Gas prices

[Topaz]

I just wonder how long is it going to take the people of this province to rebellion against the high gas prices? I heard that gas prices last week in Hawaii were 4.55 a gal which is 1.22 L here. Word has it we'll be paying 1.50 by the end of the summer.

[Qwerty]

The government should be looking after us and not allowing the sale of our oil overseas and down south only to buy more from them and ship it back...silly.

We produce more then enough crude for our own purposes.

[oreodontist]

Hopefully gas prices will stabalize well above 1.25 or so a liter. Then there will be an actual impact on what vehicle most Canadians drive off the new car lot....and influence actual driving habits.

Higher gas prices is a double win...good for the Environment and good for Canadian based mutual funds.

[Leafless]

The government should be looking after us and not allowing the sale of our oil overseas and down south only to buy more from them and ship it back...silly.

We produce more then enough crude for our own purposes.

Yes, crude that requires more levels of refining.

Canadian oil sands crude after refining would cost more per litre than crude the easie to refine, less thick, imported crude that comes up out of the ground.

Canadian crude is simply to crude to be competitive.

Besides, we don't have the refining resources to accomplish this for all of Canada.

[oreodontist]

Yes, crude that requires more levels of refining.

Canadian oil sands crude after refining would cost more per litre than crude the easie to refine, less thick, imported crude that comes up out of the ground.

Canadian crude is simply to crude to be competitive.

Besides, we don't have the refining resources to accomplish this for all of Canada.

I think Owerty advocating paying 2.50 plus for a liter but it's 'Canadian' and somehow it's better. Unfortunately that doesn't help the consumer, destroys businesses and would put the Canadian dollar down the toilet as our export/import ratio would go into the negative ballistic zone.

Edited April 18, 2008 by oreodontist

[Shakeyhands]

I paid 1.20l this morning in the GTA, as I filled my motorcycle... no more driving the Jeep on nice days.

We simply do not have the transit infrastructure to support 2.50/l (let alone 1.20l!) but on the other hand a lot of peoples salaries and hourly wages have not kept with the increased cost of living..

[Borg]

Hopefully gas prices will stabalize well above 1.25 or so a liter. Then there will be an actual impact on what vehicle most Canadians drive off the new car lot....and influence actual driving habits.

Higher gas prices is a double win...good for the Environment and good for Canadian based mutual funds.

I hope you have the ability to afford triple pricing on food, quadruple pricing on heating oil, and even more for general transportation. Building materials made, harvested or dug from the ground in Canada will drive your housing costs up as well.

Your comments show how little you truly know about how this country survives.

Then again you likely live in a chicken coop for people on the 12'th floor and have the ability to walk to work.

Try mass transit 100 miles from even a small community - does not exist. Try delivering any natural good or food to YOUR market in an electric car.

This country survives by eating, travelling and living in shelter brought in from far away.

Your Kiwi fruit may also go to 10 bucks a fruit.

Next you will increase my taxes so you can enjoy your own life style.

As for environment - until you get the Chinese and Indians to control their polluting ways - tiny little Canada will be irrepairably hurt if your hopes and dreams are realized.

I bet your job depends upon oil - even in a small way.

Your ignorance must make for a truly blissfull life. What colour is your sky?

Borg

[madmax]

I paid 1.20l this morning in the GTA, as I filled my motorcycle... no more driving the Jeep on nice days.

We simply do not have the transit infrastructure to support 2.50/l (let alone 1.20l!) but on the other hand a lot of peoples salaries and hourly wages have not kept with the increased cost of living..

Wages are on a downward trend. I am happy to ride my Motorcycle.

[oreodontist]

I paid 1.20l this morning in the GTA, as I filled my motorcycle... no more driving the Jeep on nice days.

We simply do not have the transit infrastructure to support 2.50/l (let alone 1.20l!) but on the other hand a lot of peoples salaries and hourly wages have not kept with the increased cost of living..

And we'll never have the infrastructure 'if' driving a private vehicle for most Canadians is more convenient and affordable. Many claim to 'need' a larger vehicle or 'need' the vehicle because of..'whatever' reason. When gas prices are high enough they will impact other life decisions...where we live, where we work, where the kids go to the babysitter, etc. Yes, most Canadians do indeed 'need' their vehicle because of the circumstances the live in. If it costs $500/month for fuel to get to work from a 2500 sq ft Mcmansion in the burbs then some folks will opt for the condo in the city. If one job pays ten thousand less than another 20 miles away, then it may be worth taking the job within walking distance after vehicles cost and gas is considered.

