More gun control urged

[myata]

Dawson coroner report

Among the recommendations:

Ramsay also said health and education professionals, such as a school principal, should be able to have access to the federal and Quebec gun registries as part of protocols to prevent future rampages.

Contrast to Conservatives plans to quietly bury the gun registry or making it unusable by refusing to enforce compliance.

The coroner said in his report that the weapon used by Gill, a short-barrelled Beretta CX4 Storm rifle, should be banned. Gill obtained the gun legally before his rampage.

Ramsay said assault rifles such as that used by Gill, which has its ammunition clip behind the trigger, should not be available to the public.

Contrast to Conservatives visible lack of interest whenever specific gun control measures are called for (handgun ban; marking of imported guns).

So what is the realistic practical way to fight gun crime? Could it be Conservative's "tough on criminals, lax on guns" fearmongering? Should it be made an election issue too?

[Alta4ever]

Dawson coroner report

Among the recommendations:

Contrast to Conservatives plans to quietly bury the gun registry or making it unusable by refusing to enforce compliance.

Contrast to Conservatives visible lack of interest whenever specific gun control measures are called for (handgun ban; marking of imported guns).

So what is the realistic practical way to fight gun crime? Could it be Conservative's "tough on criminals, lax on guns" fearmongering? Should it be made an election issue too?

I'm willing to bet those guns wouldnot have been registered anyway.

[Wild Bill]

I'm willing to bet those guns wouldnot have been registered anyway.

Same old, same old. Somebody screaming for "Action! I want something done!"

They never say "effective action". That is just taken for granted. So everybody is so proud that they are on the "right side" but nothing that WORKS ever happens!

In fact, usually the loudest voices demanding "Action" are the same voices against anything that actually might work!

[AngusThermopyle]

Ramsay said assault rifles such as that used by Gill, which has its ammunition clip behind the trigger, should not be available to the public.

This guy is an idiot. We don't have Assault Rifles in Canada expect for the use of government agencies. Further to that, why would he consider a Bullpup configuration to be inherently more dangerous than a conventional design?

Given that semi-auto is all you can own in Canada and five round clips are all you can own what the hell difference does a Bullpup config. make?

[M.Dancer]

This guy is an idiot. We don't have Assault Rifles in Canada expect for the use of government agencies. Further to that, why would he consider a Bullpup configuration to be inherently more dangerous than a conventional design?

Given that semi-auto is all you can own in Canada and five round clips are all you can own what the hell difference does a Bullpup config. make?

I can answer that. The reason (and now this is outdated) that there is a minimum barrel length on riflels and shotguns iis about the concern that a weapon can be easily concealed. The Bullpup design keeps the barrel the required length but by placing the breach and magazine behind the trigger it reduces the over all length of the firearm allowing it to be easily concealed...

The design makes perfect sense on the battlefield especially for mechanized infantry but there is no reason why a civilian needs one.

[AngusThermopyle]

Ahhh, you're right, I'd forgotten about the barrel length restrictions on rifles.

It does make sense as far as concealment goes. So how are they going to discourage the use of sawn off shotguns? They're already illegal and unregisterable but a sh*t load always turn up in the criminal underworld.

[M.Dancer]

Ahhh, you're right, I'd forgotten about the barrel length restrictions on rifles.

It does make sense as far as concealment goes. So how are they going to discourage the use of sawn off shotguns? They're already illegal and unregisterable but a sh*t load always turn up in the criminal underworld.

You can't do anything more than to make them illegal. But clearly the Bullpup while conforming to the letter of the law (in the civilian mode) breaks the intent.

Other than that I believe the Brits love them. I can remember jumping out the back of the grizzly wishing I had a Sterling insead of an FN and being thnakful I didn't have the C2.

On the otherhand, more than one person has shot himself with a Steling jumping oout the back of a vehicle....while with an FN you were more likely to shot someone else....it's all about over all length.

[segnosaur]

Dawson coroner report

Among the recommendations:

Ramsay also said health and education professionals, such as a school principal, should be able to have access to the federal and Quebec gun registries as part of protocols to prevent future rampages.

Ok, first problem... how exactly would giving access to the gun registry to the principal actually help in that situation? Would he ban students who might own firearms? What about situations where a parent might own firearms? Really, I can't really see any use for giving wider access.

Second problem with that idea: There are already concerns by oponents that the gun registry is both an invasion of privacy, and such a database can be used by criminals who wish to find guns to steal. Even if the registry had useful information, shouldn't they restrict it to only key people in order to prevent abuse of the information?

