Argus Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 I have always felt that without Canada, people in Ontario fear that they would be another Michigan. If Canada dissolved, the rest of Canada would do well but Ontario would become just another rust-belt state. IOW, Ontario (and specifically Toronto) requires Canada to establish its status. Excuse me Mr. Quebecois, but isn't Quebec the annual recipient of the vast bulk of all transfer payments because it is completely incapable of economically supporting itself? Has that not been the case for at least a generation? How much of Quebec's industry would survive if the federal government wasn't subsidizing it with money it gets largely from Ontario and the West? Where do you think Bombardier would be without the feds bribing them to stay in Quebec? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Describe it as you wish, but it's still a net payment.I give you $5 and you give me $7 - I got $2. Anyway, McGuinty wanted fairness. He got it. And as I note above, without Canada, Ontario is just another Michigan. And Quebec would be Bangladesh, with 40% unemployment and national bankruptcy within a few short years, long-protected agriculture falling apart, and industry fleeing in droves from sky high taxes, a hostile, socialist work environment and absurd "provincial' language and cultural laws. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 And I wouldn't expect you too. What is happening in Ontario has very little to do with Ontario, never mind the Government of Ontario. It has everything to do with Ontario. You Liberals simply refuse to admit your culpability. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
madmax Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Having the highest corporate taxes in Canada, among the highest on Earth, You need to rephrase...... The Federal Tax rate for Industry is higher then the Ontarios Tax rate on Industry. And Ontarios Tax rate will still be lower then the Federal one, after the Projected Federal Tax Cuts. That said..... Disputing your "Highest on Earth" bombast, I have bolded those provinces with the same or higher corporate tax rate. Newfoundland 5.0 Prince Edward Island 16.0 Nova Scotia 16.0 New Brunswick 13.0 Quebec 11.4 Ontario 12.0 Manitoba 13.5 Saskatchewan 10-12. Alberta 10.0 British Columbia 12.0 Federal 19.5 ...... On top of that, Lowering the corporate tax rate does benefit a business that isn't making profit. And lowering the tax rate, as has been done federally has not stopped and will not stop the relocation of production facilities offshore. It only gives profitable companies more monies to leave. Which to many economists is just fine. That said, the only Province competitive with US state only corporate taxes is ...... NEWFOUNDLAND. Now sing everybody.... Oh Danny boy..... Quote
Argus Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 You need to rephrase......The Federal Tax rate for Industry is higher then the Ontarios Tax rate on Industry. And Ontarios Tax rate will still be lower then the Federal one, after the Projected Federal Tax Cuts. That said..... Disputing your "Highest on Earth" bombast, I said 'among the highest' so maybe I don't need to rephrase. I have bolded those provinces with the same or higher corporate tax rate. Like the federal government, many provinces have announced they will be gradually lowering their tax rates. Ontario has refused to consider it. Ontario Leads Country for Highest Business taxes - CD Howe Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonbox Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) You need to rephrase......The Federal Tax rate for Industry is higher then the Ontarios Tax rate on Industry. And Ontarios Tax rate will still be lower then the Federal one, after the Projected Federal Tax Cuts. That said..... Disputing your "Highest on Earth" bombast, I have bolded those provinces with the same or higher corporate tax rate. Maybe people need to understand what taxes Flaherty is talking about. It's NOT corporate income tax rates that are in question. It's CAPITAL INVESTMENT taxes for businesses. These are taxes which businesses must pay when trying to build and grow their businesses. When our auto sector is tanking and we're losing jobs by the tens of thousands, please explain to me the wisdom in OVER taxing companies that will be potentially investing money to create jobs????? Ontario's capital investment taxes are the 4th HIGHEST in the WORLD for any state/province/country. Only places like China and Brazil have higher. Oh WoW! Edited November 4, 2008 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
whowhere Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 As far as I knew, most of it still came from Ontario, and with the hit to commodity prices I don't see how AB and Sask are going to be pumping out as many profits as they did last year. Leave it to welfare provinces to boast about their lottery winnings. What I see is somehow if you win the Lotto 649 and buy your way into all the fancy golf clubs and stay at top notch hotels you have comradrie with the wealthy It's the man that makes the clothes, not the cloths that make the man. Dress yourselves up all you want with your lotto money because according to world wealth standards you are still an impoverished lot. If BC, AB, and Sask want to Impress Canada and the World with their innovation than show us something other than sitting on your lotto money and bragging how you are carrying Canada. Yes, Ontario is going to equalization payments, but it's really only getting its own money back. On the one hand the Federal Government is taking from Ontario and on the other hand is giving that same money back to Ontario. However, the Federal Government is still generating a return from Ontario taxpayers but the rest of Canada gets to somehow lable Ontario as a welfare have not province. Makes no Sense! Its time Each province keeps all its own taxes it generates and let the weak learn how to manage what little money they do have better. Quote Job 40 (King James Version) 11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. 12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. 13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
