RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[Shakeyhands]

You're saying your wife has no ethics or values and would immediately betray any public trust in her in order to gossip?

Sure, and her friends, and your wife and you and anyone else. Loose lips sink ships... remember?

[Shakeyhands]

Wow this is so disgusting. What 3rd world style of politics have we become. I'm truly emberassed to be Canadian (again).

Are we in Canada or Pakistan?

MD, you are one of the truely funny characters on this site.... DON'T YOU EVER CHANGE BUDDY!!!!

[jdobbin]

Does CBC get a fax of every search warrant issued?

Faxes are easy to trace. Where did you hear a fax was sent?

Was Newsworld there when Guite and the Liberal fraud artists were picked up on warrants? Were CPC cameras right behind?

Come on, common sense here. Someone tipped off CBC at the very least.

Wouldn't be surprised if was the Tories themselves so they could used these talking points afterwards.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../WBwblogolitics

CTV National News: "Conservative Party insiders suspect there are Liberal moles within Elections Canada. The agency they say may have used the raids to obtain the [Conservative] Party's secret election plans."

They certainly leaked Hillier's resignation to try and get the raid off the front pages. Even Don Martin of the National Post admits that.

[jdobbin]

How can the CCP be so blatently dishonest? I know that they are no different than the other parties but give me a break, we as voters are not deaf or blind.

Elections Canada already nailed them on their convention fees when they said they didn't do anything wrong. It will be interesting to see what the warrant says when it is unsealed.

[jdobbin]

Why did you ignore when August added "Disingenuous phrase". Word began to spread? We're talking about a half dozen guys in suits entering an office building. How is word about that going to spread around the city within minutes so that already hired Liberal videographers show up to record it all? Word began to spread? From whom? The only ones who would have known were the Tories and Elections Canada.

And the Tories were furiously tapping away at their Blackberries when the raid took place. Not hard to figure out that sort of news would spread.

Liberal party headquarters are down the street. An easy sprint away. No camera person was hired especially for this event. I've never seen the claim made by anyone aside from the right wing. Nor were they or the media there ahead of Elections Canada. Another bogus claim.

The Tory talking point machine is making things up as they go.

If Harper really suspect that Elections Canada or the RCMP is corrupt and can't be trusted in the next election, they prime minister should request an investigation by local Ottawa police and call a public inquiry.

While they're at it, they might ask who leaked Hillier's resignation.

[jdobbin]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Tories leaked it? Because half a dozen guys in suits entering an office building doesn't make much noise around Ottawa. I find it hard to believe that Tory party people were going to be calling anyone to talk about a raid on their offices other than other Tory party people. You're suggesting one of those party people tipped the Liberals and media within minutes?

Whether by design or by accident, I seriously think the Tories did do it. It is a secret that wouldn't have stayed secret for very long. It is certainly more plausible than the unfounded claim that Liberals and the media were outside the door waiting for Elections Canada and the RCMP to arrive.

Clearly an error on his part. If he had followed long-time Liberal policy and only appointed loyal party people to head all government boards and agencies this wouldn't have happened. Instead he just appointed a long-time bureaucrat (most of whom have ties to the Liberals)

Yes, another Tory talking point. All civil service members are Liberals including the last two Elections officers.

Actually it is the media which is suggesting this is common practice and always has been, ie, Don Martin among others. And for someone who is as much a blind Liberal Party zealot as you are to complain about sleaze is laugh out loud hypocritical given yours is the party which meets in dark Italian restaurants, patting each other down for microphones as they pass stolen money across the table in brown envelopes.

Don Martin also suggested the Tories leaked Hillier's resignation as a means to put the story of the raid off the front page. I note he doesn't have a sources for that either.

The right wing is convinced there is a conspiracy against them in Elections Canada. It is obvious that they should ask the RCMP to raid Elections Canada offices to find the Liberal moles.

[mikedavid00]

You live in a free country. Why don't you leave?

Because other countries have these things called 'immigration policies' and do not let people into their countries unless they have a shortage of a specific worker. Even then I will most likely not be able to become a citizen. I'm gone after my job or work visa ends.

