

Want to support us, want to hold our political masters accountable then finish what you started...

[White Doors]

Making factual statements isn't trolling; accusing others of trolling is.

Sadly, you and a few others here seem to have a special status around here and can make ad hom attacks with impunity. I've seen the list that's being compiled elsewhere of members who were in the service, but I'm starting to wonder what kind of services these members really render.

Another issue that I have with modern day militaries is the prevelance of homosexuality and homo-erotic behaviour among (supposedly) non-homosexual members.

WOW

There are still people like this in 2008?

how quaint

[White Doors]

That is an interesting point of view. A bunch of rich peoples kids are running the country- the problem of inheritance.

I think the problem is more likely envy

[Mortui]

If it was the marshal class that was in charge of waging this war you would have seen honourable behaviour from the Americans - Seeing it was the merchant class - what do you expect from the decendent of a hardware store clerk given total earthly power - the merchants went nuts and did not have a tradtional sense of honour that is a very important part of warfare - rules - there are damned rules to be followed and the Bushites did not have the class to wage an hounourable and lawful war...end of story - the peasants took over the White House - not one noble knight was involved - they were kicked out.

Did you read what you just wrote? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but such a 'marshal class' is nonexistant. The idea that you have better morals just because you inherit money from your family that goes back generations is ridiculous and downright ignorant. Good God man, look at the kings of England. By the way, if the White House was being run by 'peasants' we wouldn't be in this war, as the majority of Americans DISapprove of it.

Also, the founders of the United States were of the 'merchant class'

Edited November 13, 2008 by Mortui

[blueblood]

Did you read what you just wrote? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but such a 'marshal class' is nonexistant. The idea that you have better morals just because you inherit money from your family that goes back generations is ridiculous and downright ignorant. Good God man, look at the kings of England. By the way, if the White House was being run by 'peasants' we wouldn't be in this war, as the majority of Americans DISapprove of it.

Also, the founders of the United States were of the 'merchant class'

Don't bother reasoning with him, he's as coherent as a japanese game show.

[Mortui]

Don't bother reasoning with him, he's as coherent as a japanese game show.

Haha, sad thing is that it's true I'm going to beat my head against the keyboard for a while longer though. Maybe he finally realized that he was wrong about dictators since he hasn't responded to it in a week or so. There's hope yet!

[Sir Bandelot]

"If it is such a problem perhaps you can give us some examples of our political leaders licking the hands of big business whom are abusing our military."

Come on, you must realize that war opens the opportunity for profiteering. And where there's money to be made comes the greedy ones who abuse their privelidge.

Pipeline opens new front in Afghan war

SHAWN MCCARTHY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

19/06/08

OTTAWA — Afghanistan and three of its neighbouring countries have agreed to build a $7.6-billion (U.S.) pipeline that would deliver natural gas from Turkmenistan to energy-starved Pakistan and India – a project running right through the volatile Kandahar province – raising questions about what role Canadian Forces may play in defending the project.

...security issues remain daunting and the Canadian military could - wittingly or not - become embroiled in a "new great game" over energy security that is playing out in the region.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...fghanistan/home

"Just so i'm clear, just how well do you think the citizens are doing in protecting them from this abuse of power. Is it having any effect?"

Most citizens simply don't know, others couldn't care less.

"Most Canadians have made it very clear, they no longer support the Afgan mission, which also has it reaction, polictical leaders take thier cue off this info, Now as a result funding is hard to come by, be it for anything....What most Canadians have forgotten are thier soldiers, whom they had no problems waving goodbye to at the start of the mission, they are still caught in the middle....with no funding for the mission, it makes things extraordinary hard to accomplish on the ground, meaning our soldiers are paying for your actions...not the politions...but our very own soldiers...

And when your on the other end of the stick, on the soldiers side, it does not not like support to our troops....your working again'st us...your putting our lifes in danger to make a piont that that accomplishes nothing....

Want to support us, want to hold our political masters accountable then finish what you started..."

Somehow I think most Canadians never supported the war in the first place, but were told by Chretien that it was part of our obligations to international treaties to send troops. And the original mission is not the same as the extended and more aggressive mission we have today. I also truly believe, that most Canadians would care TREMENDOUSLY about what you just said, that they would be very angry to find out our troops are at risk because of government neglect. Certainly thats not available to us in any of the mainstream media. But if its true, it really should be!

There's a very simple way to finish it. Pull out and let someone else have a turn. Or do what Peter Mackay said we would never do, but is increasingly becoming the only option- negotiate.

Third option, which never worked yet, is to get others to contribute their fair share. Maybe President Obama will now help with that by moving in more US troops. He seems to have his priorities straight.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Sir Bandelot