Muslim Immigration and Integration

[Argus]

Yes...I'm aware of that. But did you listen to what the moderate Iman said? He views it as being the other way around.

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Yeah man, I tell ya what, man. That dang ol', dang ol' Internet, man. You just go on there and point and click. Talk about W-W-dot-W-com. An' lotsa nekkid chicks on there, man. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. It's real easy, man.

---Boomhauer: King of the Hill

He's known as an unindicted co-conspirator in the world trade center bombings, according to your cite. How exactly does that make him a moderate?

[Argus]

used to be that way. It still happens, in rape cases. A woman's sexual history, partners, where she was , what was she doing?? It's all brought out in the open. Like it matters?

It still happens in our enlightened western world.

Extremely rarely. And no one in the west ever came up with an idea that a woman's word or testimony was only worth one quarter that of a man. Or that there needed to be a male witness to the rape in order for a guilty verdict.

[Drea]

Extremely rarely. And no one in the west ever came up with an idea that a woman's word or testimony was only worth one quarter that of a man. Or that there needed to be a male witness to the rape in order for a guilty verdict.

You're right Argus. Western women do not face near the level of discrimination as in strict Muslim society.

How does one educate a populace that believes men are inherently superior to women and that women are distainable creatures that need to be controlled, hidden from view and abused...?

Suicide must be awfully high among women in Muslim countries. *sigh*

[Peter F]

Making the military "more inclusive" is a goal for the idiots on the left. Most people just want the military to be more effective and capable.

The US, btw, wanted to make their military more inclusive, too. They only had Christian and Jewish chaplains, but a few years ago they brought in a Muslim to set up a group of Muslim "chaplains" in the US military.

I believe he's in prison now on terrorism charges.

That would be Capt. James Yee

All charges dropped

[DogOnPorch]

He's known as an unindicted co-conspirator in the world trade center bombings, according to your cite. How exactly does that make him a moderate?

Next to this guy...

...he's a moderate.

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All right Goldmember. Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

---Nigel Powers: Goldmember

[Argus]

That would be Capt. James Yee

All charges dropped

No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. It was

Abdul al-Amoudi

[jazzer]

No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. It was

Abdul al-Amoudi

According to Wikipedia seems he was a friend of Dubya:

Al-Amoudi and other Muslim leaders met with then-presidential candidate George W. Bush in Austin in July 2000, offering to support his bid for the White House in exchange for Bush's commitment to repeal certain anti-terrorist laws.

[Leafless]

According to Wikipedia seems he was a friend of Dubya:

Al-Amoudi and other Muslim leaders met with then-presidential candidate George W. Bush in Austin in July 2000, offering to support his bid for the White House in exchange for Bush's commitment to repeal certain anti-terrorist laws.

Tell us more or that in fact you have no more to tell us, with your Liberal type unproven allegations.

The same article says:

Al-Amoudi has been described an "expert in the art of deception" in a report by Newsweek journalists Mark Hosenball and Michael Isikoff, for expressing moderate, pro-American sympathies in his lobbying and public relations work with Americans, but then being caught on camera expressing support for Hamas and Hezbollah at an Islamist rally.

[jazzer]

Just one of many con men I'm sure that Bush hosted on his ranch. I especially like this pic

[AngusThermopyle]

I especially like this pic

Because you enjoy watching men kiss?

[kuzadd]

And to many, many Muslim men Western women = whore, Muslim women = good.

You'd call that bigoted, except that if you ever even contemplated criticizing "brown people" your pointy little head would explode.

like too many white men, wanting to have sex with black women

see black = whore =bad girl

oops a little dose of reality for someone who has none?

gotta get some "brown sugar"

how small is your world?

How narrow is it that, anything outside of your little confines is wrong?

We see this also in black men wanting to have sex with white women, or I knew of one fellow myself, friends of my daughter, a young Jewish lad, who was hung up on Japanese girls, wanted to bed as many of them as he could.

You think this is something unique to Muslim men only??

Yes that is it?

lol

A male family member, worked in Jamaica for a time, you should of heard the comments about having sex with the Jamaican woman, once you go black you never go back, ya know what they say,?? wink wink.

I am all for criticism, if it has a legitimacy to it, but your postulations???

Yet how many white men marry black women, and vise versa??

not just have sex with them actually marry them?

I think you need to get out more.