madmax Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Things that $347 Million can buy Fill in the blanks 1) A federal election 2) _______________ 3) _______________ 4) _______________ 5)________________ Quote
guyser Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Things that $347 Million can buy Fill in the blanks 1) A federal election 2) the downpayment on the property next door at the cottage 3) a lot of hookers and blow_ 4) a downpayment for Leafless' english lessons and Charter lessons 5)________________ Quote
kengs333 Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Things that $347 Million can buy Fill in the blanks 1) A federal election 2) _______________ 3) _______________ 4) _______________ 5)________________ About 1/3 of a Globemaster, I believe. Quote
blueblood Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Leave it to welfare provinces to boast about their lottery winnings. What I see is somehow if you win the Lotto 649 and buy your way into all the fancy golf clubs and stay at top notch hotels you have comradrie with the wealthy It's the man that makes the clothes, not the cloths that make the man. Dress yourselves up all you want with your lotto money because according to world wealth standards you are still an impoverished lot.If BC, AB, and Sask want to Impress Canada and the World with their innovation than show us something other than sitting on your lotto money and bragging how you are carrying Canada. Yes, Ontario is going to equalization payments, but it's really only getting its own money back. On the one hand the Federal Government is taking from Ontario and on the other hand is giving that same money back to Ontario. However, the Federal Government is still generating a return from Ontario taxpayers but the rest of Canada gets to somehow lable Ontario as a welfare have not province. Makes no Sense! Its time Each province keeps all its own taxes it generates and let the weak learn how to manage what little money they do have better. The benefits of Western Canada producing things people want... The pitfalls of working in factories... Today is a happy day to be a Westerner and a Newfoundlander... Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
guyser Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 The benefits of Western Canada producing things people want...The pitfalls of working in factories... Today is a happy day to be a Westerner and a Newfoundlander... I dont get it. You are happy , today, because Ontario has a few hiccups to overcome? You are happy since the one thing, and frankly the only thing, you guys do is oil and its working out fantastically for you? Isnt that a tad .....oh I dont know, silly? Its like being proud to be a tire, but the engine just quit. Are you happy when communities water supplies up north get poisoned? Quote
Mr.Canada Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Our PM and his brilliant Finance Minister have come through for the fine fine people of Ontario once again. In the face of defiance they deliver yet again. That's thje type of respect our PM and the Finance Minister have for this province. This province is much more than just Toronto, it has very diverse and vibrant communities in both urban and rural areas. Luckily we have strong leaders who know that. Without partisanship our PM has once again shown the great leader that he is and has delivered some extra money for the people of this great and wondrous province. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
blueblood Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) I dont get it.You are happy , today, because Ontario has a few hiccups to overcome? You are happy since the one thing, and frankly the only thing, you guys do is oil and its working out fantastically for you? Isnt that a tad .....oh I dont know, silly? Its like being proud to be a tire, but the engine just quit. Are you happy when communities water supplies up north get poisoned? Agriculture and Uranium are also doing very well for us. Diamonds and potash as well. Lumber is somewhat lacking though. Ag manufacturing is doing well as well. The little towns with their little machinery factories are doing well. Western Canadian oil and ag has gone through a period of very tough times in the late 80's and 90's, some Ontarians (as can be seen on this board by other Ontarians) have told us to go fly a kite, if your industry is not successful it should be done away with, etc. Now Ontario's manufacturing sector is in the toilet and that sector is asking for help. Hmmm. It's a good laugh. Don't worry my province is a have not, and my gov't is content with that. I would take a reduction in services to get out of that. We're "happy" because the shoe is on the other foot and are not needing Ontario anymore. Call it a solution to an inferiority complex. In a financial crisis, grain prices are better than what they were during boom times for Ontario. Something is wrong with that picture. Edited November 5, 2008 by blueblood Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Topaz Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I heard that Quebec again is getting billions to Ontario millions? Quote