I simply cannot get into other countries..

(unless i wanted to go to Asia to teach english.. but that is a very temporary work permit).

It's funny how you guys think that every country runs itself like Canada. Canada is not a normal country. The best way to descibe it is one big 'farce'.

[jdobbin]

You are being uncharacteristically shrill these days. Internal party polling not going well?

You are certainly in character with your personal attacks.

Now, you have added September 11-like conspiracy theories to the talking points.

[jdobbin]

Has anyone else noticed that Jdobbin got new talking points from the party in his latest package?

Every single post of his refers to the "right wing". I know the Liberals are worried about the NDP making inroads on the Left. Maybe these new talking points are part of their response.

Does anyone notice that when Argus is on the defensive about his party that he personally attacks by naming posters?

[jdobbin]

delete

Edited April 17, 2008 by jdobbin

[mikedavid00]

The right wing is convinced there is a conspiracy against them in Elections Canada.

For them funelling money to local constituancies and then airing federal ads with fine print at the bottom to evade the election laws in a scamy way? And then $750,000 of 'our' (those who pay taxes) money has to pay for them?

That is open corruption on the part of the CPC and Harper and those involved should step down.

The RCMP leaks is just more Canada corruption.

Our system only works off 'nobility'. If you loose that, then the system becomes corrupt.

Don't you see, the corruptoin is all around this. From top to bottom. Same as a trash third world nation like Pakistan. When there is this level of corruption at the highest levels, it's not a very good sign.

We really need to re-design our constitution and political system before things get out of hand. For instance, what right at all does elections canada have ordering around our RCMP? That is an obvious segway to an abuse of power so those powers should best be taken away.

Why on earth would Elections Canada's head people be appointed insiders of a political party. Think about that. Think of how rediculous that is. It's a blatant, blatant, conflict of intrest.

And you people find this stuff *normal*. You think it's ok. Another day in Canada.

Wow our system and politicians are heading down 'that' path.

[Drea]

Because other countries have these things called 'immigration policies' and do not let people into their countries unless they have a shortage of a specific worker. Even then I will most likely not be able to become a citizen. I'm gone after my job or work visa ends.

I simply cannot get into other countries..

(unless i wanted to go to Asia to teach english.. but that is a very temporary work permit).

It's funny how you guys think that every country runs itself like Canada. Canada is not a normal country. The best way to descibe it is one big 'farce'.

Have you:

Got a roof over your head?

or are you living in tent city? Or squatting in an abandon home?

Food in your belly?

or are you and your family eating out of garbage dumps?

A job to go to?

or are you living off food stamps with no hope of finding work?

Ever visited a doctor for free?

or did you lose everything in order to pay your medical bills?

Turned on a light?

or is your electricity so "sporadic" that you don't know if it will work from one day to the next?

Internet access?

or are you limited in the information you are allowed to access?

Breathe clean air?

or are you walking around with a hanky on your face just so you can breathe?

I get a kick out of you who hate this country. You have nooooo clue... Like a spoiled child who cannot be happy with what he has, he just wants "more".

Indeed Canada is not like any other country. And that is a good thing.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Drea

[mikedavid00]

Have you:

Internet access?

or are you limited in the information you are allowed to access?

Don't get me started.

[Shakeyhands]

And for someone who is as much a blind Liberal Party zealot as you are to complain about sleaze is laugh out loud hypocritical given yours is the party which meets in dark Italian restaurants, patting each other down for microphones as they pass stolen money across the table in brown envelopes.

Translation: Uh oh... they're on to us... QUICK trot out the Adscam stuff!!!!!

[eyeball]

How can the CCP be so blatently dishonest?

The people in the CCP can't help themselves, they are only human. They are suffering from un-protected exposure to power and wealth. The list of human beings that seem to be immune to these is a very very short one, probably no more than a handful or two per generation ever exist.

I know that they are no different than the other parties but give me a break, we as voters are not deaf or blind.