The coroner said in his report that the weapon used by Gill, a short-barrelled Beretta CX4 Storm rifle, should be banned. Gill obtained the gun legally before his rampage.

Here we have more problems...

If you read through the article, it also points out: Ramsay said Gill suffered from psychological problems such as recurring anxiety, hypersensitivity and depression.. So, the problem here was not necessarily a lack of access to the registry or the type of weapon he had access to... this individual shouldn't have access to ANY firearm.

Contrast to Conservatives visible lack of interest whenever specific gun control measures are called for (handgun ban; marking of imported guns).

On the other hand, the conservatives have, in the past, supported stronger penalties for people who use guns during crimes, safe gun storage laws, and laws targeting smuggling of firearms. Those policies tend to focus more on the real problem individuals, rather than blanket policies which affect guilty and innocent alike.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/conservat...sguncontrol.htm

You see, we're never going to have a perfectly safe society. Just like many other risks that exist today, we accept some of the danger because it somehow improves the overall quality of life... We don't ban swimming pools (even though many people drown every year); we don't ban private car ownership (even though many people die in car accidents). Guns should be viewed in the same way; as something that enhances the life of millions of Canadians (many of whom use the gun for practical reasons such as eliminating pests from farms, others who use them for pleasure).

So what is the realistic practical way to fight gun crime?

The conservative policies put forward in the last election are a pretty good start... punish the people who actually, you know, do things WRONG.

[FTA Lawyer]

Someone who is a big supporter of increased gun control, please explain to me one possible way that a school principal having access to the federal firearms registry would prevent a shooting tragedy.

Perhaps if so many in society were not so bloody stupid, we wouldn't have the rampages at all!

FTA

[Wild Bill]

Someone who is a big supporter of increased gun control, please explain to me one possible way that a school principal having access to the federal firearms registry would prevent a shooting tragedy.

Perhaps if so many in society were not so bloody stupid, we wouldn't have the rampages at all!

FTA

"Intelligence is a constant divided by the number of people in the group."

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the baseline stupidity level to improve. Once the typical grade school graduate could read Latin, sheet music and had a reasonable grasp of practical mathematics.

Now he has unfounded opinions as to who will be the new addition to the Pussy Cat Dolls.

Oh well, if my granny had wheels she wouldn't bump her ass when she hopped...

We have to deal with the world as it is if we have any chance of changing it.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Wild Bill

[myata]

Someone who is a big supporter of increased gun control, please explain to me one possible way that a school principal having access to the federal firearms registry would prevent a shooting tragedy.

Suppose a student shows signs of asocial behaviour; repeated signs; wouldn't it be in the interests of everybody's safety to be able to check if they by chance also happen to have accumulated a small arsenal of firearms?

Perhaps if so many in society were not so bloody stupid, we wouldn't have the rampages at all!

FTA

Right, right. Wishful thinking plus letting everybody who feels like it to arm to their hearts' desire - that's a sure way to deal with gun crime problems.

[GostHacked]

At what age can you legaly own a gun?? It is 18. You can get a permit to use a gun under 18, but not to own one. Those kids wont be in the registry. Their parents might be... so what do you do then?

Why not just look into the registry of every student in your school before fall classes start? Why not just prevent those people from showing up to classes. Ugh.

Illegaly owned guns do NOT show up on the legal gun registry. Those are the guns and people you need to concern yourself with. But it always seems that the people living by the rules, always get more restrictions put on them because of the few that ruin it for the rest of us.

If jonnhy is being bad and has an illegal gun, deal with jonny and the gun. Will jonny be in the registry?

[myata]

The guy was in a college (Dawson - rings some bells?) and had several legally owned guns.

[Shakeyhands]

At what age can you legaly own a gun?? It is 18. You can get a permit to use a gun under 18, but not to own one. Those kids wont be in the registry. Their parents might be... so what do you do then?

Why not just look into the registry of every student in your school before fall classes start? Why not just prevent those people from showing up to classes. Ugh.

Illegaly owned guns do NOT show up on the legal gun registry. Those are the guns and people you need to concern yourself with. But it always seems that the people living by the rules, always get more restrictions put on them because of the few that ruin it for the rest of us.

If jonnhy is being bad and has an illegal gun, deal with jonny and the gun. Will jonny be in the registry?

Gill obtained the gun legally before his rampage.

[jdobbin]

The coroner made some useful recommendation and less useful ones.

Better emergency response is a useful recommendation. I'd go farther and suggest that each school should have an emergency response for various events. In all the years I went to university, I don't even think fire safety was discussed.

