wulf42 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 It is a good rifle in that its tough and cheap, thats about it. If you watch high speed footage of an AK firing you'll be amazed by the barrel flex, its not a very accurate rifle.In this day its becoming obsolete pretty fast, I'll look some stuff up for you. The new weapons are amazing, how about a .45 cal sub machine gun with almost no barrel drift on full auto. Or a full auto shotgun with almost no kick or climb, saw that one on Future Weapons, it was absolutely devastating. Or the P-90, a nice little sub machine gun accurate to about 300 yards, thats simply unheard of in sub machine guns. Simply put the Russians bring nothing new to the table and are far outclassed by modern western weapons. Yes i have seen some footage of the barrel flexing...and the range isn t very accurate over a hundred yards but i think the Russians updated their forces with a newer verion called the AK-74 which i think is a lot more accurate...the main thing with these rifles is they are relatively easily maintained in the field...i watched a show on the history channel and it showed Afghan soldiers simply running a thin rope soaked in oil through the barrel and they were good to go!.....The Israeli's have developed a rifle that can shoot around corners...pretty cool stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 B2 @ 1.2 Bill ?There's only 20 of them reported in service (one crashed)... Can you imagine how painful would it be to lose one of those? Well, things break, and things crash. A 20 thousand dollar vehicle or one that costs a billion. Mind you there are things that can minimize the losses. AngusThermopyle Simply put the Russians bring nothing new to the table and are far outclassed by modern western weapons. Old sure, but reliable and will work in many environments that guns like the M-16 just do not perform well. In Iraq, I recall reports at the start of the 2003 invasion there was complaints from the US soldiers that a great number of guns would jam up often enough. If your gun always shoots in this environment compared to a new gun that jams up now and then, who comes out on top? The AK might not be accurate, but it does not break as much. This is why many rebel groups and militaries use the AK. I will also guess that the AK has been proloferated more than any other weapon out there. wulf42 The Israeli's have developed a rifle that can shoot around corners...pretty cool stuff! There was a gun developed by Nazi Germany that shot around corners. But the Israeli's always improve on any tech they are given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 The only good AK-47 is the one that fires the 5.56mm NATO rounds (less flex...which Angus mentions). The other advantage is, of course, that bullets for it are common on the battlefield. A fun weapon to fire, as well. Little kick or climb. ------------------------------------------- Missed it by that much... ---Maxwell Smart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yes i have seen some footage of the barrel flexing...and the range isn t very accurate over a hundred yards but i think the Russians updatedtheir forces with a newer verion called the AK-74 which i think is a lot more accurate...the main thing with these rifles is they are relatively easily maintained in the field...i watched a show on the history channel and it showed Afghan soldiers simply running a thin rope soaked in oil through the barrel and they were good to go!.....The Israeli's have developed a rifle that can shoot around corners...pretty cool stuff! Great point It actually has a worthy successor now - the AN-94 Abakan. Most remarcable thing about this rifle is that the second shot is fired before the recoil happens and lands virtually in the exact same spot. There's also a lot less recoil overall, and the precision is about 2x of the AKM. The Abakan is in use exclusively by elite and special Russian forces at the moment, but should find its way into the regular army eventually. Check out detailed description here: http://club.guns.ru/eng/abakan.html You can see the AEK 971 (another great semi-automatic rifle, almost no recoil at all - only prototypes exist) and AN-94 Abakan in action: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 It is a good rifle in that its tough and cheap, thats about it. If you watch high speed footage of an AK firing you'll be amazed by the barrel flex, its not a very accurate rifle.In this day its becoming obsolete pretty fast, I'll look some stuff up for you. The new weapons are amazing, how about a .45 cal sub machine gun with almost no barrel drift on full auto. Or a full auto shotgun with almost no kick or climb, saw that one on Future Weapons, it was absolutely devastating. Or the P-90, a nice little sub machine gun accurate to about 300 yards, thats simply unheard of in sub machine guns. Simply put the Russians bring nothing new to the table and are far outclassed by modern western weapons. Angus, you sound like a military hardware guy (which I am not). I'm sure there's tons of stuff Russia came up with that you may not have heard about. If you're interested and have some free time - browse the folloing websites: http://www.warfare.ru http://club.guns.ru Both are in English. You may find them quite entertaining. As I said before - military R&D was never left without funding in USSR and Russa, even during