U.S. Election Results 2008

[bush_cheney2004]

I was watching CNN earlier this evening and I was amused with how many times they talked about this whole "African-American" thing.. Why should he be labeled as an "African American"? He is JUST AN AMERICAN like everybody else. Black or White, you are just an American. That is pure equality and I am sure that is how MLK would have wanted it.

One of the reasons Obama succeeded where Chisolms, Jacksons, and Sharptons failed in the past has to do with this very issue. Obama did not want to win as African American...he wanted to win (or lose) as an American.

Also, it should be this way in Canada as well, as John Diefenbaker wanted it.. Oh how I wish we retained the same attitude 50 years later

Canada progresses and regresses at its own pace depending on the issue. The two nations are different.

[Hcheh]

I blame Trudeau

[bush_cheney2004]

I blame Trudeau

Funny you should mention PET....one of the Fox talking heads compared Obama's meteoric rise to that of PM Trudeau's. Love him or hate him, PET made an impact.

[Hcheh]

Funny you should mention PET....one of the Fox talking heads compared Obama's meteoric rise to that of PM Trudeau's. Love him or hate him, PET made an impact.

Yeah, except Obama made such a great point in his remarks speech, (paraphrasing):

"We are not just a bunch of different groups making decisions for ourselves. We will always be the United States of America"

All Trudeau did was screw our national unity up the ass

[Hcheh]

Love him or hate him, PET made an impact.

Yes, he did make an impact but an impact alone does not warrant my respect. Hitler made an impact and the guy is a nutcase

*EDIT: perhaps he does earn my respect in some cases, but less than often

Edited November 5, 2008 by Hcheh

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, except Obama made such a great point in his remarks speech, (paraphrasing):

"We are not just a bunch of different groups making decisions for ourselves. We will always be the United States of America"

All Trudeau did was screw our national unity up the ass

Agreed, but he was faced with your version of a Civil War, and didn't want to solve the problem the violent "American Way".

So....badda bing....badda boom....multiculturalism!

[Hcheh]

Agreed, but he was faced with your version of a Civil War, and didn't want to solve the problem the violent "American Way".

So....badda bing....badda boom....multiculturalism!

I respect him for avoiding a civil war or anything massively violent however. As we seen in history, Sir Wilfrid Laurier did a mighty fine job with keeping the country intact; keeping the Anglophones happy, keeping the Francophones happy and establishing trade with the U.S. at the same time.

PET's choice of action was respectable, he just did a bad job at it

[Hcheh]

speaking of Canadian identity, this is a humorous I found,

"Canadians have been so busy explaining to the Americans that we aren't British, and to the British that we aren't Americans that we haven't had time to become Canadians."

Helen Gordon McPherson

[bush_cheney2004]

speaking of Canadian identity, this is a humorous I found,

"Canadians have been so busy explaining to the Americans that we aren't British, and to the British that we aren't Americans that we haven't had time to become Canadians."

Helen Gordon McPherson

Lots of truth in that......Canada has fought that tug-o-war for many years.

Looks like Senator Coleman has wrapped things up over Al Franken......good night.

[Argus]

It seems a lot of Republican voters of the past switched their votes to Obama. It is the end of an era of conservative rule and Americans seems to have embraced it. There will be a lot of analysis about what happened but in the end, the economy and fatigue regarding the continuation of past practices conspired to sweep Republicans out.

You have it half right. My take on it is this; conservative abandoned the Republican party. Over the past decade or more conservatives have been in retreat in that party, pushed aside by the Christian fundamentalists. You might not have noticed, because you think of all conservatives as a monolithic bloc, but they're distinct. Just because the religious conservatives are social conservatives doesn't mean they share all the same values with mainstream conservatives. Most mainstream conservatives, even those with a social conservative bent, don't take their morality as much to heart as the religious right. And I think they simply grew tired of supporting a Republican party which was devoted to morality issues and which ignored the economy.

Right now the Republicans are in the grip of the Pat Robertson religious conservatives. They know nothing about the economy, and frankly, don't much care. Their concern is people's souls. They parrot the right lines about smaller government, but at heart, religious conservatives are all about intervention in people's lives, not leaving them to do as they please. They've been joined by the special interest groups who fund them in exchange for legislation tailored towards their needs. They don't hold much appeal to most conservatives either.

And as if the huge deficit wasn't bad enough, we have this mortgage meltdown and the financial hindenburg on Wall street as glaring red signs of the economic incompetence of the religious conservatives and their figurehead clown George Bush. If McCain, the old McCain, the guy who fought against the fundies, had emerged in this election I think things might have been different. But we got the puppet of the fundies again, as with GWB, a guy who parotted all the right morality and patriotism BS the fundies insisted on in exchange for their support, who appointed the silly fundie governor as his running mate.

I think regular conservatives just shook their heads and fell away, deciding almost anything is better than another four years of economc incompetence, and divisive, moralistic chest thumping. I know that I began abandoning my hopes for McCain last year, and completely abandoned them when he appointed Palin as his running mate. If I were in the states I'd have voted for Obama. I think a lot of conservatives there did so.

Now the thing to watch is whether the Republicans turn towards their "base", that is, the religious fundies, and get even more hardcore moralistic, or whether they shrug off the control of the Pat Robertson types and try to go mainstream again.

[Argus]

It is degrading, I don't think anything of it.. A Canadian is just a Canadian, it doesn't matter if you are Oriental, Indian, African, South American or whatever.. You were the one who brought it up.. Anyhow, we have a Governor General who was from Haiti and Clarkson was of Asian descent.. This shows that we don't think much of it

You're joking, right? Clarkson was appointed so that Chretien could show how (l)iberal he was, not for any other recognizable abilities. Ditto for Jean. They were specifically appointed due to their gender and ethnicity, and neither one would have been appointed had she been White.

