Senior Tory spokesman suspended

[White Doors]

perhaps former. i'd say, knowing people actually currently serving, that the Libs have the advantage with the enlisted.

I highly doubt that. The Liberals let the whole armed forces rust out for 40 years. Harper is actually trying to re-build it's capability.

[thermo]

I highly doubt that. The Liberals let the whole armed forces rust out for 40 years. Harper is actually trying to re-build it's capability.

well either way is wild speculation on both our parts. but with people currently involved with the military it's been a much more "what have you done for me lately" attitude, I'd say. while the Cons have pumped way more money into the military they've also disrespected them in the ways I listed earlier.

[Argus]

And your personal attacks are why people assume you follow the Harper tactic of attack, attack, attack. The posts are generally filled with so much bile, anger and hatred that it is a wonder that doctors don't diagnose an ulcer just from reading through it.

That you would think so is merely an indication of your poor understanding of human nature and the demonizing of your opponents which is typical of the ideological left. I don't hate any of these people. I have a certain measure of contempt for them, of course, but it's the same contempt any learned and intelligent man has for fools. There's simply no bile or hate in there.

[Argus]

perhaps former. i'd say, knowing people actually currently serving, that the Libs have the advantage with the enlisted.

Not a chance. The Liberals have nothing but utter contempt for the military. They've shown that for decades. Not only do Liberal governments shortchange the military in every conceivable way but a lot of liberal supporters tend to think military people are ignorant and violently minded goons and killers. That is the base Dion was playing to when he decided to oppose the Afghanistan mission his own party had started. The military knows Harper hasn't done enough for him, but he's still given them more respect and more attention than any government since Pearson.

[thermo]

a lot of liberal supporters tend to think military people are ignorant and violently minded goons and killers. That is the base Dion was playing to

that is utter nonsense.

[Moonbox]

Harper said he would do it differently this election but as Andrew Cohen said yesterday, he really can't help himself.

You probably haven't seen enough of my posts in various threads about how stupid the negative campaign was and how incompetent it was.

My issue was the justification for it which some people seem to still be arguing here.

Personally I can't justify it any further than saying it's really just throwing the Liberal tactics of 2004 and 2006 right back in their faces. Like I've said many times, I don't think Harper can claim moral high ground on some of the issues, but I don't think anyone can. The "Dion is not a Leader" tactics I'm betting will work quite well. They're not trying to turn him into a monster like the Liberals tried to with Harper. They're saying he's a bumbling and ineffective leader and they have plenty of examples to back that up with.

[HisSelf]

What am I missing? Harper hires Guy Digiorno, who is famous for this kind of crap and then he fires this guy. Looks like a little confusion in the Harper ranks, methinks.

[jdobbin]

Personally I can't justify it any further than saying it's really just throwing the Liberal tactics of 2004 and 2006 right back in their faces. Like I've said many times, I don't think Harper can claim moral high ground on some of the issues, but I don't think anyone can.

Seems he and many of the Tory supporters said it was going to be different with Harper.

Is it no wonder that people get cynical when Harper lets the war room run around with juvenile activities?

The "Dion is not a Leader" tactics I'm betting will work quite well. They're not trying to turn him into a monster like the Liberals tried to with Harper. They're saying he's a bumbling and ineffective leader and they have plenty of examples to back that up with.

The whole website has been re-tooled for over the top antics. I think people say plenty of examples to back that up.

[jdobbin]

That you would think so is merely an indication of your poor understanding of human nature and the demonizing of your opponents which is typical of the ideological left. I don't hate any of these people. I have a certain measure of contempt for them, of course, but it's the same contempt any learned and intelligent man has for fools. There's simply no bile or hate in there.

Your personalizing of responses generally shows contempt for the rules of the forum.

[Moonbox]

Seems he and many of the Tory supporters said it was going to be different with Harper.

and after two elections in which Harper was demonized by the Liberals, you somehow find it scandalous that he would focus Canada's attention on an assinine Carbon Tax plan that Canada doesn't want and the bumbling fool of a Liberal Leader who suggested it.

Is it no wonder that people get cynical when Harper lets the war room run around with juvenile activities?

The whole website has been re-tooled for over the top antics. I think people say plenty of examples to back that up.

You're ignoring everything everyone is saying! You CANNOT muzzle every member of your party. Sooner or later one of your representatives WILL say something idiotic for the simple fact that you can't be in all of their heads. EVERY party has idiots making spectacles of themselves and the Liberals have had one recently themselves. I don't call the Liberal Party sexist because one of their MP's was telling his opponent to go back to making tea and biscuits for her man do I?