Eltsin's debauch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) Angus, you sound like a military hardware guy (which I am not). Actually PC I spent twenty years in the CAF before I retired in 01 and have always been interested in weaponry. Janes is an invaluable resource, expensive though. While I was still a member of the forces I used to get to use it for free. Another one that is good is the net, just about everything not classified as top secret is availlable on the net. A great one if you want to see whats in the pipeline and for sale is youtube, future weapons. The show is essentially an advertising forum. It shows what is currently availlable for purchase. I suggest you watch the Archer artillery peice in action. The gun is absolutely amazing. Edited to change Arrow to Archer, sometimes we all make pretty basic mistakes. Sorry. Edited August 30, 2008 by AngusThermopyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Actually PC I spent twenty years in the CAF before I retired in 01 and have always been interested in weaponry.Janes is an invaluable resource, expensive though. While I was still a member of the forces I used to get to use it for free. Another one that is good is the net, just about everything not classified as top secret is availlable on the net. A great one if you want to see whats in the pipeline and for sale is youtube, future weapons. The show is essentially an advertising forum. It shows what is currently availlable for purchase. I suggest you watch the Arrow artillery peice in action. The gun is absolutely amazing. I'd say the cluster bomb that can destroy an entire tank column with little to no collateral damage is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I'd say the cluster bomb that can destroy an entire tank column with little to no collateral damage is amazing. Have you seen what the Archer can do? Its a 155 mm gun with a twenty mile range that is extremely mobile. It can set up in a matter of a few minutes with a two man crew who never have to leave the comfort and safety of their climate controlled crew compartment. The crew compartement is fully armoured with a remote controled MMG for close in defence. No one has to be outside in order to set the gun up, load it or fire it, the whole thing is controlled and operated by the two guys in the crew compartment. It can perform simultaneous strikes, multiple shells hitting at the same time, one of the most difficult things to do with artillery. The way it works depends on the guns superb reload time. As the forst shot is fired the gun tragectory is adjusted while the next shell is being loaded. The end result is that one Archer can fire multiple shells that will land simultaneously, then within a minute or two it can be mobile heading for a new location. Such is the state of western military technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Seen these? 1 million rounds per minute(?) Aye! Carumba! Multi tube mortar. Good for merc companies? Arm your jeep with those? Here...for fun...why one doesn't shoot at hardened steel. -------------------------- Here's Johnny...! ---Jack Nicholson: The Shining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Okay, I figure most people wont search for the Archer system so here are the links. Archer I This is the second part of the video. Archer Part II It really is an amazing gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Okay, I figure most people wont search for the Archer system so here are the links. Archer I This is the second part of the video. Archer Part II It really is an amazing gun. Wow!....I like the part how they can fire the gun and be packed up and gone before the shells hit their target...amazing weapon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Wow!....I like the part how they can fire the gun and be packed up and gone before the shells hit their target...amazing weapon!! Hope you two playful warrior types are capable of waging peace also - to wage war uncontrolably is not something to be proud of nor is it manly - you have to have some class...if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Hope you two playful warrior types are capable of waging peace also - to wage war uncontrolably is not something to be proud of nor is it manly - you have to have some class...if you know what I mean. I think maybe you have the wrong idea......nobody in their right might wants war nor was that mentioned in this discussion we were simply having a discussion about technical aspects of weapons in the modern age...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Wow!....I like the part how they can fire the gun and be packed up and gone before the shells hit their target...amazing weapon!! Yes, thats very cool. The feature I like is the simultaneous strike capability. One Archer can fire 5 shells and they all hit the same target area within one second. The two man crew and climate controlled features are also really neat. What the two videos don't show is the self defence feature. The fully armoured crew compartment also has a 7.62 mm remote controlled co-ax machine gun for close in defence. All in all a revolutionary system that simply outclasses any other large artillery piece produced anywhere. It certainly puts the latest light weight offerings on the market to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yes, thats very cool. The feature I like is the simultaneous strike capability. One Archer can fire 5 shells and they all hit the same target area within one second.The two man crew and climate controlled features are also really neat. What the two videos don't show is the self defence feature. The fully armoured crew compartment also has a 7.62 mm remote controlled co-ax machine gun for close in defence. All in all a revolutionary system that simply outclasses any other large artillery piece produced anywhere. It certainly puts the latest light weight offerings on the market to shame. Do they have this weapon in production yet or just trial testing? This would be a huge Asset to NATO forces!