Huston Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Oh go smoke and shut up - just don't smoke 24 7 and make it a way of life. My point is that there is a time to party and a time to be serious. I have a wife that is a chronic smoker - and I don't have anyone to talk to...she gets stupid. At least she is getting acupunture treatment to remove here pot fixation...like I said - not all the time - just like alcohol and other substance...not all the time - I am 58 - and have done all the booze and dope on the planet and I survived in good health ----------------why? -----------------BECAUSE - I took time to take a break and heal and actually loved reality in it's plain form - and I did not do it ALL THE TIME _ APPARENTLY YOU DO> You tell me to shut up, and you are the bullying and and being presumptuous. Smoke all the time huh.. why not substantiate that? Escape Reality? Umm.. no... maybe you used it for that reason. But again.. this projection problem of yours needs to be addressed. Like seriously.. what is your problem? Why must you create strawmen about me. You're bullying... why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Proof in point - we are not talking about a "finacial crisis" - The theme today is about a constitutional crisis - see ---you are in dream land. Welcome Huston, glad to have ya here at MLW. Maybe when these cons are gone we can get some sensible government policy with regards to ending this immoral war on our freedoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Like seriously.. what is your problem? Why must you create strawmen about me. You're bullying... why? The Gin is kicked in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Oh go smoke and shut up - just don't smoke 24 7 and make it a way of life. My point is that there is a time to party and a time to be serious. I have a wife that is a chronic smoker - and I don't have anyone to talk to...she gets stupid. At least she is getting acupunture treatment to remove here pot fixation...like I said - not all the time - just like alcohol and other substance...not all the time - I am 58 - and have done all the booze and dope on the planet and I survived in good health ----------------why? -----------------BECAUSE - I took time to take a break and heal and actually loved reality in it's plain form - and I did not do it ALL THE TIME _ APPARENTLY YOU DO> One might call you irresponsible for even trying all those drugs you say you tried. People who have control over their habit lead productive lives. I smoke every day, when I get home. Relaxes me like a beer does. I have relatives who love wine, and drink quite a bit of it. Yes at times we all get excessive, but that is part of letting loose and enjoying yourself and your life. Everyone in my family at this time is leading very productive lives. The real moral of this story is DON'T BE STUPID !!!!!! Have common sense about your habits. If you drink alcohol or smoke before/at work, then you deserve what you get plain and simple. Smart people don't have this problem. Police yourself before you police others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huston Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) Nicely said. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 One might call you irresponsible for even trying all those drugs you say you tried. People who have control over their habit lead productive lives. The real moral of this story is DON'T BE STUPID !!!!!! Have common sense about your habits. If you drink alcohol or smoke before/at work, then you deserve what you get plain and simple. Smart people don't have this problem. Police yourself before you police others. I agree this was well said. I guess not everyone is smart and can control their habit. We put a lot of resources and attention on "helping" people on drugs? Do they not need or want help? Are those wishing to help being judgmental about drugs? You are saying the people on the street using drugs or anyone not in control of their habit are stupid. Should we have clinics they can go to or not? Can they police themselves? Are those that work to salvage those not in control of their habit just self-righteous do-gooders involved in "policing" others? "Police yourself before you police others." - sounds a little "Libertarian", GostHacked and that's not like you - it seems that perspective is assumed by people only when it concerns their habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) First one has to help themselves before anyone else can even step in to help. It is almost a reverse effect of forcing the help on others. We can always say it is not their fault, which scapegoats the problem and allows them to continue the habit, because we say it is not their fault they cannot control it. This is not a resolution to the problem, it contributes to it. YES it is your fault. Now what are you going to do to change it? When you start putting the power back into a person to control their life, everything else is easier. So I say it IS their problem, or else it would not BE a problem. Food, shelter and warm clean clothes are what is important in peoples lives. I had an uncle that died at the young age of 19. Drug overdose. I was about 10 at the time. Unfortunately not everyone learns from lessons like those. I am a strong advocator of policing yourself. Kind of like the do unto others. I was dumb with my drug use. No one to blame but myself. I understand that this is not always the case. It is a slippery slope, and for some, it is a fall off a cliff. I also have discovered the 'libertarian' in me in the past few years. Not everyone is smart, or can be smart about it. For me, I know if I started cocaine or heroine, there is a strong chance I am going to be hooked for life which would ruin me. So far, I have managed to stay far away from it. This is knowing yourself and your limits. If I like something, I like it alot and tend to do it alot. I know I would like coke and heroine, so knowing the risks and understanding that is key. I am not self righteous in it, but if a schmuck like me can get his pot habit under control, anyone can get anything under control. What do you want out of life? What do you REALLY want out of life? Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Opium - that's what I would like - and I want to be a dandy 1800s British cool guy in a silk smoking jacket all sprawled out in dream land chasing some pink dragon...and waiting for my butler to check the mail to see if the monthly trust money has arrived yet...Thank goodness that our troops are fighting to ensure a good supply of opium. Forget pot - Opium is the way to go - it's soooo relaxing and you never have to see the dentist ever again Cos nothing hurts. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 It has probably all been addressed, but I support the regulation of marijuana for many reasons: Financial: -Increased federal revenues from taxation -Decreased government costs from enforcement (could be re-allocated to more violent/pressing issues) -New crop industry for farming communities -Other useful products can be made from hemp production (clothing, paper, rope, etc...) -Recapture money from the black market Safety: -Forcing otherwise law abiding citizens to sometimes deal with organized crime -Safety/quality not regulated as is the case with other drugs and food -Less addictive than cigarettes according to studies -When smoked through a water pipe, cleaner than cigarettes -Alcohol is largely associated with domestic violence, oth marijuana makes users lethargic Prohibition Unsuccessful: -Although illegal, still widely available -Most people don't see it as a criminal activity -Drugs that are arguably more harmful are regulated and legalized (ie: cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, etc.) -Class-based legislation which aims to rob the youth and working-class of an escape from the drudgery of the daily grind -Money being lost to underground ventures, which often time involve stripping residential homes and stealing power from the grid -Possible medical benefits have seen it de-regulated for medicinal purposes in many places Personally, I don't think there is any reason to continue the prohibition of marijuana. I haven't read through this entire thread, but I really don't understand what reasoning a person could use for its criminalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 (edited) I can tell you are reaching retirement. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) I think you are missing the point of my post. And whatever it is you are on, you might want to reconsider. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) Yes, it seems so self-evident, doesn't it? Don't count on the knuckle-draggers in the current government to do anything other than further pursue the failed policies of prohibition. I think there was a window of opportunity when Chretien was in power but he was probably too afraid of the US reaction. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) If the prohibition of alcohol has taught us anything, it's that decriminalization of drugs needs to be a joint effort between both the United States and Canada. If marijuana were to be regulated in Canada, yet it was still illegal in the US, you would still have organized crime smuggling it into the states. The last thing Canada needs is to revisit the nightmare that was rum-running during the 1920s. Although I agree that it should be legalized and regulated, I think it has to be something that the United States takes on at the same time as well. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Has Amsterdam found morality? http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/12/06...e.ap/index.html You can't give government license to regulate these drugs. Ten or twenty years form now they will be doing the same thing they are doing in Amsterdam. They license and regulate cigarettes and they will do the same thing to marijuana as they are doing to cigarettes today. They should not make any laws regarding these drugs and their use among adults. As soon as they have the license to regulate then your "right" to "put whatever you wish into your body" is gone. I will say that you should realize what drugs are before you decide to use them. They have a use and mostly it is to dull senses and cloud thinking and cognitive processes. Some of the worst ones, such as ecstasy, can lead to permanent brain damage and death. I don't have too much of an issue with marijuana used occasionally. The active ingredient does get lodged into the body cells which can unexpectedly, especially at adverse times like when one is physically or mentally stressed, be released and create unwanted effects when clarity of thought may be crucial. We all know alcohol makes you stupid and acts as a depressant. So we aren't defending that and there is no argument about the pros and cons of different drugs. We are talking about the criminalization of people for vices. Now the abuse of drugs is another story and usually results in criminal activity that affects others and it cannot be denied it is criminal when it contributes to such. The criminality resulting from the abuse of drugs must be deemed criminal and drugs must not be used as an excuse or justification to mitigate criminal behavior. That would be the responsibility of drug users if there is freedom to "put into one's body what one wishes". Something that advocates for the decriminalization of drugs may not wish to bear. Wish I had more time - gotta go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) We have already legalized wife and husband swapping - and corruption in the courts - some want to make it legal for them to have sex with children....don't you think we have made enough bad things legal to last us a while? Ask yourself this question - does dope make your life better or worse? As this question - does forcing poor attractive woman into the sex slave trade make things better or worse - I know this over 40 dancer hooker type - Her career is over - she's on welfare and is starving to death...who is going to take care of old hookers in the end? YOU..........................! Will you invite the 50 year old drug addict into your house this Christmas - will you welcome in the decaying and depressed and disguarded prostitute? Probably not - so why encourage now what will be tragic in the future - This is not freedom to be an addict or a hooker - It is the lowest form of human abuse and slavery. Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Do a series of rambling non-sequitirs make a convincing argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Only to Oleg Bach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 We have already legalized wife and husband swapping - and corruption in the courts - some want to make it legal for them to have sex with children....don't you think we have made enough bad things legal to last us a while? Ask yourself this question - does dope make your life better or worse? People don't have to ask any questions about drugs and that is the crux of the problem. The State, in assuming the role of parent, will determine for you what you can and can't consume. There is no need for you to know anything about drugs, the State knows so you don't have to. All you have to know is which ones you will be punished for using without a prescription. As(k) this question - does forcing poor attractive woman into the sex slave trade make things better or worse(?) A rather rhetorical question. Forcing an adult to do something implies it is against their will. Obviously the answer is "worse" - because then they can claim victim status. - I know this over 40 dancer hooker type - Her career is over - she's on welfare and is starving to death...who is going to take care of old hookers in the end? YOU..........................! Will you invite the 50 year old drug addict into your house this Christmas - will you welcome in the decaying and depressed and disguarded prostitute? Probably not - so why encourage now what will be tragic in the future - This is not freedom to be an addict or a hooker - It is the lowest form of human abuse and slavery. You are one of those rare individuals who can see a relationship between cause and effect. Someone who can predict