[kuzadd]

You're right Argus. Western women do not face near the level of discrimination as in strict Muslim society.

How does one educate a populace that believes men are inherently superior to women and that women are distainable creatures that need to be controlled, hidden from view and abused...?

Suicide must be awfully high among women in Muslim countries. *sigh*

actually drea, despite all argus's postualtions and stereotyping, and xenophobia of more then just muslims of course.

suicide rates , appear to be no worse in the ME then in the west

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preventio...cideprevent/en/

world health organization

one can also get charts for individual countries here

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preventio...s/en/index.html

or there is this

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preventio...s/en/index.html

the highest rated suicide commiters seem to be middle aged men?

enough of exposing myself to this xenophobic crap, it just makes me ill and reminds me of the idiots in my past, who called me names or characterized my father as bad, for his place of birth.

Edited March 17, 2008 by kuzadd

[AngusThermopyle]

It appears the topic has wandered a little in this thread. Only the most looney would logically argue against integration. It should be possible for all to agree that lack of integration and thus segregation is a bad thing.

Years ago a writer, a black guy from the Carribean wrote an article for Saturday Night magazine. In the article he put forth the idea that if you want to remain seperate from Canadian culture and values then don't come here in the first place. As he said, when you emigrate to another country the intent should be to become an adopted citizen of the country to which you move. The intent should not be to enforce your cultural beliefs upon all around you in this new country you've decided to set up shop in.

In other words, no lobbying for Sharia law, no condemnation of the mores of the country you've moved to. Our rampant Multi-Cults and apologists probably wont like hearing that but what he said made a lot of sense.

As for the whole rapes in Europe question. Plenty of stats exist to support what is said. Unfortunately its a fact. Perusing the stats shows that the vast majority of rapes are committed by young Muslim males. That may not suit the personal agenda of some but it still remains a recorded fact.

[M.Dancer]

They are poeple who fille their pockets with my tax dollars and pre-occupy their time with issues that are of other countries and should have nothing to do with the daily function of Canada.

They also don't work a 9-5. We pay for them.

Really? Rusdie is a multi millionaire who lives in the UK....Manji is a best selling author and speaker who lives in Canada....

if anything their tax dollars are going to you...

[M.Dancer]

There are plenty of secular Jews and Christians. But Islam is more all-encompassing, a global set of instructions on everything from how to go to the bathroom and what you have to do if a dog touches you, to how governments are to be run, how law should be structured, and how other religions are to be treated. You cannot ignore such a massive guide of instructions in how to live your life and still call yourself a Muslim. And, in fact, if you weren't a solid believer, you wouldn't go through that kind of effort anyway.

You could say the exact same thing about Judaism....therefore there are no secular jews....except there are secular jews and surprise, secular muslims.

[M.Dancer]

Relatively modern? Relatively as compared to Saudi Arabia, perhaps, but not compared to us - or, even, for that matter, 1920s Mississippi.

How many women ran as the head of government in Mississipi in the 20s?

[M.Dancer]

Rushdie is a self proclaimed atheist.

Can'r get any more secular than that....

[M.Dancer]

(And more men in kilts can only be a good thing.)

I will be wearing mine tonight as a show of racial solidrity with the Micks....

[M.Dancer]

Hmmm, didn't see anything about 200 Muslims in the article you linked to, saw a figure of approximately 1%, nothing about 200 though. Why did you provide a link to a post that you had just quoted? Am I missing something here?

She said there are only 648 people in the regular Canadian Forces from predominantly Muslim countries, out of a total roster of 62,500. Using those figures, the Muslim ratio is only about one per cent.

Sheesh.....

[M.Dancer]

The problem of Muslims raping Nordic girls is fairly well-documented by the media and government in that part of the world.

Really? I looked into this claim last year...most of the documenting I found was on blogs and unsourced....I think it is closer to a blood libel charge than reality....someting for the consumption of the gullibly fearful.

[Argus]

like too many white men, wanting to have sex with black women

see black = whore =bad girl

That's actually not part of our popular culture. Black women rarely are seen dating white men, and I have seen very little in popular culture which would suggest many White men have a desire to date or sleep with Black women.

Nor is there anything I have heard or read about substantial numbers of white men being crudely unpleasant and demanding of Black women in clubs and bars.

We see this also in black men wanting to have sex with white women, or I knew of one fellow myself, friends of my daughter, a young Jewish lad, who was hung up on Japanese girls, wanted to bed as many of them as he could.

