Liberal Leadership 2009

[bush_cheney2004]

.....He only came back to Canada to try for the PMO and I believe he would still be living in the US rather in Canada now if he hadn't come to try for the PMO. I don't believe he's is 100% Canadian at heart and would stand up for Canada.

Do you realize how many Canadians such a standard would disqualify from consideration?

[blueblood]

Probably because Harper screws him by supporting the ADQ.

Alberta got over voting for the same party over and over again?

Can't win more seats in Alberta except one. Can't win anymore seats in Saskatchewan except one. The seats in Manitoba would be exceptionally hard to take from the NDP and Liberals. I suppose things could collapse even further but what issue would do it? That leaves B.C., Ontario and the Maritimes. You expect major gains there to make up for no gains in Quebec?

You see the Tories handling the economic crisis without a deficit? Any deficit and I'd say that is not good economic handling.

Charest and Harper were tight at the beginning of haper's gov't. Something happened...

Alberta was where the reform party started and partly caused the whole mess in parliament. Albertans now know supporting a "national" party furthers their interests. There have been gains in BC, Ontario, and the Maritimes, refer to the election.

If your believing the Liberals wouldn't go into this situation and come out without running a deficit, your living in a dream land. Good economic handling will be judged by the Canadian public in the next election.

[jdobbin]

Have I inadvertently given rise to a conspiracy theory? If so it's a darn good one. Too bad for the Liberals it won't come to pass.

I'm sure the Tories would love to have Leblanc as leader. Please don't tell me you would vote for him over Harper. Please don't tell me that Harper has any fears about Leblanc as leader. It is a little hard to believe.

I think he has a future in the party and Canadian politics but don't think it warrants vaulting into the leadership of the party at this time. In other words, I don't think he is Obama.

Rae denied that he was made aware by the party's executive that the "family gathering", as Ignatieff called it, was to be closed to the media. This little fracas is all over the media. It's bringing Liberal infighting right to the forefront once again and that can't be good. As I recall, this was to be a contest fought with civility.

It is a leadership campaign. I can't recall too many that have been quiet affairs. Name one Alliance, PC or Reform one that didn't have a lot the same things.

The more one looks at Leblanc's credentials, the more apparent it becomes that Leblanc is head and shoulders above the other two contenders.

I've seen his credentials. They are good. However, he doesn't have the national profile at this time to go to an election in the next months.

IMO he would have a better chance at drawing disenchanted Liberals back to the party and perhaps succeed in engaging younger voters. As usual, I don't think the Liberals will do what is best for the party but will choose from within the "old boys network". In the end that will be good for the Conservatives. There's already lots of ammunition to use against ex-pat Ignatieff and ex-Premier of Ontario Rae. Oh, and any future leadership debates held with the media present are sure to provide more.

And the Tories don't have anything on Leblanc? Please. They would call him a Trudeau influenced Liberal who must have known about the corruption in the Liberal party since he has been involved in it all his life and was a MP when Chretien was PM.

What old boys network are you referring to with Ignatieff and Rae? Both are fairly new to the active Liberal fold. It is Leblanc who comes from the old boys network, don't you think?

[jdobbin]

Charest and Harper were tight at the beginning of haper's gov't. Something happened...

Yes, Harper thought the ADQ would be the future government and supported them moreso than the Liberals.

Alberta was where the reform party started and partly caused the whole mess in parliament. Albertans now know supporting a "national" party furthers their interests. There have been gains in BC, Ontario, and the Maritimes, refer to the election.

Not enough to get a majority. Refer to the election.

If your believing the Liberals wouldn't go into this situation and come out without running a deficit, your living in a dream land. Good economic handling will be judged by the Canadian public in the next election.

The Liberals are the only party on the federal front with a reputation of cutting spending. Doe Harper have that reputation? No.

[blueblood]

Yes, Harper thought the ADQ would be the future government and supported them moreso than the Liberals.

Not enough to get a majority. Refer to the election.

The Liberals are the only party on the federal front with a reputation of cutting spending. Doe Harper have that reputation? No.

Harper is only what 12 seats shy. He is making inroads all over Canada, a seat here and a seat there in future elections will help him.

The Liberals also have a reputation for spending on pet projects. What will have the spending been like if PMPM got in and kept all of his promises? Harper does have a reputation for cutting spending, it help cost him his majority by losing votes in Quebec. The Canadian public will decide if Harper is keeping the country in good fiscal shape, a deficit is inevitable no matter which party is in gov't, it's how it is handled will be the issue next election.

[jdobbin]

Harper is only what 12 seats shy. He is making inroads all over Canada, a seat here and a seat there in future elections will help him.