[madmax]

I hope you have the ability to afford triple pricing on food, quadruple pricing on heating oil, and even more for general transportation. Building materials made, harvested or dug from the ground in Canada will drive your housing costs up as well.

Your comments show how little you truly know about how this country survives.

Then again you likely live in a chicken coop for people on the 12'th floor and have the ability to walk to work.

Try mass transit 100 miles from even a small community - does not exist. Try delivering any natural good or food to YOUR market in an electric car.

This country survives by eating, travelling and living in shelter brought in from far away.

Your Kiwi fruit may also go to 10 bucks a fruit.

Next you will increase my taxes so you can enjoy your own life style.

As for environment - until you get the Chinese and Indians to control their polluting ways - tiny little Canada will be irrepairably hurt if your hopes and dreams are realized.

I bet your job depends upon oil - even in a small way.

Your ignorance must make for a truly blissfull life. What colour is your sky?

Borg

Ditto! I have copied the entire post, because people who wish to do good for the environment say some very rudimentary comments but should take the time to read the concerns above.

There is a debate that can be had about your statements, which I agree with. The advocates of these environmental concerns, need to put forward rational policies.

CHINA and INDIA are great examples.

[madmax]

If one job pays ten thousand less than another 20 miles away, then it may be worth taking the job within walking distance after vehicles cost and gas is considered.

Really?

[eyeball]

This country survives by eating, travelling and living in shelter brought in from far away.

Borg

This is the best argument I can think of for nationalizing our hydro-carbon supplies and reserving them for domestic use.

Effectively speaking, peak-oil has arrived, whether its real or artificial is moot. If we thought it was every country for itself before its especially true now. We should also build a bunch of really big nuclear bombs. As crazy as it seems MAD is probably the best way to deter anyone from trying to attack us and steal our resources.

Metaphors abound...the ship is going down and there are not enough life-boats...the water-hole is getting smaller so we need to get meaner...only the fit will survive...

[Shakeyhands]

Really?

Not far off, per year the jeep is costing me between $10000 and $15000ish

on a lease you're lookig at approx $13,200....

by way of edit, I should add that it is 50KM 1 way to work, so >100km's per day 5 days a week.....

Edited April 18, 2008 by Shakeyhands

[oreodontist]

Not far off, per year the jeep is costing me between $10000 and $15000ish

on a lease you're lookig at approx $13,200....

by way of edit, I should add that it is 50KM 1 way to work, so >100km's per day 5 days a week.....

....and, those vehicleexpenses are after tax dollars out of the pocket. 10,000 a year more in salary might mean a take home of only 7,000 or so (depending on your provincial tax rate).

[Drea]

And we'll never have the infrastructure 'if' driving a private vehicle for most Canadians is more convenient and affordable. Many claim to 'need' a larger vehicle or 'need' the vehicle because of..'whatever' reason. When gas prices are high enough they will impact other life decisions...where we live, where we work, where the kids go to the babysitter, etc. Yes, most Canadians do indeed 'need' their vehicle because of the circumstances the live in. If it costs $500/month for fuel to get to work from a 2500 sq ft Mcmansion in the burbs then some folks will opt for the condo in the city. If one job pays ten thousand less than another 20 miles away, then it may be worth taking the job within walking distance after vehicles cost and gas is considered.

As a "salesperson" I HAVE to drive. I drive an 03 Grand Am. Test drove an Austin Mini, hated it and it doesn't get much better mileage than my current V6.

I don't want to live in a chicken coop either (good one Borg!

... and not only that but those in the chicken coops won't even let me smoke, so f*ck 'em! I will drive the biggest badass car I can find -- my coworker just bought a Charger and she loves it.

What gives anyway? Back in the 1970's a small car would get 50-60 miles per gallon (Chevette Scooter, Honda Civic,Toyota Tercel for examples) but now they tell us that 30mpg is grrreat.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Drea

[Wilber]

Deleated

Edited April 18, 2008 by Wilber

[oreodontist]

As a "salesperson" I HAVE to drive. I drive an 03 Grand Am. Test drove an Austin Mini, hated it and it doesn't get much better mileage than my current V6.

I don't want to live in a chicken coop either (good one Borg!

... and not only that but those in the chicken coops won't even let me smoke, so f*ck 'em! I will drive the biggest badass car I can find -- my coworker just bought a Charger and she loves it.

What gives anyway? Back in the 1970's a small car would get 50-60 miles per gallon (Chevette Scooter, Honda Civic,Toyota Tercel for examples) but now they tell us that 30mpg is grrreat.

