Topaz Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 GM closing the chev-gmc truck plant and even though the GM is saying 1000 its more like 2600 families are going to be without a job! GM is not honouring the contract and they may have a fight on their hands. GM and other maufacturers that pull out of NA to go to Mexico, may get cheaper labour but they also get cheap quality and they may not be able to sell their autos back here.The timing on high gas prices and the downsizing of NA auto to smaller makes me question if they had this planned along. I`m not a small car person but for city people I can see it most aren`t that good in a crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margrace Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 And yet Topaz there are people on here who claim our economy will not be hurt and our standard of living will not drop. I wonder who they work for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 And yet Topaz there are people on here who claim our economy will not be hurt and our standard of living will not drop. I wonder who they work for. Likely Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 GM and other maufacturers that pull out of NA to go to Mexico, may get cheaper labour but they also get cheap quality By reducing labour costs they have an increased margin to play with to improve quality and/or value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Likely Toyota. People are already working for these companies. Toyota is Staying in Ontario only for the access to the North American Market and the current labour skills and support network of suppliers with a skilled labour force. GM is moving most operations to China to take advantage of the Chinese Currency (Which is fixed) and the skilled labour market there, along with the growing skilled Labour force within the suppliers. Your answer is quaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 GM closing the chev-gmc truck plant and even though the GM is saying 1000 its more like 2600 families are going to be without a job! GM is not honouring the contract and they may have a fight on their hands. GM and other maufacturers that pull out of NA to go to Mexico, may get cheaper labour but they also get cheap quality and they may not be able to sell their autos back here.The timing on high gas prices and the downsizing of NA auto to smaller makes me question if they had this planned along. I`m not a small car person but for city people I can see it most aren`t that good in a crash. They are closing the SUV and small truck lines. Contrary to the not too bright crowd, those products will not be moved to mexican plants.... The timing on high gas prices and the downsizing of NA auto to smaller makes me question if they had this planned along. I`m not a small car person but for city people I can see it most aren`t that good in a crash. If they had planned this, they would have closed those lines 2 years ago and re-toole for hybrids....instead they are losing their shirts and quite frankly, I would not be surprised if 1witin 10 years the big 3 will be down to the middle sized one because precislely they didn't plan well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 By reducing labour costs they have an increased margin to play with to improve quality and/or value. By using government money, they have been able to use this extra cash to relocate to offshore locations which are not affected by the rising dollar because their currency is tied to the US dollar. Also, product dumping and government "incentives" are superior. Quality is driven by consumer demand, competition and the (oh I hate to say this) insurance companies. (I will give them one star for this) Your opinion is not incorrect but marginal. The fact is moving will increase profits, and locate themselves in a growing market in a growing country. It has little to do with the "improved quality/value" aspect. This is as much to do with consumer marketing as many parts are received from the same suppliers be them offshore or in North America. The difference at many operations is that you can get finished goods shipped from offshore, cheaper then you can buy the raw materials. THis is the value added. However, with regards to quality, it was not unusual to toss out entire orders of dies etc, because they were garbage, inproperly heat treated (if heat treated at all) poor processing procedures, and simple trickery. But companies are willing to reorder because the batches, junk and all can still be had at less cost per item. Often this overlooks shutting down entire production runs, which offshore companies are rarely held liable, unlike in North America where fines of 6 and 7 digits are often the norm for poor workmanship or missing a JIT run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 They are closing the SUV and small truck lines. Contrary to the not too bright crowd, those products will not be moved to mexican plants....If they had planned this, they would have closed those lines 2 years ago and re-toole for hybrids....instead they are losing their shirts and quite frankly, I would not be surprised if 1witin 10 years the big 3 will be down to the middle sized one because precislely they didn't plan well enough. A manufacturing plant can retool for anything in any location. The timing of the retooling is based upon market demand, production planning often done 5 years or more in advance. The conditions of what product will be produce and where will be dependant upon market access, trade deals, and consumer demand. It is not like changing markets haven't happened before. THe Japanese also following market demand created some of the largest trucks on the dealer lots. Japanese trucks used to be those little things, right up to about 12 or 13 years ago. Hybrid cars are not selling that well, but that is a good market to be ready to address, as their is a general movement amongst the consumer to entertain such a purchase. But none of this is neither here nor there with regards to a Auto Manufacturers Plant Locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 If something isn't selling, you stop making it. It doesn't matter where they are built if people aren't buying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Topaz - go out and buy a couple of trucks - help support your economy. Share holders and profit rule. Simple economics. I would expect this company to maintain a profit or shut down. Seems they are doing what they deem best. Would you run at a loss until you declare yourself financially insolvent? Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hybrid cars are not selling that well, but that is a good market to be ready to address, as their is a general movement amongst the consumer to entertain such a purchase. Not sure what you mean by well. If you mean they are a small segment they okay.... Hybrids are a small market segment that is growing fast...currently dealers have waiting lists and production is barely keeping up with demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 If something isn't selling, you stop making it. It doesn't matter where they are built if people aren't buying them. Exactly, and you start making something that sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 One of the four truck plants they are closing is in Mexico. They are also considering dumping Hummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Not sure what you mean by well. If you mean they are a small segment they okay.... Yes Hybrids are a small market segment that is growing fast...currently dealers have waiting lists and production is barely keeping up with demand. And yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I live in Oshawa, my father worked at the Fabrication Plant there as an Electrical Eng. Everything I had growing up I owe to GMoC and my dad, same as most of the people I grew up with. Having said that, this is a good thing long term. That plant won't be shut for long, it will be retooled and something with more market desirability will replace it. Remember two things... They just built a HUGE paint shop there, AND that truck plant was rated #1 in NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 THIS looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisSelf Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 A really sad outcome. And even more sad is Buzz Hargrove on the radio saying how pissed off his union members were. Toyota continues to expand production in Ontario while GM and Ford workers are being laid off. What's wrong with this picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 And yet Topaz there are people on here who claim our economy will not be hurt and our standard of living will not drop. I wonder who they work for. I guess they are just repeating what the Cons want everyone to believe. You know don't say the "R" word and it won't happen, only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 A really sad outcome. And even more sad is Buzz Hargrove on the radio saying how pissed off his union members were. Toyota continues to expand production in Ontario while GM and Ford workers are being laid off. What's wrong with this picture? I can see were Toyota will surpass the GM, Ford or Chysler because people will just may turn against them and as I said, you want to drive a car made in Mexico or a canadian made Toyota? The new hybrid car GM is coming out with is going to Michigan and I think that one was suppose stay in Canada but not 100% sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBicycle Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 THIS looks interesting. A really sad outcome. And even more sad is Buzz Hargrove on the radio saying how pissed off his union members were. Toyota continues to expand production in Ontario while GM and Ford workers are being laid off. What's wrong with this picture? Nothing! Unions were responsible for driving most of the steel industry jobs out of the country; they'll eventually do the same to auto industry. The average pay for an assembly line employee is more than double the average industrial wage in the United States, and almost double the average here in Canada. Today's economy is centered on highly educated knowledge workers; unions exist to tax the worker and are nothing more than one more hand extended on pay day. Do UAW executives collect strike pay while their striking members are freezing on the picket line? I doubt it. Buzz Hargrove will retire on a pension equal to that of a senior GM executive, not bad for a former line worker who probably didn't finish high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Nothing!Unions were responsible for driving most of the steel industry jobs out of the country; they'll eventually do the same to auto industry. The average pay for an assembly line employee is more than double the average industrial wage in the United States, and almost double the average here in Canada. Today's economy is centered on highly educated knowledge workers; unions exist to tax the worker and are nothing more than one more hand extended on pay day. Do UAW executives collect strike pay while their striking members are freezing on the picket line? I doubt it. Buzz Hargrove will retire on a pension equal to that of a senior GM executive, not bad for a former line worker who probably didn't finish high school. Before you go knocking the unions where do you think some of the cars are going to be made, the US were there are unions! Todays ecomony is centered on corporations making big bucks and driving away the middle-class ! The new rate for an assembly line workers is now half $12-14 hrly. Can a man support a family on that??NO! This country may see people losing their homes because of the loss of their jobs and it will start a chain reaction and Harper doesn't care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Before you go knocking the unions where do you think some of the cars are going to be made, the US were there are unions! Over looking the structure of this statement, which confuses..... You think Unions forced the Big Three American automakers to move to Canada? Are you ....nuts? Here: Which came first, the Canadian Autoworker or the plant? Automotive plants are in Canada courtesy of the Auto Pact and Free Trade....I don't recall unions at the negotiating table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The new rate for an assembly line workers is now half $12-14 hrly. Can a man support a family on that??NO! This country may see people losing their homes because of the loss of their jobs and it will start a chain reaction and Harper doesn't care! 10 to 1 you can't find a credible source to back up that error.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarBicycle Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 It's more like $55 per hour; I don't have a problem with a journeyman tradesman earning that wage, but it's far too much for a line worker. A journeyman tradesman is either a graduate of a community college or has successfully completed an apprenticeship. Line workers have limited skills and can easily be replaced by another unskilled worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 A really sad outcome. And even more sad is Buzz Hargrove on the radio saying how pissed off his union members were. Toyota continues to expand production in Ontario while GM and Ford workers are being laid off. What's wrong with this picture? No domestic automotive manufacturing base. Must go back to losing the Avro Arrow? India can do it..why can't Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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