Okay. Where?

The last election was against the weakest Liberal party in most people's memory.

You expect Harper to make an election call in the next weeks to take advantage of Dion still being at the helm?

The Liberals also have a reputation for spending on pet projects. What will have the spending been like if PMPM got in and kept all of his promises? Harper does have a reputation for cutting spending, it help cost him his majority by losing votes in Quebec. The Canadian public will decide if Harper is keeping the country in good fiscal shape, a deficit is inevitable no matter which party is in gov't, it's how it is handled will be the issue next election.

A deficit was not inevitable. It is Harper's to own. He can't blame the Liberals. He can try to blame the world situation but it his own financial management that will create the deficit if it happens.

Harper's spending cuts were minor and political to appeal to his right wing base. Harper has not made meaningful cuts like the Liberals have. He has not shown good financial management if he leads the country into deficit.

However, I expect that no matter how big the deficit or how long that a base of Tories will only vote Tories and somehow the situation will be the Liberals fault. The argument will be "but the Liberals..." as a way of deflecting their own management.

[jdobbin]

Kennedy supporters moving over to Ignatieff.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1116?hub=Canada

Kennedy himself is remaining neutral. But MPs Navdeep Bains, Mark Holland and Mario Silva -- and former MP Omar Alghabra -- are now supporting Ignatieff, according to party insiders.

In the last leadership convention, Bains had influence over about 250 delegates, who backed Kennedy.

Sources told CTV News the four Liberals met with Ignatieff on Saturday.

[blueblood]

Okay. Where?

The last election was against the weakest Liberal party in most people's memory.

You expect Harper to make an election call in the next weeks to take advantage of Dion still being at the helm?

A deficit was not inevitable. It is Harper's to own. He can't blame the Liberals. He can try to blame the world situation but it his own financial management that will create the deficit if it happens.

Harper's spending cuts were minor and political to appeal to his right wing base. Harper has not made meaningful cuts like the Liberals have. He has not shown good financial management if he leads the country into deficit.

However, I expect that no matter how big the deficit or how long that a base of Tories will only vote Tories and somehow the situation will be the Liberals fault. The argument will be "but the Liberals..." as a way of deflecting their own management.

You said yourself Harper was going to pull the plug early and go for the kill shot. I see the logic in that.

A deficit is inevitable. The gov't is not a corporation that has to turn profit. The electorate wants gov't money to be spent, not spending money is a vote loser. It is a minority gov't and looks that way for the foreseeable future, it's not like the Liberals were planning on turning off the money tap in their election campaigns either.

I don't want a deficit the same way you do, however I realize that Harper has to spend money to win votes, I'm sure Harper doesn't like spending money like that at all.

[jdobbin]

You said yourself Harper was going to pull the plug early and go for the kill shot. I see the logic in that.

I certainly think Harper wants to go. I think he knows that the crime bill as a reason will probably get him in as much of the glue as the Opposition. Still, I think he does not want to face a new Liberal leader. He wants to deliver the kill shot now.

A deficit is inevitable. The gov't is not a corporation that has to turn profit. The electorate wants gov't money to be spent, not spending money is a vote loser. It is a minority gov't and looks that way for the foreseeable future, it's not like the Liberals were planning on turning off the money tap in their election campaigns either.

I don't think people will care how it happens or why it happens. They will be remember who was in charge when it happens.

I don't want a deficit the same way you do, however I realize that Harper has to spend money to win votes, I'm sure Harper doesn't like spending money like that at all.

I don't want a deficit. If Harper cuts spending to ensure there isn't one, then maybe we can say that he is a good financial manager.

Blaming the Liberals won't work. They can try to say the Liberals would be worse for the country but the record is they have been better at cost management since the 1990s.

I have seen no evidence that Harper doesn't like to spend. He had non-recession years to show that and failed.

Edited November 17, 2008 by jdobbin

[Sir Bandelot]

I think Leblanc is the right choice for the future of the Liberal party. He fits the criteria I outlined before- younger, charismatic, some experience and not a tarnished past. Ignatieff is a bobble-head ala Dion. He didn't help Dion by laughing at all the CPC jokes. Ray is just a blood sucker.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[capricorn]

I think he has a future in the party and Canadian politics but don't think it warrants vaulting into the leadership of the party at this time.

What I'm saying is that compared to Ignatieff and Rae, Leblanc's comportment so far is more appealing.

In other words, I don't think he is Obama.

Oh yes, the obligatory reference to Obama. Maybe Obama is their version of Pierre Trudeau. Who's copying who?

