Happy Anniversary Iraq!

[bush_cheney2004]

In other words, wake up and smell the roses, Bubba. China and the Arabs own your ass and George Bush is the guy who sold it to them.

Whereas the Americans and others really "own" your ass, and you like it that way too?

[sharkman]

In other words, wake up and smell the roses, Bubba. China and the Arabs own your ass and George Bush is the guy who sold it to them.

As Murrow once said, 'Good night and good luck.'

Uh, no, Clinton was the one who opened up trade with China, and his administration did not do anything to end dependancy on Arab oil, such as allow drilling in Alaska or several other places.

[BubberMiley]

Uh, no, Clinton was the one who opened up trade with China, and his administration did not do anything to end dependancy on Arab oil, such as allow drilling in Alaska or several other places.

Allowing drilling in Alaska wildlife refuge would reduce dependence on Arab oil, but only for a few months. And it would reduce the price of a barrel of oil by about 50 cents. I know conservatives typically have contempt for God's green earth, but do you really think that would be worth it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/

Edited March 23, 2008 by BubberMiley

[sharkman]

Okay, have it your way: Clinton also did not champion some initiative to jump start electric cars or hybrids or some other environmentally friendly car.

If a leftwing news source like MSNBC finds the cost would be reduced 50 cents and only for a few months(AHAHAHAHAHA!), it must be true? The point is, the US wouldn't be spending the billions on oil from nations that hate them and support terrorism. The billions would stay in house, helping their own economy, and environazis would have at least two more great reasons to have a rally/protest and damage public property!

[BubberMiley]

If a leftwing news source like MSNBC finds the cost would be reduced 50 cents and only for a few months(AHAHAHAHAHA!), it must be true?

I didn't realize that GE, which owns MSNBC, was a left-wing cooperative. I guess if you're far enough to the right of the political spectrum, everything looks left wing.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/27/...main/index.html

Also the Green Zone may not be so green anymore.

But we can pin it on Iran

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7311565.stm

Eventhough it is most likely the renewed fighting from Sadr's people.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/28/...main/index.html

President Bush on Friday praised the Iraqi government's military push into Basra as "a defining moment in the history of a free Iraq," saying the regime is fighting criminals.

How many defining moments can one country have!!??? Yep, the progress in Iraq is outstanding, incredible, ... unbelievable if you will.

Even the green zone is not a safe place to be anymore.

[bush_cheney2004]

Even the green zone is not a safe place to be anymore.

Neither is South Central L.A......so what? You can even catch a bullet in Toronto////oh my!

[GostHacked]

Neither is South Central L.A......so what? You can even catch a bullet in Toronto////oh my!

But you don't see tanks or other heavy armour roaming the streets there either. You don't see the gunships clouding the skies.

[Regulus de Leo]

But you don't see tanks or other heavy armour roaming the streets there either. You don't see the gunships clouding the skies.

Sounds like a plan.

[bush_cheney2004]

But you don't see tanks or other heavy armour roaming the streets there either. You don't see the gunships clouding the skies.

No, you see a well armed local, county, and state police force with "gunships". The citizens are also well armed. Just checking the numbers, more Americans seem to die each year from homicide than Iraqis.

[Guest American Woman]

Just checking the numbers, more Americans seem to die each year from homicide than Iraqis.

Considering the fact that the U.S. has over ten times the population of Iraq, your comparison is pointless. But all the same, before commenting further, I'd appreciate it if you would provide a link to your source.

[bush_cheney2004]

Considering the fact that the U.S. has over ten times the population of Iraq, your comparison is pointless. But all the same, before commenting further, I'd appreciate it if you would provide a link to your source.

OK AW, it wasn't a comparison per se, just a fact...but we will take time to find you a precious "source" (yet again), because that will make it all better here in internet forum land. I realize for you it is not good enough to state the commonly known statistics for homicides in America. Cue music for obligatory AW "sources":

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/?

At one point in the 90's, the USA had more than 65 homicides per day, easily more than the recent violent death average in Iraq. No suicide car bombs needed.

[Guest American Woman]

At one point in the 90's, the USA had more than 65 homicides per day, easily more than the recent violent death average in Iraq. No suicide car bombs needed.

So you've now gone from "each year" in the U.S. to "one point in the 90's," is that it?

But let's look at your 65 homicides per day and compare it to the 53 Iraqi deaths per day from vehicle bombs and gunfire/executions in 2007, according to your source. In 1990, the population of the U.S. was only 9 times the population of Iraq today, so we'll take those 53 Iraqi deaths and multiply them by 9 to get the same rate. That would be 477 deaths a day.

So 65 in the U.S. per day compared to 477 in Iraq.

Or we could divide our "65 per day" by 9. That would give us 7.2 compared to 53.

Either way, your "easily more than the recent violent death average in Iraq" claim is way off base.

[bush_cheney2004]

So you've now gone from "each year" in the U.S. to "one point in the 90's," is that it?

....Either way, your "easily more than the recent violent death average in Iraq" claim is way off base.

No it's not....the domestic USA did not include war and occupation, insurgency, or other external influences. However, there was a lot of gang bangin' going on. This is the steady-state condition for America "at peace".

In your efforts to deflect the main point, you appear quite silly. The homicide "rate" is little comfort to the dead.

I like Sec'y Rumsfeld's version: ""..free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things."

[Moonlight Graham]

The war in Iraq reveals everything that is wrong about U.S. foreign policy, and the U.S. in general. There is so much that is good about America, but with this war much of it hasn't revealed itself.