Actually we are very deaf and blind. The best we can hope for is hindsight. We usually find things out but always after the fact and long after anything can be done about it. Apparently there is no legal definition for the term corruption and you can't charge anyone for it per se but an Ottawa-based lawyer society quoted in a G&M story about a month ago (sorry I don't have a link) defined corruption in an official context as secrecy and deception.

The Accountability Act and Privacy Commissioner sound about as Orwellian as it gets. What we really need is an Anti-Secrecy Commissioner armed with a Transparency Act and a mandate to ensure Total Public Awareness of the public domain. If I had anything to say about it I'd wire all the politicians and senior bureacrats to the Internet and real-time souveillance. If nothing else politicians should be doing this voluntarily for their own protection and to demonstrate a tangible committment to accountability.

Who would you vote for, someone who just say's they'll be honest and transparent or someone who'll actually is?

[sharkman]

You are certainly in character with your personal attacks.

Oh but this is rich, shall we take a look at your personal attacks in this thread from yesterday:

part of a sleazy, paranoid and vitriolic campaign by a party that is not transparent and is full of crap on the issue of election spending.

What howlers the right wing tell.

What a pack of lies the right wing tell. RCMP and Elections Canada called the Liberals? Omigod... what paranoia.

What a bunch of lies by a desperate and paranoid right wing Tory party.

Argus said you were getting shrill and you immediately play the "personal attack" card. But you WERE quite shrill yesterday, I'm afraid your personal attack card is trumped by your own behavior.

At any rate, the fact remains that the CPC is involved in legal action against Elections Canada, and Elections Canada is attempting to influence this case by this 'raid'. That the media and the Liberal party were both there to take pictures only makes it look worse for EC.

[madmax]

Has anyone else noticed that Jdobbin got new talking points from the party in his latest package?

Every single post of his refers to the "right wing". I know the Liberals are worried about the NDP making inroads on the Left. Maybe these new talking points are part of their response.

CPC advocates want to deflect from the Headline and the reason why the raids are happening. A good offence is the best defence....

Jdobbin is a proud LPC who often criticises his own party as much as he advocates for what he believes in. I would expect nothing less from someone who has put his name on the line and ran in an election. So before you start being holier then thou, consider running for yourself and experiencing the passion, pain, and scrutiny that comes with an election campaign. Particularly if you do not win.

As for your comments of the NDP making inroads on the leftwing.

LPs I speak with are worried more about their image then about the NDP. They fear a collapse on the Right. The LPC always campaign on the left to gain an electoral advantage, but their growth is on the right, and their base is more on the right. Should more "Emersons" disappear then "Raes" appear, with is mathematically possible, they are in deep trouble.

And in spite of all this, the CPC has been completely unable to find their footing, avoid controversy and take the lead.

This raid is just another example. Why do many CPC supporters blindly support police activities when investigating others, but cry foul, when the rule of law affects them?

Regardless, the public is not really aware of this incident and it will blow over unless the CPC have done something in the scope of the LP adscam debacle.

[DrGreenthumb]

Oh but this is rich, shall we take a look at your personal attacks in this thread from yesterday:

Argus said you were getting shrill and you immediately play the "personal attack" card. But you WERE quite shrill yesterday, I'm afraid your personal attack card is trumped by your own behavior.

At any rate, the fact remains that the CPC is involved in legal action against Elections Canada, and Elections Canada is attempting to influence this case by this 'raid'. That the media and the Liberal party were both there to take pictures only makes it look worse for EC.

Not as bad as the CPC looks when caught stealing and cheating on elections all the while claiming to be open and accountable. Never has a government of Canada been so secretive, sneaky and underhanded as these conservatives.

[jdobbin]

Not as bad as the CPC looks when caught stealing and cheating on elections all the while claiming to be open and accountable. Never has a government of Canada been so secretive, sneaky and underhanded as these conservatives.

It is funny how some on the right think that an attack on the Conservative party is a personal attack. Personal attacks in this forum are those on individuals. How many times do people have to be reminded about that and get warned before that sinks in?

[sharkman]

Not as bad as the CPC looks when caught stealing and cheating on elections all the while claiming to be open and accountable. Never has a government of Canada been so secretive, sneaky and underhanded as these conservatives.