It is a leadership campaign. I can't recall too many that have been quiet affairs. Name one Alliance, PC or Reform one that didn't have a lot the same things.

Those are in the past. It's the current one that gets the attention.

I've seen his credentials. They are good. However, he doesn't have the national profile at this time to go to an election in the next months.

He has five and half months to raise his profile among Canadians. He's already getting plenty of media coverage.

And the Tories don't have anything on Leblanc? Please. They would call him a Trudeau influenced Liberal who must have known about the corruption in the Liberal party since he has been involved in it all his life and was a MP when Chretien was PM.

Perhaps. But Ignatieff and Rae make better targets.

What old boys network are you referring to with Ignatieff and Rae? Both are fairly new to the active Liberal fold.

Both were in the 2006 race. Only two years ago Chretienites and Martinites were in full force working for their preferred candidate. They haven't gone away. Even Warren Kinsella, one time Chretien staffer and war room advisor, is back as Ignatieff's champion. Plenty of "oldies" are still around.

It is Leblanc who comes from the old boys network, don't you think?

That's like saying that Justin Trudeau is from the old boys network, don't you think?

[Topaz]

I think in these economic time we need Paul Martin back and over on www.hilltimes.ca there's a story to try to get him to come back and run for leadership.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Liberals need a visionary leader. But not yet.

Right now they need a person with EXPERIENCE, they need Rae. After the next election they will need Trudeau to defeat the Tories, but not just yet.

My personal preference would be to see Tobin drafted to deal with the issues because he would reach across party lines and get himself elected. Unfortunately I don't see that likely to happen.

[drewski]

LeBlanc brings the experience, been an MPO for years, worked under Chretien, and his dad has held pretty much every office except for PM (MP, senator, Speaker of Senate, GG), without the massive baggage of his Premiership and the fact he's from here in Toronto, and lets not forget his hissy fit this weekend.

Hell, Dominic probably knew more about the true workings of Canadian politics and Parliament before he could drive then most of us will ever know.

[jdobbin]

What I'm saying is that compared to Ignatieff and Rae, Leblanc's comportment so far is more appealing.

Based on what in the past session?

Oh yes, the obligatory reference to Obama. Maybe Obama is their version of Pierre Trudeau. Who's copying who?

Think my meaning is that even within the Liberal party, Leblanc has not had an enormous profile nor has he been thought of as a leader in waiting.

Those are in the past. It's the current one that gets the attention.

Convenient.

He has five and half months to raise his profile among Canadians. He's already getting plenty of media coverage.

Is he? I'll bet most Canadians don't even know who he is or that he is running. They still won't know five months from now. It is his profile among Liberals he has to increase first and while that is a given in a three person race, it is not likely enough to be considered as the new leader this time around.

Perhaps. But Ignatieff and Rae make better targets.

Utter baloney. The Tories probably are crossing their fingers that Leblanc is chosen because they will tie him so close to Trudeau and Chretien that it make his head spin.

Both were in the 2006 race. Only two years ago Chretienites and Martinites were in full force working for their preferred candidate. They haven't gone away. Even Warren Kinsella, one time Chretien staffer and war room advisor, is back as Ignatieff's champion. Plenty of "oldies" are still around.

Just as there are for the Tories. Remember that close friendship between Mulroney and Harper?

That's like saying that Justin Trudeau is from the old boys network, don't you think?

I'm sure that would have been the Tory smear campaign had he entered the race.

[capricorn]

Based on what in the past session?

Those are my observations on what I have seen and read so far on Leblanc. His ability to communicate has always impressed me. I'm not saying anyone else shares my views about him.

Think my meaning is that even within the Liberal party, Leblanc has not had an enormous profile nor has he been thought of as a leader in waiting.

Well I never thought of Dion as a leader in waiting and look what happened.

I'll bet most Canadians don't even know who he is or that he is running.

Probably.

Utter baloney. The Tories probably are crossing their fingers that Leblanc is chosen because they will tie him so close to Trudeau and Chretien that it make his head spin.

There's no underestimating that Conservative war room.

I'm sure that would have been the Tory smear campaign had he entered the race.

Of course. Plus the fact that Justin said if UFO aliens came to inhabit in Canada, they would enjoy the same Charter rights as other Canadians.

Edited November 17, 2008 by capricorn

[jdobbin]

Those are my observations on what I have seen and read so far on Leblanc. His ability to communicate has always impressed me. I'm not saying anyone else shares my views about him.

This run is more about next time and to position him well in a future Liberal cabinet. In that regard, it is worthwhile for him.

Well I never thought of Dion as a leader in waiting and look what happened.