Your point? Then pay the high price for the gas. No skin off the nose of oil producing regions. Albertans aren't going to turn your money away. The more SUVs and 'badass' cars the better for us. More demand...higher price.

[Drea]

Your point? Then pay the high price for the gas. No skin off the nose of oil producing regions. Albertans aren't going to turn your money away. The more SUVs and 'badass' cars the better for us. More demand...higher price.

It's nice to know I am doing something for my fellow Canadians. Thanks for the "kudo"!

What would you suggest that salespeople do? Any viable alternatives to offer? And no, riding a motorcycle, bicycle or scooter is not an option, it's pouring like a biatch out there!

Now, if they made an affordable electric car (under 15 grand) I would buy it. If there really was a problem with "carbon".... alternatives would be readily available. "Reducing carbon" is just a money grab pure and simple.

People who live in apartments should subsidize those of us who don't with higher taxes IMO. You want to live where you can breathe in your neighbours stink? Not me thanks very much

[Wilber]

This is the best argument I can think of for nationalizing our hydro-carbon supplies and reserving them for domestic use.

Effectively speaking, peak-oil has arrived, whether its real or artificial is moot. If we thought it was every country for itself before its especially true now. We should also build a bunch of really big nuclear bombs. As crazy as it seems MAD is probably the best way to deter anyone from trying to attack us and steal our resources.

Metaphors abound...the ship is going down and there are not enough life-boats...the water-hole is getting smaller so we need to get meaner...only the fit will survive...

Tried that already. It was called the NEP and was a flop. Thought you weren't pro military. Developing nucs is no big deal but a way to deliver them effectively is another matter unless you are just planning on blowing yourself up. We'd likely have to try and buy that equipment from the people you would want to use it on. Besides, there are several countries that could trump us at that game and the nice thing is, after they had wiped us out the oil would still be there for them.

What gives anyway? Back in the 1970's a small car would get 50-60 miles per gallon (Chevette Scooter, Honda Civic,Toyota Tercel for examples) but now they tell us that 30mpg is grrreat.

Urban legend. I had two of the original Mini Coopers and a lot of other small cars back then. The Coopers got great mileage for their day but not as good as my current VW diesel in spite of being a much smaller car with a much smaller engine. Everyone thought small cars got great mileage back then only because the average full sized car was so bad. If I really baby my 66 Chrysler I might get close to 15 MPG on premium.

I think the situation is changing already. Small cars are now the hottest segment of the market and fuel efficiency is the new mantra of manufacturers. More and more of them are announcing new hybrids and clean diesel technology.

It's going to be difficult. Outside of a few major cities we just don't have the population density to support public transport on a national basis like Europe and Asia.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Wilber

[Drea]

Urban legend. I had two of the original Mini Coopers and a lot of other small cars back then. The Coopers got great mileage for their day but not as good as my current VW diesel in spite of being a much smaller car with a much smaller engine. Everyone thought small cars got great mileage back then only because the average full sized car was so bad. If I really baby my 66 Chrysler I might get close to 15 MPG on premium.

I had a 1975 Honda Civic and could drive it back and forth to school everyday (25 miles each way) for two weeks, not to mention skipping out and driving around all day...used to cost $13 to fill it up, this was in 1981.

I think the situation is changing already. Small cars are now the hottest segment of the market and fuel efficiency is the new mantra of manufacturers. More and more of them are announcing new hybrids and clean diesel technology.

Ethanol is a bust -- we can't take food and use it for fuel...

There are electric vehicles but they are not affordable nor mass produced.

It's going to be difficult. Outside of a few major cities we just don't have the population density to support public transport on a national basis like Europe and Asia.

Exactly. I can't see how those living rurally or in small towns are supposed to afford these higher prices, not to mention the cost of shipping their groceries and the cost to heat a home in the dead of winter... We installed a wood burning stove and I expect that many more people will as well.

[oreodontist]

.

Urban legend. I had two of the original Mini Coopers and a lot of other small cars back then. The Coopers got great mileage for their day but not as good as my current VW diesel in spite of being a much smaller car with a much smaller engine. Everyone thought small cars got great mileage back then only because the average full sized car was so bad. If I really baby my 66 Chrysler I might get close to 15 MPG on premium.