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Okay, I figure most people wont search for the Archer system so here are the links. Archer I This is the second part of the video. Archer Part II It really is an amazing gun. Wow... Very impressive... Fit to Siberian landscapes... Poor car! Was it Japanese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Don't forget the golden oldies - Tsar Bomba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfoQsZa8F1c And the new conventional hit - Father Of All Bombs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhAydMLv6AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Do they have this weapon in production yet or just trial testing? This would be a huge Asset to NATO forces!! I'm not sure if they do yet. I think it said that they expect this to become the standard artillery piece for NATO forces by 2012. The clip does state that only two have been built for trials purposes so I'd say they don't have it in production yet, its coming though. This one is very impressive, flexible, light and packs a ton of punch behind it, the XM-307 full auto grenade launcher. Not only is it a 25 mm grenade launcher that fires full auto smart grenades but it also has a really neat trick it can do, it's sort of a multiple personalty weapon. Watch the video and you'll see what I mean. XM-307 This one is the Kriss .45 cal sub machine gun. Huge knock down power with a high degree of control and accuracy. As the guy on the show says, compared to a standard 9 mil smg the Kriss is like the difference between throwing a baseball or a medecine ball at someone. There have been .45 Cal SMG's before, just nothing like this. Kriss .45 Cal SMG Anyway, these are a few of the reasons I believe that even though Russia can pose a serious threat, the Western Nations and their alliances pose a far greater threat to Russia. Edited August 31, 2008 by AngusThermopyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Have you seen what the Archer can do? Its a 155 mm gun with a twenty mile range that is extremely mobile. It can set up in a matter of a few minutes with a two man crew who never have to leave the comfort and safety of their climate controlled crew compartment. The crew compartement is fully armoured with a remote controled MMG for close in defence. No one has to be outside in order to set the gun up, load it or fire it, the whole thing is controlled and operated by the two guys in the crew compartment.It can perform simultaneous strikes, multiple shells hitting at the same time, one of the most difficult things to do with artillery. The way it works depends on the guns superb reload time. As the forst shot is fired the gun tragectory is adjusted while the next shell is being loaded. The end result is that one Archer can fire multiple shells that will land simultaneously, then within a minute or two it can be mobile heading for a new location. Such is the state of western military technology. There has been a german variant on Future weapons as well. I still think the cluster bomb is cooler, on bomb from a fighter was dropped in Iraq destroying the enemy armoured column with spec ops in the visinity. Although the bomb is a million bucks a pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Anyway, these are a few of the reasons I believe that even though Russia can pose a serious threat, the Western Nations and their alliances pose a far greater threat to Russia. Exactly! Russia lacks the infrastructure and the flexibility to keep up in any technological race. You think they would have learned that when the USSR fell apart. No amount of petro wealth will make up for that. The most they could achieve would be to become like a member of OPEC, only with some nukes and some space ability. They're just lucky that their nukes will never be obsolete, just old, funny looking and clunky! Meanwhile, they seem to be blissfully uncaring about looking like some kind of international slavic brute. It's as if they WANT folks to consider them a threat! If that is so then they are foolish to complain that nations install defences against them. None of those former eastern European countries would be so hell bent on joining NATO if they felt the Russians had become nice guys! Russia's own actions make aligning with Uncle Sam and installing anti-missile defences simple prudence! Russia is trying to intimidate them against ever fighting back, instead of trying to establish positive relationships. As far as I'm concerned, Russia deserves whatever it gets back from such a policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Exactly! Russia lacks the infrastructure and the flexibility to keep up in any technological race. You think they would have learned that when the