You think this is something unique to Muslim men only??

It is unique in that Muslim men represent a tiny percentage of the population here and yet I have yet to meet a young white woman who has not been harrassed by them in bars and clubs, who does not describe their come-ons as crude, in-your face and demanding as compared to the generally more hesitant and polite come-ons from Canadian men.

You are correct about Black men having a thing for White women, however, but while they tend to be more cocky in their approaches then White men I haven't heard any complaints about a universal feeling of being confronted by Black men in clubs, in the same manner as I have about Muslim men.

I am all for criticism, if it has a legitimacy to it, but your postulations???

As I said, you can investigate the situation vis a vis Muslims and sexual assaul rates in Nordic countries. You cannot, of course, check that here as we don't record such things... for some reason.

[Argus]

enough of exposing myself to this xenophobic crap, it just makes me ill and reminds me of the idiots in my past, who called me names or characterized my father as bad, for his place of birth.

Might I suggest that they called you names, not because of your place of birth but because they believed you were an unpleasant person?

[JB Globe]

I lived for more than a decade in an area with the highest concentration of Muslims in Canada. I would say that my particular neighbourhood was probably something like 75% Muslim.

Really? And where would this be? because personally I'm not aware of any federal riding that has anything more than say 15% Muslim population.

I've also worked with a number of Muslims.

I wasn't asking about people you said hi and bye to, I was asking if you've had any meaningful relationships with anyone who is Muslim - I was asking if you know anyone whom you discuss these things with on a regular basis.

In a broader context, I happen to have a lot of young female friends, and there isn't one of them who doesn't roll her eyes about Muslims, and how arrogant, crude and obnoxious Muslim men are in clubs and bars.

Argus, this is what I mean about people not being honest with themselves about where their viewpoints come from. OF COURSE Muslim men in bars and clubs are obnoxious, crude and ignorant - do you know why? Because MOST MEN IN GENERAL that go to clubs and bars are obnoxious crude and ignorant.

The only difference of course is that with say, white men, these women and yourself have plenty of personal relationships and other opportunities to interact with white men outside of a toxic environment such as a club where you can meet those from that group that aren't total scumbags. But with Muslim men, that doesn't happen - so their/your only interaction with them is with the scumbags of the group, rather than the group as a whole.

This reminds me of a convo I had with an Aussie who backed up her claim that Aboriginies were terrible with her experiences on public transit in Sydney and how rude all the Aboriginies were. When I asked her if people in general were rude on public transit in Australia, because that was my experience in Toronto, she paused and conceded it wasn't the best place to judge the character of an entire community.

I have yet to meet a young, attractive woman who hasn't had bad experiences, even violent ones, with Muslim men in bars and clubs.

And how many young, attractive women do you know who haven't had bad, even violent experiences with men IN GENERAL in clubs?

I really don't think you're being honest with yourself about how your views on Muslim Canadians have been formed.

[JB Globe]

QUOTE(JB Globe @ Mar 14 2008, 05:08 PM)

Hey Mike,

Question: Can a Muslim man marry your daughter?

Would you be happy at your daughter marrying a member of the KKK?

The Muslim community is not comparable to the KKK, sorry to break it to you.

Maybe it is in your mind, but that would be JUST YOUR MIND, and your opinion is not shared by any political party, anti-discrimination organization. Hell, B'Nai Brith and the UJA couldn't disagree stronger with that comparison.

[JB Globe]

In other words, no lobbying for Sharia law, no condemnation of the mores of the country you've moved to.

You do realize that, most Muslim-Canadians don't want Sharia law in Canada, right? You realize that for many that was a motivating factor that got them to leave their ancestral homeland in the first place? And you realize that while like most Canadians in general, Muslim-Canadians have criticisms of specific aspects of the Canadian government and society, most do not dislike either in general.

As for the whole rapes in Europe question. Plenty of stats exist to support what is said. Unfortunately its a fact. Perusing the stats shows that the vast majority of rapes are committed by young Muslim males. That may not suit the personal agenda of some but it still remains a recorded fact.

Are you talking about Muslim males committing the majority of the total number of rapes? You sure that might not be a per-capita statistic? Link?

Of course, we all know, (and "we" includes Harper, who said this much in a recent speech) that the situation in Canada is much, much different from the situation in Europe. Meaning, that I don't think this stat applies here.