The recommendations on the guns are less useful. I think only police should have access to the gun registry. There is too much room for abuse my educators having access to it.

I know that the Tories want to get rid of the registry. I believe if they really support the police, they should evaluate it as it now stands to see if it is effective for police use now.

[myata]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair. Aka "tough justice"model. Asking whether it achieves the oals (that is, reducing crime, as opposed to having population live in constant fear, of criminal or an angry neighbour) is irrelevant because much (all?) what socially conservative Tories do, is based on opinion and belief.

[blueblood]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair. Aka "tough justice"model. Asking whether it achieves the oals (that is, reducing crime, as opposed to having population live in constant fear, of criminal or an angry neighbour) is irrelevant because much (all?) what socially conservative Tories do, is based on opinion and belief.

Why not? in the forties fifties and sixties, crime in Canada wasn't too much of a problem. They must have been doing something right.

[HisSelf]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair. Aka "tough justice"model. Asking whether it achieves the oals (that is, reducing crime, as opposed to having population live in constant fear, of criminal or an angry neighbour) is irrelevant because much (all?) what socially conservative Tories do, is based on opinion and belief.

I thought it was interesting that a bunch of Toronto Drug cops got off on major charges because the Crown dragged its feet on prosecution.

Harper is naive about the justice system. This is a guy who has a law degree but never practised. Now he's making decisions about Supreme Court appointments. Yikes.

[Smallc]

I thought it was interesting that a bunch of Toronto Drug cops got off on major charges because the Crown dragged its feet on prosecution.

Harper is naive about the justice system. This is a guy who has a law degree but never practised. Now he's making decisions about Supreme Court appointments. Yikes.

The Prime Minister is an Economist, not a Lawyer.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Canadian Blue]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair. Aka "tough justice"model. Asking whether it achieves the oals (that is, reducing crime, as opposed to having population live in constant fear, of criminal or an angry neighbour) is irrelevant because much (all?) what socially conservative Tories do, is based on opinion and belief.

What incoherent ramblings. First things first, I doubt the government will hand out guns, however the crux of the matter is whether the government maintains that citizens should be able to own firearms. As for cutting back on funding to law enforcement, I doubt it as this government has funded the RCMP, the CBSA, and CSIS, greatly. That includes arming members of the CBSA.

Being tough on crime won't necessarily reduce crime, but it will put career criminals in jail for much longer periods of time. Quite frankly we should be glad that the onus is on the criminal to rehabilitate themselves and not instead blame societal ills or bad parenting.

[TomS]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair. Aka "tough justice"model. Asking whether it achieves the oals (that is, reducing crime, as opposed to having population live in constant fear, of criminal or an angry neighbour) is irrelevant because much (all?) what socially conservative Tories do, is based on opinion and belief.

When you are going to debate a certain policy, in this case guncontrol, it would be helpful to actually debate a certain policy. No matter how anti-gun ownership you are, you and everybody knows that there isn't anybody or any party that " want to give everybody a big gun,". If you can't find fault in the actual policy it leaves me wondering if the fault exists.

[wulf42]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair.

And that is exactly what should happen..........like i said before responible gun owners should be armed, i can promise a reduction in crime !! would you break into a house or swarm people where you know most of the community is armed?? probably not!

[scribblet]

I'm willing to bet those guns wouldnot have been registered anyway.

Of course they wouldn't have been registered do we really think that all those gunslingers in Toronto are going to stop before they shoot and say ' oh gee, I didn't register this, can't use it'

[scribblet]

Tories want to give everybody a big gun, cut gun contrlol (and maybe, police service) to the minimum, and fry the offenders in the chair.

Please show me where conservative has said such a thing.l but don't let facts get in your way.

[Murray B.]

We don't have Assault Rifles in Canada expect for the use of government agencies.

Are you serious? Every gangster has had a machine gun even after they were banned in 1930 or whenever it was. Today the criminals even have grenades and rocket launchers. So who are the "we" that do not have Assault rifles? If you mean law abiding citizens then what is the problem if they do have an assault rifle?

Given the common and mistaken defintion of an assault rifle they are generally shooting a mid range cartridge. Most use the old Remington .223 varmint cartridge. A standard rifle might use the .308 which is more than twice as powerful. The whole "assault style" issue is complete nonsense. Should someone be able to own a heavy machine gun if it had the right style? Let us say art deco would be legal but goth would be banned. Maybe an M-16 could be made legal by changing the style by adding mouse ears or a bunny tail.

What we really need to do is ban prohibitionism!