Now I happen to think both did a decent job, especially Jean, but that doesn't change the facts. So to say "we don't think much of it" is silly.

[Argus]

I would say that the Canadian term may be degrading because of our sense of identity.. It is "everything goes" , no need for assimilation.

That might be your attitude. It most certainly is not mine.

[Argus]

So you suppose we should self segregate ourselves by actually implying differences within our people?

We already do that. Where do you live anyway?

[Sir Bandelot]

John McCain is not religious. One of his challenges was to attract votes from the religous conservatives. Mainstream conservatives would have preferred John McCain to a more religious leader.

I seriously doubt that many of the religious right switched to voting democrat.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Argus]

John McCain is not religious. One of his challenges was to attract votes from the religous conservatives. Mainstream conservatives would have preferred John McCain to a more religious leader. I doubt that many of the religious right swithced to voting democrat.

McCain isn't particularly religious, but neither was GWB. Bush, however, was the figurehead puppet to Pat Robertson, and I think mainstream conservatives saw McCain as shaping into another GWB, taking his lines and policies from the fundies in exchange for their votes and organizing, then turning to the lobbyists for funding. he felt he needed to do this to get the religious right onboard, and it worked, but a lot of conservatives stepped off the bus at that point.

[Smallc]

Yeah, except Obama made such a great point in his remarks speech, (paraphrasing):

"We are not just a bunch of different groups making decisions for ourselves. We will always be the United States of America"

All Trudeau did was screw our national unity up the ass

You seem to have this opinion that we're some disjointed group of people. Maybe if you'd learn more about our country and start promoting its unity instead of complaining you wouldn't see it as such a problem. First off, Canadian patriotism and unity are different than that of the United States. We were not founded on the same principles and in many ways, in both countries, the way we see ourselves hasn't changes since that time. Canada is and always has been a regional country. The reality is though, the majority of us who live here still love this place and the freedom we have even if we take it for granted. As I have referenced before, recent polls show that more people than ever are proud of Canada and proud to live in Canada.

But, since your are so worried about it:

Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong. And our dreams for this beautiful country will never die.

- Pierre Trudeau

There is nothing wrong with this country. Absolutely nothing. There is no reason that someone like Barack Obama could not be elected here. Canadians aren't as a rule judgmental of different cultures and I have every belief that we would see him as simply a person and not a black man. I have faith in Canada.

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As I said earlier though, this is a great day for America, because no matter who has been elected, he will more progressive than what they had.

[jdobbin]

Looks like some automatic recounts are coming in some Senate races. There will be a run-off in at least one state and absentee ballots for another.

It is just short of 60 seats for the Democrats in the Senate. It was always going to be a tough mark to hit.

[Sir Bandelot]

Looks like some automatic recounts are coming in some Senate races. There will be a run-off in at least one state and absentee ballots for another.

It is just short of 60 seats for the Democrats in the Senate. It was always going to be a tough mark to hit.

Even if they get 60, the Joe Leiberman guy betrayed them in the campaign and likely will jump ship if he's not ousted by the party.

[Black Dog]

efeat? I am an American....celebrating a victory for democracy, one that Canadians said would never happen in racist America. Fact is, it may never happen in Canada. How ironic.....Harper-Bush was "re-elected"...the Americans have moved on.

Shameless. Face it: you and your ilk spent the bulk of the last two years deriding Obama as everything from the next Hewey Long to a terrorist sleeper agent to a raging Marxist. Your slimy attempts to now co-opt his election win as a victory for democracy ring as hollow as, well, everything else you say. You lost. You lost.

[jdobbin]

Even if they get 60, the Joe Leiberman guy betrayed them in the campaign and likely will jump ship if he's not ousted by the party.

They were hoping for 60 plus Lieberman. It was a long shot at best. If they had gotten it, they would have told Lieberman so long. In any event, I think the Deomcrats might end his committee chairmanship.

[Cameron]

This is all good and exciting.

But it's now time for Obama to put his money where his mouth is. As with any politician, talk is cheap.

[Pliny]

Well, why was I so wrong on the election call? I had pegged McCain to win. Although McCain had it tough from the outset of his nomination as Republican leader (Where did he come from, really? I called it wrong on his nomination, too.) I thought it was in the cards because it was in his history to come out of nowhere. He had come back from the dead in Vietnam, came out of nowhere to win the nomination and I didn't see why he wouldn't continue to inspire America with his underdog determination and take the final prize.

I know the failings of the Republicans and Bush really wasn't a great leader. The economy was a mess but Democrats made their contribution to that, starting with FDR's creation of Fannie Mae in 1938. But the man who America didn't know got elected.

McCain was too old?

Not enough support from within the Republican base?

Sarah Palin?

Perhaps all those things contributed to the loss but why did America go with Obama? His history doesn't match the image he portrayed and besides being a rhetorical orator of note - who is he really?

I kind of liken him to Pierre Turdeau.

We are about to find out who Barack Obama is and what he is really all about!

[M.Dancer]

Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin.

McCain had an ace to play against Obama's inexperiance. He threw it away on a Queen gambling for a flush.

[White Doors]

Sarah Palin.

McCain had an ace to play against Obama's inexperiance. He threw it away on a Queen gambling for a flush.

Agreed. And the economy.

Oh well, the people have spoken.

I'm just happy I won't have the huge hangover that seemingly most will from having drunk the Obama Kool-aid.

It must be spiked with Tequila or something because it's like I'm in the twilight zone today.

[kengs333]

Yes, McCain was too old, and if anyone cared to notice how some days he looked stiff as a board.