The lies, crimes, and injustices by the Bush admin since 9/11 with regards to the Iraq War are well-known and documented. What dissappoints me is the failure of the American people to do anything about it. Why hasn't anyone in this administration been held legally accountable for what they did? Why are these people still in office (impeach the President about secret blowjobs, but not this??) ? Why haven't Americans flooded their Congressman's phone for calls of impeachment and accountability? And maybe most importantly, what has been done to make sure something like this can NEVER happen again?

Obviously the 100,000+ dead civilians were worth killing so that we could remove Saddam before he could hurt us with those empty metal tubes he had stored.

[bush_cheney2004]

The war in Iraq reveals everything that is wrong about U.S. foreign policy, and the U.S. in general. There is so much that is good about America, but with this war much of it hasn't revealed itself.

Oh well...gotta take the good with the bad. America is the same as it ever was.

The lies, crimes, and injustices by the Bush admin since 9/11 with regards to the Iraq War are well-known and documented. What dissappoints me is the failure of the American people to do anything about it. Why hasn't anyone in this administration been held legally accountable for what they did?

Because "what they did" is not illegal. Americans do not typically indict government officials based on internet forum rantings. I believe re-election is the opposite of impeachment.

Why are these people still in office (impeach the President about secret blowjobs, but not this??) ? Why haven't Americans flooded their Congressman's phone for calls of impeachment and accountability? And maybe most importantly, what has been done to make sure something like this can NEVER happen again?

Nothing has been done. If you are an American please feel free to pitch a fit with your congressional membership.

Obviously the 100,000+ dead civilians were worth killing so that we could remove Saddam before he could hurt us with those empty metal tubes he had stored.

Well yea...Saddam sure thought so!

[Guest American Woman]

....the domestic USA did not include war and occupation, insurgency, or other external influences. However, there was a lot of gang bangin' going on. This is the steady-state condition for America "at peace".

There is a war going on in Iraq. There is an insurgency. Those are the facts. Therefore, to try to insinuate that it's no less dangerous there than it is in the U.S., that homocides occur more often in the U.S. than in Iraq, is positively ludicrous. Misrepresenting the U.S. that way in order to defend Iraq speaks of desperation. It always amazes me when the left gets accused of 'hating America' while asinine comments like this get a free pass.

In your efforts to deflect the main point, you appear quite silly. The homicide "rate" is little comfort to the dead.

Nice attempt to deflect, but the only legitimate comparison is to compare rates. It has nothing to do with "comfort" and everything to do with proving how wrong your "main point" was.

I like Sec'y Rumsfeld's version: ""..free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things."

Saddam was free to do that too. So is the Taliban. Doesn't sound quite as good now, does it? In fact, it makes no sense at all since anyone is "free" to kill someone else. I can't think of one nation on this earth, democracy, dictatorship, socialist, or communist, where the citizens aren't "free" to commit murder.

--------------

If you are an American please feel free to pitch a fit with your congressional membership.

Canadians should feel free to write and make their voices heard, too.

Edited March 30, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

There is a war going on in Iraq. There is an insurgency. Those are the facts. Therefore, to try to insinuate that it's no less dangerous there than it is in the U.S., that homocides occur more often in the U.S. than in Iraq, is positively ludicrous.

Now you are making things up...as usual. I simply opined that there were more homicides in the USA than in Iraq.

Misrepresenting the U.S. that way in order to defend Iraq speaks of desperation. It always amazes me when the left gets accused of 'hating America' while asinine comments like this get a free pass.

Sounds like a personal problem to me...tough titty said the kitty. Iraq doesn't need such a defense. In fact, others have commented that, like the USA, a costly and bloody civil war is just the ticket to settle matters. Let's see...US population in 1860 was about 31 million with about 620,000 deaths. Now that's what I call a real insurgency!

That makes no sense at all and again speaks of desperation and deflection from the issue. The only legitimate comparison is to compare rates. It has nothing to do with "comfort" and everything to do with proving how wrong your "main point" was.

Nonsense....there were/are legitimate concerns about the homicide rate in "peacetime" USA. Stop pretending otherwise.

Saddam was free to do that too. So is the Taliban. Doesn't sound quite as good now, does it? In fact, it makes no sense at all since anyone is "free" to kill someone else. I can't think of one nation on this earth, democracy, dictatorship, socialist, or communist, where the citizens aren't "free" to commit murder.

Then Rumsfeld was right...wasn't he.

Non-Americans are free to write and make their voices heard, too.

And this is relevant to what?

[Guest American Woman]

You made a statement, I elaborated on it, showing the facts. As I said, it was a totally irrelevant statement because it was a totally irrelevant comparison-- and I showed why. Beyond that, I have no desire to get into a 'discussion' with you. Your "precious" sources and "tough titty said the kitty" mentality isn't worthy of my time.

[bush_cheney2004]

You made a statement, I elaborated on it, showing the facts. As I said, it was a totally irrelevant statement because it was a totally irrelevant comparison-- and I showed why. Beyond that, I have no desire to get into a 'discussion' with you. Your "precious" sources and "tough titty said the kitty" mentality isn't worthy of my time.

Then please don't....empower yourself with the ignore option. You have not refuted the "facts"....indeed, you have provided nothing but an indignant response. Frankly, I don't know why you persist if my "mentality" is not "worthy" of your time.

[Guest American Woman]

I persist because correcting your inaccuracies is worthy of my time.

[bush_cheney2004]

I persist because correcting your inaccuracies is worthy of my time.

But you haven't "corrected" anything....as usual. The oft repeated plea for "sources" is your hallmark.

[Guest American Woman]

But you haven't "corrected" anything....as usual. The oft repeated plea for "sources" is your hallmark.

link

[bush_cheney2004]

Total US homicides since 1950 = 887,603

Source: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 1950-2005

887,603 / 55 = 16,138/year average.......damn!