No! I notice that he was forced by his party to apologize. Let his riding decide if they want to vote him back in but don't make broad and baseless conclusions on a whole party just because it suits your political view. That's the definition of ignorance.

[DrGreenthumb]

The only issue you ever talk about is your desire to smoke more pot, and you sound stupid in every post.

You kind of make yourself sound stupid by replying to my post that makes no mention of pot, saying that pot is all i ever talk about. In this post for instance I was talking about Harper and the conservatives complete lack of openness and transparency. Harper has been the most sneaky, devious and dictatorial prime minister Canada has ever had. easier to call me a pothead than try to respond to the truth isn't it? You sound a lot like a bigot when you say things like that.

you can never respond with a reasoned argument to any of my posts, so you choose to attack me with pothead references constantly. My doctor reccomends cannabis to treat my severe arthritis, why should I have to put up with your insults because you are ignorant about the beneficial effects of this very effective medicine??

[Moonbox]

you can never respond with a reasoned argument to any of my posts

which you yourself constantly fail to do. Your response included:

Harper has been the most sneaky, devious and dictatorial prime minister Canada has ever had."

When you start using rhetoric like this, particularly big scary words like 'dictatorial' you lose all credibility to any argument you might have been trying to make. Referring to the leader of a MINORITY DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT under a British Parliamentary system as a dictator is a clear sign of failure in intelligent reasoning and a resortment to passionate and baseless rhetoric.

[jdobbin]

and after two elections in which Harper was demonized by the Liberals, you somehow find it scandalous that he would focus Canada's attention on an assinine Carbon Tax plan that Canada doesn't want and the bumbling fool of a Liberal Leader who suggested it.

I'm saying the Harper team is directed from the top and the word was attack.

You're ignoring everything everyone is saying! You CANNOT muzzle every member of your party. Sooner or later one of your representatives WILL say something idiotic for the simple fact that you can't be in all of their heads. EVERY party has idiots making spectacles of themselves and the Liberals have had one recently themselves. I don't call the Liberal Party sexist because one of their MP's was telling his opponent to go back to making tea and biscuits for her man do I?

No! I notice that he was forced by his party to apologize. Let his riding decide if they want to vote him back in but don't make broad and baseless conclusions on a whole party just because it suits your political view. That's the definition of ignorance.

I think the Tories have sued over what the Liberals had on their web page. I'm assuming they held the hold party to account.

[DrGreenthumb]

which you yourself constantly fail to do. Your response included:

When you start using rhetoric like this, particularly big scary words like 'dictatorial' you lose all credibility to any argument you might have been trying to make. Referring to the leader of a MINORITY DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT under a British Parliamentary system as a dictator is a clear sign of failure in intelligent reasoning and a resortment to passionate and baseless rhetoric.

Harper has and does act in a dictatorial manner. He acts this way with his own parties candidates and MP's, with the press and is a bully in the house of commons. The fact that he wasn't happy with a minority gov't even with a weak opposition from the liberals, just goes to show that he lusts for MORE power and MORE control. I stand by my observation that Harper is a paternalistic authoritarian who wants to dictate to Canadians how to live. His social conservative agenda will come out in full force if he ever gets a majority. Check out the facebook group called "anti harper vote swap" to see how you can do your part to defeat the far right wing conservatives in the upcoming election

[M.Dancer]

True. No leader in a minority position ever wanted to turn it into a majority. No never, Harper is the first....bad Harper, bad....

[Wilber]

I tend to agree with Davis. A lot can change in over two years. We may find that there are very good reasons for staying in Afghanistan past 2011. Committing to their removal this far in advance seems ill advised unless it is to get some of our "allies" off their collective asses.

[Moonbox]

Harper has and does act in a dictatorial manner. He acts this way with his own parties candidates and MP's, with the press and is a bully in the house of commons. The fact that he wasn't happy with a minority gov't even with a weak opposition from the liberals, just goes to show that he lusts for MORE power and MORE control. I stand by my observation that Harper is a paternalistic authoritarian who wants to dictate to Canadians how to live. His social conservative agenda will come out in full force if he ever gets a majority. Check out the facebook group called "anti harper vote swap" to see how you can do your part to defeat the far right wing conservatives in the upcoming election

You're only making yourself look worse here. I said you can't support your own opinion and that you're just flinging useless rhetoric and scary words at us. You responded with more useless rhetoric and bigger scary words.