the future from actions taken in the present. I don't really have to take "personal" responsibility for taking care of old hookers but I do resent the government extracting money from the economy to fund it. It is definitely not freedom to be an addict or a hooker and I don't encourage it. I wish people to be responsible to themselves and society and they should expect no aid for choices they make in their lives except from those who sincerely wish to help them. Government is never sincere except to it's own interests, and their interests socially are solely based upon their aggrandizement. It is too bad about ReeferMadness and cybercoma who see only non-sequitor ramblings here with no connection to the topic. Not much depth to their arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 You need to face the reality that our system is setup such that tax dollars pay for medical care and support programs in this country. That you would rather the business be underground, causing violence and even more health problems as a result, just means you're going to spend more tax dollars on it now. Furthermore, all of the problems you associate with drug use are still being faced by our government and society because prohibition is an utter failure. On top of spending money combating a problem they are never going to win, they are missing out on the opportunity to regulate and create revenue from a relatively safe form of relaxation. The government regulates alcohol and tobacco, which are arguably worse than marijuana. Drunk driving, domestic violence and lung cancer are all directly related to their consumption. The government won't ban them again though, because people will go out of their way to find it anyway. The revenues made off these drugs are extensive, so you personally do not provide as much funding into the system that supports these "users" as those that are using the drugs. Their personal responsibility is in the tax dollars spent on regulated products. That we have socialized healthcare is a benefit to everyone in Canada and I can only assume that your model of "personal responsibility" would look to take that away from Canadians. It's a good thing your values are not the norm in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 You need to face the reality that our system is setup such that tax dollars pay for medical care and support programs in this country. That you would rather the business be underground, causing violence and even more health problems as a result, just means you're going to spend more tax dollars on it now. Agreed. The money is spent on law enforcement and imprisonment. You can only cure what is on your radar. And if everything is done underground, then you are always going to be combating the effects of it being underground. Needing more law enforcement and places to put these people. Treat this different and you can not only cure/fix the problem, the government could stand to make a shit tonne of taxing and regulating this. But for people like me, I'd just grow it if it were legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Allowances for amounts under 1oz to 1,5oz are good measures and fines for amounts up to a qp are valid but not more. I would actually support some form of prostitution if it is done off our streets and done tastefully and tax it, have licenses, regular testing etc. Regulate it. t the same time stiffen the penalties for street level hookers and pimps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Allowances for amounts under 1oz to 1,5oz are good measures and fines for amounts up to a qp are valid but not more.I would actually support some form of prostitution if it is done off our streets and done tastefully and tax it, have licenses, regular testing etc. Regulate it. t the same time stiffen the penalties for street level hookers and pimps. Move to Amsterdamn...................Society should be looking for ways that leave a road open from prostitution....no woman want to be a hooker...on the street level - and some that are married - are married hookers in a relationship with a husband that is based on her prostituting herself - the average suburban wife is a hooker....but a well paid for one and taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 ..no woman want to be a hooker... so you speak for all women now Oleg? Personally I wouldn't mind having sex a couple times a day and earning ten times what 8 hours of flipping burgers pays. Why don't we let individuals decide for themselves what they want to be instead of telling them what they want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 so you speak for all women now Oleg?Personally I wouldn't mind having sex a couple times a day and earning ten times what 8 hours of flipping burgers pays. Why don't we let individuals decide for themselves what they want to be instead of telling them what they want? Apparently you don't - who speaks for woman these days and who protects them - the womans' movement that has faded and now only serves them selves and has abandoned their sisters. - Honestly - if the money was right would you bend over and take it in the butt for a good buck? Really guy..get with it - Hooking is a heartbreaking profession and one that comes from desperation - How would you like to have some greasy smelly drunken carpenter mount you so you could buy your supper or feed your kids - it's a disgrace and you can not rationalize any different...It's bad...for the client and the hooker. Honest and good relationships between the sexes is what brings about health - not tossing money at the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Apparently you don't - who speaks for woman these days and who protects them - the womans' movement that has faded and now only serves them selves and has abandoned their sisters. - Honestly - if the money was right would you bend over and take it in the butt for a good buck? Really guy..get with it - Hooking is a heartbreaking profession and one that comes from desperation - How would you like to have some greasy smelly drunken carpenter mount you so you could buy your supper or feed your kids - it's a disgrace and you can not rationalize any different...It's bad...for the client and the hooker. Honest and good relationships between the sexes is what brings about health - not tossing money at the problem. You are showing your ignorance again Oleg. What you describe is prostitution in a black market setting. In a legal regulated environment, a prostitute could just say NO to anything she didn't want to do. She could say no to anal just like I do. I actually think anal sex is gross hetero, or homo style. She could pick an chose her customers for herself, and would not have a "pimp" to "protect" or coerce her into doing something she is uncomfortable with. So no i wouldn't take it in the butt for a good buck, but I might be financially convinced to show an overweight girl, or an older lady a good time., lol It couldn't be any worse than shovelling pigshit for 8 bucks an hour and I've done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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