USSR fell apart. No amount of petro wealth will make up for that. The most they could achieve would be to become like a member of OPEC, only with some nukes and some space ability. They're just lucky that their nukes will never be obsolete, just old, funny looking and clunky!Meanwhile, they seem to be blissfully uncaring about looking like some kind of international slavic brute. It's as if they WANT folks to consider them a threat! If that is so then they are foolish to complain that nations install defences against them. None of those former eastern European countries would be so hell bent on joining NATO if they felt the Russians had become nice guys! Russia's own actions make aligning with Uncle Sam and installing anti-missile defences simple prudence! Russia is trying to intimidate them against ever fighting back, instead of trying to establish positive relationships. As far as I'm concerned, Russia deserves whatever it gets back from such a policy. Russia will always be a threat....they see the west as the enemy and a threat to their way of life....Nobody intends to attack Russia..surely the Russians must know that Nato has zero interest in attacking them unless self defence ....the Russsians as well as Nato countries face a similiar threat together and that is Islamic Radicals! its to bad they don t put their energies in destroying terrorists and less time in mistrusting each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Exactly! Russia lacks the infrastructure and the flexibility to keep up in any technological race. You think they would have learned that when the USSR fell apart. No amount of petro wealth will make up for that. The most they could achieve would be to become like a member of OPEC, only with some nukes and some space ability. They're just lucky that their nukes will never be obsolete, just old, funny looking and clunky! I understand the dream of American supremacy was true for a couple of decades but all good things come to an end. Just because NATO weapons are more expensive doesn't mean they're always better. Meanwhile, they seem to be blissfully uncaring about looking like some kind of international slavic brute. It's as if they WANT folks to consider them a threat! US has been the brute for 20 years, and behaves like they're still the only power and can dictate anything to anybody. Now comes the rude awakening... If that is so then they are foolish to complain that nations install defences against them. None of those former eastern European countries would be so hell bent on joining NATO if they felt the Russians had become nice guys! Russia's own actions make aligning with Uncle Sam and installing anti-missile defences simple prudence!Russia is trying to intimidate them against ever fighting back, instead of trying to establish positive relationships. As far as I'm concerned, Russia deserves whatever it gets back from such a policy. US is trying to intimidate the world. Either you're with US, or against US - that's why NATO keeps growing. But times are changing, and we should soon see more countries opposing the "Democratization" and "Freedomization" by force... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliticalCitizen Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Russia will always be a threat....they see the west as the enemy and a threat to their way of life....Nobody intends to attack Russia..surely the Russians must know that Nato has zero interest in attacking them unless self defence ....the Russsians as well as Nato countries face a similiar threat together and that is Islamic Radicals! its to bad they don t put their energies in destroying terrorists and less time in mistrusting each other! Russia has quite a bit of SUCCESSFUL experience with Muslim countires - look at all the ...STANs (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) that were part of Soviet Union. The only time force had to be applied was Chechnya, and even there it wouldn't have happened if USSR's work in Afghanistan wouldn't have been undermined and the Chechen rebels wouldn't have been armed by US. USA, on the other hand, has failed and will fail simply because of the fact that "Democracy" doesn't work with Islam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Russia has quite a bit of SUCCESSFUL experience with Muslim countires - look at all the ...STANs (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) that were part of Soviet Union. The only time force had to be applied was Chechnya, and even there it wouldn't have happened if USSR's work in Afghanistan wouldn't have been undermined and the Chechen rebels wouldn't have been armed by US. USA, on the other hand, has failed and will fail simply because of the fact that "Democracy" doesn't work with Islam... Good Point! Syria and Iran have recently been pretty cozy with Russia.....i agree that the USA will never have much success in Iraq or Afghanistan....those countries have known war for so long they no nothing else but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Russia has quite a bit of SUCCESSFUL experience with Muslim countires - look at all the ...STANs (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) that were part of Soviet Union. Yea, Russia was a big hit in Afghanistan compared to the Americans/NATO...yessir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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