You're 'observation' is about as useful as a poo-flavored lolipop if you can't provide any relevant support for it. I'm starting to think the more I read your posts that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about 95% of the time you post.

[Wild Bill]

You're only making yourself look worse here. I said you can't support your own opinion and that you're just flinging useless rhetoric and scary words at us. You responded with more useless rhetoric and bigger scary words.

You're 'observation' is about as useful as a poo-flavored lolipop if you can't provide any relevant support for it. I'm starting to think the more I read your posts that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about 95% of the time you post.

+1! Sadly, while I agree in general with the good Doctor's goals I just can't see him ever attaining them with emotional rather than practical approaches. A cheerleader, not a quarterback.

I admire his passion but would look elsewhere for a champion. The Libertarians might be the faint hope but Canada is not likely ready for the rest of their political platform. However it comes about, it will take those possessing both leadership and the political power to make it happen. That would seem to indicate it must come from within a traditional governing party. That party would obviously have to be in a comfortable majority position in national popularity to risk it.

[Argus]

From wanting to match them into Iraq, to refusing to lower the flag for fallen troops, to barring any media from funeral/return ceremonies - I can tell you the people I know in the military are not exactly Harpers biggest fans at this point!

I seriously doubt you know anyone in the military. If you did you'd have a better grasp about what the military though about that absurd flag lowering nonsense.

[Joesixpack5]

Typical Neo-Con Chickenhawks... treating soldiers as cannon fodder for their imperialistic nation smashing.

[Argus]

Yes. I know that. But Harper started off by banning them outright. After a lot of outcry he decided to revise his position.

The outcry didn't come from the families, though, or the mlitary.

It came from the media and the opposition, both of whom had an eager interest in making a public spectacle of sobbing relatives and dead soldiers.

[CANADIEN]

The only thing I could expect from the NDP would be to take away my money and send me to re-education camp. No thanks.

Nope, they'll make you a slave.

Edited September 13, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Argus]

The plain expression of the facts though is that the Harper team in the war room have been acting off script or somehow seem to have approval to be more negative. Harper said so himself this morning that the war room was acting out and since he is the boss, he has to be responsible for getting them under control.

How I antagonized someone to the point that they say this is a gutter response and that they personalize the post to me is over the top.

It's interesting that as a Liberal, you are in character in that honesty is simply not something you consider to be of any importance.

What you actually said was to refer to "The harper team" and "They" in denouncing what an individual staffer said about a dead soldier's father, clearly and obviously attempting to smear the entire party with one individual's error.

The equivalent would be if I denounced the "Dion team" for writing a letter of commendation for a vicious, violent international drug trafficker and gangster in BC who is facing sentencing in the US.

"The Dion team, in attempting to get a soft sentence for a brutal violent gangster, is demonstrating just how little it cares about dealing with violent offenders in Canada, and how friendly it is with organized crime figures."

Of course, I would never attribute the moronic mistake of a Liberal Party MP with the entire party - though of course, Dion has said nothing about this, nor demanded any kind of apology or offered up any sanction for the BC Liberal who did this.

[Argus]

You kind of make yourself sound stupid by replying to my post that makes no mention of pot, saying that pot is all i ever talk about. In this post for instance I was talking about Harper and the conservatives complete lack of openness and transparency. Harper has been the most sneaky, devious and dictatorial prime minister Canada has ever had. easier to call me a pothead than try to respond to the truth isn't it? You sound a lot like a bigot when you say things like that.

you can never respond with a reasoned argument to any of my posts, so you choose to attack me with pothead references constantly. My doctor reccomends cannabis to treat my severe arthritis, why should I have to put up with your insults because you are ignorant about the beneficial effects of this very effective medicine??

I"m not insulting you, I'm insulting your shrill, emotional, whiny, accusatory and just plain stupid posts. Forgive me if that offends you.

If you put a little more reasoning into your posts, presuming you are capable of doing so, perhaps people would respond with reason.

[Argus]

I'm saying the Harper team is directed from the top and the word was attack.

Even before this election began the media was saying that Dion was clearly intending to take the low road, in that Harper is much admired by the Canadian people and they needed to bring him down. Insiders with the Liberal Party had already confirmed to the media that they had a slew of nasty attack ads ready to air, and Dion himself set the tone by calling Harper names on practically the first day of the campaign. I've just seen the first NDP ad this morning and it too is a nasty attack ad. The Tories are a party which could actually run on the issues if it chose. But as the Liberals and NDP have nothing much to offer, dirt is about all they can throw out.