Dion became the default candidate in an "anything but" campaign. It is possible that if Leblanc does well and has a certain amount of delegates, he can help chose the next leader. Leblanc might embrace that or he might see it in the same terms of what happened to Kennedy. In other words endorsing one person over the other could backfire on him. He might just release his delegates and be of value to whoever the next leader will be.

I certainly don't see Leblanc vaulting ahead with so little organization and funds now.

There's no underestimating that Conservative war room.

As I've said in the past, they could choose Jesus as the Liberal leader and the Tory warroom would say that the message of peace and love was a Commie plot.

Of course. Plus the fact that Justin said if UFO aliens came to inhabit in Canada, they would enjoy the same Charter rights as other Canadians.

No doubt the Tories have the commercial ready to go.

[capricorn]

This run is more about next time and to position him well in a future Liberal cabinet. In that regard, it is worthwhile for him.

The Liberal front benches would be stronger with him. (He's kinda cute too. )

As I've said in the past, they could choose Jesus as the Liberal leader and the Tory warroom would say that the message of peace and love was a Commie plot.

[Sir Bandelot]

The absolute worst choice would be Boob Rae. He acted like a complete imbecile yesterday when he showed up at the Liberal forum with his entourage, and then left. Sad attempt at a publicity stunt.

[blueblood]

This run is more about next time and to position him well in a future Liberal cabinet. In that regard, it is worthwhile for him.

Dion became the default candidate in an "anything but" campaign. It is possible that if Leblanc does well and has a certain amount of delegates, he can help chose the next leader. Leblanc might embrace that or he might see it in the same terms of what happened to Kennedy. In other words endorsing one person over the other could backfire on him. He might just release his delegates and be of value to whoever the next leader will be.

I certainly don't see Leblanc vaulting ahead with so little organization and funds now.

As I've said in the past, they could choose Jesus as the Liberal leader and the Tory warroom would say that the message of peace and love was a Commie plot.

No doubt the Tories have the commercial ready to go.

I think Leblanc is in it to be kingmaker. He has a hard choice to make. Dominic is skating on thin ice.

[White Doors]

Go Bob Rae!

[Sir Bandelot]

"LeBlanc has received considerable acclaim during his time in Parliament, particulaly his oratorical prowess while in Opposition. He was co-chair of the 2006 Liberal Party leadership convention in Montreal. He spoke for the party as Justice Critic against Stephen Harper's political libel suit, which the party and LeBlanc described as a "strategic lawsuit against public participation" and "a fundamental attack on freedom of political expression". At about this time, CTV commentator Mike Duffy revealed that LeBlanc was being touted as a potential successor to leader Stephane Dion."

Sounds like he has been considered as a potential "leader in waiting" at one time.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[jdobbin]

Sounds like he has been considered as a potential "leader in waiting" at one time.

He certainly was considered a potential for running as leader. However, his problem then as now is that he lacks the resources, money and organization that the main front runners do. This leadership run is all about positioning himself as the next leader. Both Rae and Ignatieff are no spring chickens.

[blueblood]

He certainly was considered a potential for running as leader. However, his problem then as now is that he lacks the resources, money and organization that the main front runners do. This leadership run is all about positioning himself as the next leader. Both Rae and Ignatieff are no spring chickens.

wouldn't that help him gain more power in the party by being a kingmaker for the next time around?

[capricorn]

Leblanc is looking to learn from Obama's campaign.

At 40, LeBlanc is a generation younger than Rae or Ignatieff, both 60, and he has spoken of the need for a generational change in the party's leadership.

That positioning echoes the successful theme of Obama's campaign to win the Democratic nomination and the White House.

But LeBlanc said he's under no illusion that he's like Obama.

"I think anybody who compares themselves to a once-in-a-generation phenomenon like Senator Obama will do so at their own peril," he said. "I don't have the presumption to make that comparison.

"However, I think Liberals need to learn from the success of his campaign and understand how we can modernize our political party by being inspired by his campaign."

To that end, LeBlanc met informally days ago with Jamal Simmons, a Democratic political analyst and Obama supporter who made frequent appearances on CNN in the last year.

Their hour-long session in Vancouver, arranged by mutual friends, allowed LeBlanc to gain some insights into how the Liberal party could benefit from Internet-based fundraising and social networking.

"The inspiration can come more from learning the keys to their success than from trying to emulate the person of Senator Obama," said LeBlanc.

http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/cityregion/article/484369

Obama's "5 dollar donation" internet appeal campaign was apparently quite successful. This type of approach to fundraising may be beneficial to the Liberals.