True. I had a Toyota Corolla and then an 81 Civic. They got in the low 30's MPG. I drove both to Nova Scotia and sold them after a couple years' use for more than I paid. Advertised as 'Alberta cars'...otherwise not rust buckets. The Maritime cars back then would rust out before the moving parts gave up the ghost. While doing some Geology work for a few months in Nova Scotia in the late 70's, I bought a Datsun for $100 and referred to it as the Rustmobile. No passenger floor and the hood strapped on because the latch had rusted. Cars in Nova Scotia were suppose to have an annual safety inspection but I didn't know that when I bought it. The safety inspection fine was a lot less than getting anything fixed so I took the chance and never did get ticketed.

Edited April 19, 2008 by oreodontist

[August1991]

The government should be looking after us and not allowing the sale of our oil overseas and down south only to buy more from them and ship it back...silly.

We produce more then enough crude for our own purposes.

Qwerty, I notice that you are from Ontario. Why do you think that Albertans should be forced to sell you oil at a price lower than they can sell it to Americans? Do you think Ontario should make and sell cars to Albertans at a price lower than they can sell them elsewhere?

I think that it's more important to ask why anyone should sell anything for less than they have to? If you force a surgeon to work for $20,000, you may be surprised to learn that many surgeons decide to change professions. Worse however, if a surgeon can be had for $20,000 and a garbagemen for $30,000, don't be surprised if surgeons work as garbagemen - and society would be wasting talents.

Oil is an expensive resource in the world now. We would be foolish to squander it in Canada by having a lower made-in-Canada price - that would be like having surgeons pick up garbage.

This is the best argument I can think of for nationalizing our hydro-carbon supplies and reserving them for domestic use.

Effectively speaking, peak-oil has arrived, whether its real or artificial is moot. If we thought it was every country for itself before its especially true now. We should also build a bunch of really big nuclear bombs. As crazy as it seems MAD is probably the best way to deter anyone from trying to attack us and steal our resources.

Nationalize our hydro-carbon supplies?

Socialism and nationalization has been rejected everywhere else in the world and you want to bring it back. Heck, even Canada Post has almost been privatized.

As to peak oil, the price of oil in real, inflation-corrected terms is a little above what it was in 1980. As recently as 1998, it was $10/barrel. These things have a tendency to go up and down. You can be certain that at $110/barrel, there are many, many people around the world thinking of schemes and ideas either to use oil differently or to get oil differently. People respond to incentives but sometimes it takes time to notice.

Tried that already. It was called the NEP and was a flop.

Exactly. An utter, disastrous flop. Bothe economically and politically. Edited April 19, 2008 by August1991

[WarBicycle]

My DTS averages 11.5 liters per 100 kms combined highway city driving. I write off 80% of my vehicle expenses because I use my car for work. I twice tried a smaller car but neither lasted two years before they started falling apart and safety is an important issue when you drive as much as I do. I usually put 300K on my vehicles before I trade them in for a new car. They are not worth much due to the high mileage; however, they are very well maintained, so someone gets a good, inexpensive vehicle that should last another year or two.

I remember people bitching when gas hit 37 cents per gallon (8.13 cents per liter) around 1963. In those days a 1250 sq. ft., 3 bedroom brick bungalow sold for about $15,000 including the land. That same house updated and in good condition sells today for about $280,000. Men considered themselves lucky if they earned $3.00 per hour, women weren't so lucky they earned considerably less. A Cadillac cost $5,000 vs $65,000 today. Do the math. $1.17 per liter = $5.32 per gallon. Gas is 14.38 times more expensive than is was in 1963; Homes are 18.67 times more expensive; and, cars 13 times more expensive. Inflation is part of life, get used to it, it won't go away. BTW I'm a Realtor, the house values are accurate.

[Wilber]

Comfortable, good performing, more efficient cars are possible. A good example is the Mercedes E320 diesel. It's rated at 31 MPG city, 46 highway compared to 23 MPG city, 32 highway for the E300 gas and it's faster. Expect to see a lot more of this kind of thing in the future.

[Who's Doing What?]

I am paying $1.20/L here in the GTA. I don't really care. So it costs me $20 more for 100L of gas than it did a few months ago. Might cost an additional $1000 a year if I do alot of driving. Still not enough for me change my lifestyle all that much. Less take out Chinese and pizza but otherwise things are pretty much the same.

What worries me is the fallout from switching to ethanol. This is going to cripple us if we continue. We feed our Beef, Chicken and Pork corn/grain. So when the price of the food increases so will the product. If people are starving now, what is going to happen when grocery bills double or triple.

Add into that the price of delivery is skyrocketing due to fuel costs and we are headed for economic disaster.

Hybrids are definitly a saving grace but if the US govt. continues to mandate ethanol production, North America is screwed.