Tell me who they stole from. The case is still before the courts, so your grandstanding is premature. The rest of your post is boring. Could you at least use your imagination?

[sharkman]

It is funny how some on the right think that an attack on the Conservative party is a personal attack. Personal attacks in this forum are those on individuals. How many times do people have to be reminded about that and get warned before that sinks in?

Whatever. Your repeated name calling and shrill attacks makes you just another hypocrite, my friend.

Edited April 17, 2008 by sharkman

[August1991]

For them funelling money to local constituancies and then airing federal ads with fine print at the bottom to evade the election laws in a scamy way? And then $750,000 of 'our' (those who pay taxes) money has to pay for them?

That is open corruption on the part of the CPC and Harper and those involved should step down.

The Elections Canada spending limits are arbitrary and draconian. Technically, it is illegal for you, independent of a political party, to spend any money advertising about a political issue during a campaign.

All that the Tories did is use the spending limits of local candidates to spend nationally. Should that be allowed or not? If a local candidate decides that he or she wants to contribute toward a larger campaign, should that not be possible?

The fact of the matter is that Canada has too many bureaucratic tribunals, ministries, departments, offices, councils and commissions who all believe that they can decide better than you, me or our elected representatives. This nomenklatura is angry because someone is for once contesting, in a perfectly legitimate way, their ability to exercice arbitrary power.

We have seen this recently with the Status of Women council, the nuclear oversight organization, the human rights commission and now with Elections Canada. Even the RCMP believed that it was an independent organization free to organize its own affairs its own way.

----

There was no need to have RCMP officers when the Election Canada sought to search Tory headquarters. There was no need for a raid. Heck, if I understand properly, Elections Canada went twice. This was a prime time show for the cameras.

I have the impression that since Bob Rae was elected, the Liberals are getting ready for an election because this and the attacks in the House against Bernier have all the marks of Rat Pack tactics. This is the only way the Liberals can operate in politics. Character assassination, optics and perceptions. At least the NDP has some principles and beliefs. The Liberals believe in nothing but power and they will do absolutely anything to get it.

[DrGreenthumb]

It is funny how some on the right think that an attack on the Conservative party is a personal attack. Personal attacks in this forum are those on individuals. How many times do people have to be reminded about that and get warned before that sinks in?

Yeah, like it is a personal attack when posters feel they need to attack me personally because I advocate for pot legalization. I use pot for medical reasons(severe arhritis, pain) so when I see an opportunity to point out the ridiculousness of the CPC position that a person should do a mandatory minimum 6 months in jail for growing a single pot plant I gladly capitalize on it. I take it as a personal attack when these posters insult cannabis users with slurs such as pothead, doper, stoner etc. These posters know who they are and feel the need to personally attack me for my advocasy and have to throw in a "pothead" insult even when replying to a post where I make no mention of cannabis at all.

If my doctor and I agree that cannabis is an effective medicine for me, why the hell should I have to consult some pencil pusher in Ottawa about it? What business do the cops have coming between an adult and their chosen method of medical treatment?

I readily admit to "attacking" the Tory party every chance I get, they disgust me. I'm not a huge fan of the Liberals either, but I would rather have a liberal majority than even a tory minority government. I wish the conservatives nothing but the worst, and I hope this latest scandal cause them to implode. Good riddance to bad garbage.

[madmax]

All that the Tories did is use the spending limits of local candidates to spend nationally.

I hope they didn't.

[DrGreenthumb]

The Elections Canada spending limits are arbitrary and draconian. Technically, it is illegal for you, independent of a political party, to spend any money advertising about a political issue during a campaign.

Geez arbitrary and draconian laws , what kind of A-hole would support something like that?

I thought as far as you CPC'ers were concerned, "The Law is the Law" and all who dare break a law, no matter how stupid, arbitrary, or draconian that law might be it had better be punished by some kind of mandaTORY minimum sentence?

Funny how conservatives aren't so law and ordery when the law is being applied to them.

So tell me again what your position is on arbitrary, draconian or unjust laws? You Conservatives have a lot of nerve calling jdobbin a hypocrite when you make posts like that.