Smallc Posted November 5, 2008 Author Report Posted November 5, 2008 We're "happy" because the shoe is on the other foot and are not needing Ontario anymore. Don't pretend you speak for us. Ontario has done so much for Canada, and I'm not the only one that thinks so. When I heard this today, it brought a tear to my eye. I posted it in another thread earlier. http://www.cjob.com/StationShared/BlogAdler.aspx Quote
kengs333 Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Our PM and his brilliant Finance Minister have come through for the fine fine people of Ontario once again. In the face of defiance they deliver yet again. That's thje type of respect our PM and the Finance Minister have for this province. This province is much more than just Toronto, it has very diverse and vibrant communities in both urban and rural areas. Luckily we have strong leaders who know that. Without partisanship our PM has once again shown the great leader that he is and has delivered some extra money for the people of this great and wondrous province. Ontario is essentially being destroyed because we have a western-based regional party in power. What's happening here is no different than some thug beating a man down, robbing him of his wallet and then turning around and giving him some change so he can take the bus home. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) Ontario is essentially being destroyed because we have a western-based regional party in power. What's happening here is no different than some thug beating a man down, robbing him of his wallet and then turning around and giving him some change so he can take the bus home. Ontario was going down hill before 2006 when the CPC took over. The Conservatives won 51 seats in Ontario, about a third. Hardly western based. Edited November 5, 2008 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
blueblood Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Don't pretend you speak for us.Ontario has done so much for Canada, and I'm not the only one that thinks so. When I heard this today, it brought a tear to my eye. I posted it in another thread earlier. http://www.cjob.com/StationShared/BlogAdler.aspx For those of us who don't live in economic backwaters of Manitoba, this is great news. My area does not need Ontario's money to prosper let alone exist. Canola is still at 450 bucks a tonne despite worldwide financial problems. This is justice at its definition. Why should we always have to go to Ontario cap in hand? Don't worry, when all those dams get built Manitoba won't need handouts either. Charles Adler is a leftist idiot. I am stupider for having read that article. Ontario has pillaged the west for oil in the 70's, has snubbed off our agriculture sector, saying it's up to us to solve it. Well the west pulled up its socks and our ag sector and oil industry are humming along very well, no thanks to Ontario. Their dinosaur manufacturing sector can get as much help as our ag sector as far as I'm concerned. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Smallc Posted November 5, 2008 Author Report Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) Charles Adler is a leftist idiot. If you say so. Charles Adler is a Libertarian and a Conservative. He also loves this country. On issues such as this, I respect his opinion very much. Edited November 5, 2008 by Smallc Quote
jdobbin Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Charles Adler is a leftist idiot. I'm fairly sure that Adler is more right that you. Quote
Smallc Posted November 5, 2008 Author Report Posted November 5, 2008 I'm fairly sure that Adler is more right that you. I think so too, although at times, he does surprise me. Quote
kengs333 Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Ontario was going down hill before 2006 when the CPC took over.The Conservatives won 51 seats in Ontario, about a third. Hardly western based. "western based" The party has its roots in the Reform/CA--a western political movement/party. It doesn't matter how many seats it gets in the rest of Canada, the party is "based" in Alberta. Harper even stated when he won in 2006 that the West was "finally in". Quote
Smallc Posted November 5, 2008 Author Report Posted November 5, 2008 "western based"The party has its roots in the Reform/CA--a western political movement/party. It doesn't matter how many seats it gets in the rest of Canada, the party is "based" in Alberta. Harper even stated when he won in 2006 that the West was "finally in". That's the same way westerners talk about the Liberals. The Conservatives are a national party no matter where they are based just as the Liberals and NDP are also national parties. Quote
madmax Posted November 5, 2008 Report Posted November 5, 2008 Ontario was going down hill before 2006 when the CPC took over. That is correct. The CPC have been fiddling for 2 years. Quote
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