Muslim Immigration and Integration

Argus · March 15, 2008

in clubs and bars eh??
so these are cleary NOT devout followers of Islam Argus????

As opposed to crude and obnoxious (fill in the blank) men in bars and clubs????

It's an interesting fact that Muslim men, regardless of how devout, appear more than a little flexible when it comes to their own behavior with women. Some of the 911 bombers, for example, people who gave their lives to strike a blow against the "Great Satan" went to strip clubs and bars. And as a famous interview with a group of young Muslim Swedes related "When you're young, everyone wants a whore .... er, Swedish girl, but as you mature you want a proper Muslim wife."

cause when I was a younger gal,lol, the men were crude and obnoxious , but they weren't muslim!

Not suggesting all crude men are Muslims, merely that young Muslim men, as a group, tend to have such a contemptuous view of western women that they believe western women are there to service them sexually at their request. In some of the Nordic countries, where they actually keep such statistics, Muslim refugees/immigrants, though a tiny percentage of the population, are reckoned to be responsible for a huge percentage - in some cases the great majority - of rapes.

Argus · March 15, 2008

or perhaps you are simply incapable of comprehending anything outside of your narrow xenophobic views????

Well, I suppose that could be possible. But I think it far more likely you simply aren't bright enough to write anything intelligent.

jazzer · March 15, 2008

While there's no pressing need for a Muslim padre - there are only about 200 Muslims in the military - bringing Demiray in will make the Forces more inclusive, said Col. Stan Johnstone of the Chaplain-General's office from http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...870/?hub=Canada. It's a little outdated, but the other link I provided said there were over 600 from muslim countries. I think one can reasonable assume some of them will be muslim.

Edited March 15, 2008 by jazzer

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

Well, I suppose that could be possible. But I think it far more likely you simply aren't bright enough to write anything intelligent.

well I am bright enough to catch your xenophobia.

Also a devout muslim, wouldn't be in a bar or a club, drinking, if they are, they are not devout,plain and simple, despite your spin on it.

bright people are not xenophobes, bright people don't promote stereotypes, this are traits of simplistic thinkers and simplistic persons, who need narrow views on a variety of subjects , as coping mechanisms.

xenophobia and other stereotypical type thinking is borne out of ignorance or irrrational fear.

all traits of the ill-informed.

where does that leave you??

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

Not suggesting all crude men are Muslims, merely that young Muslim men, as a group, tend to have such a contemptuous view of western women that they believe western women are there to service them sexually at their request. In some of the Nordic countries, where they actually keep such statistics, Muslim refugees/immigrants, though a tiny percentage of the population, are reckoned to be responsible for a huge percentage - in some cases the great majority - of rapes.

How do you KNOW these things?

Oh I see you reckon them.

wow, you know what others 'believe' and you 'reckon' some stuff?

Argus · March 16, 2008

While there's no pressing need for a Muslim padre - there are only about 200 Muslims in the military - bringing Demiray in will make the Forces more inclusive, said Col. Stan Johnstone of the Chaplain-General's office from http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...870/?hub=Canada. It's a little outdated, but the other link I provided said there were over 600 from muslim countries. I think one can reasonable assume some of them will be muslim.

Making the military "more inclusive" is a goal for the idiots on the left. Most people just want the military to be more effective and capable.

The US, btw, wanted to make their military more inclusive, too. They only had Christian and Jewish chaplains, but a few years ago they brought in a Muslim to set up a group of Muslim "chaplains" in the US military.

I believe he's in prison now on terrorism charges.

And the link said from "predominantly Muslim" countries. Lebanon is predominantly Muslim, but it has an awful lot of Christians.

Besides, no one has ever suggested every single Muslim is so indoctrinated with this cultural baggage as to be incapable of learning or growth. Just that far too many are, and that this mass of people does not benefit Canada. We have over a million Muslims. I'm more than willing to concede a few hundred have shrugged off that ancient, ignorant baggage and adopted our ways.

Argus · March 16, 2008

well I am bright enough to catch your xenophobia.
Also a devout muslim, wouldn't be in a bar or a club, drinking, if they are, they are not devout,plain and simple, despite your spin on it.

Because you aren't very bright, I understand why you might be confused about my reasons for disliking Muslim immigration. It is not the religious aspects of Islam I dislike, it is the political and social aspects. Islam is not merely a religion, it is a political force, and it is these beliefs I do not want to see propagated in Canada. By way of comparison, the Amish are also religious, but they don't interfere in others' lives, and don't involve themselves in politics. They're not as violent either.

BTW, just finished watching a show which mentioned the notorious terrorist Ramsay Youssef, the guy responsible for the first World Trade Centre bombing. He dedicated his life to killing westerners on behalf of Islam, saw himself as the great protector of Islam and the Muslim world. He liked to party, liked to drink, and loved the ladies. Just like the 911 bombers.

Mind you, he was still a proud Muslim. If he had heard his wife back home in Pakistan had been seen holding a man's hand he'd have killed her in a second. Never mind he was off in the Phillipines fornicating with anything female that didn't move while he was planning his latest terrorist event.

Argus · March 16, 2008

How do you KNOW these things?

Know what things? The problem of Muslims raping Nordic girls is fairly well-documented by the media and government in that part of the world. You can find the information if you look around on the internet. As for Muslim behavior here - find a young woman, especially a blonde - and ask her about it. You know, there was a lot of air play to the "anti Lebanese race riots" in Australia a while back, but very little play to the reasons behind those riots. The reasons were the behavior of Lebanese immigrant men towards Australian women on the beaches.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Argus

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

""When you're young, everyone wants a whore .... er, Swedish girl, but as you mature you want a proper Muslim wife.""

argus: this is famously known as the madonna/whore complex

I went off to find you a page on this, Sigmund Freud.

This is common to lot's of men, it is not unique to Muslim men.

"Popularly, the term is used to describe an unsatisfiable desire by a man to have his wife or other female partner exhibit both of these mutually exclusive traits. This introduces a dilemma where men may feel unable to love any women that can satisfy them sexually and are unable to be sexually satisfied by any women that they can love. Alternatively, the term is to describe or attempt to justify the behavior of men who pursue multiple women as a way of fulfilling each of these needs."

lots of women to have sex with, not a one for marrying!!!

I know men, who are like this well into their '40's, and they are not muslim.

I call them man whores!

ever hear of this as brimming with intelligence as you are????

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

I understand why you might be confused about my reasons for disliking Muslim immigration. It is not the religious aspects of Islam I dislike, it is the political and social aspects.

Like christianity, it's a political force. right?

So you must surely have issues with that??

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

a little more on the madonna/whore male complex

http://www.healthieryou.com/mhexpert/exp1031003b.html

""For some men, love and sex don't mix. For them, love is reserved for 'good' women, and sex is reserved for 'bad' women. In cases of the Madonna/Whore Complex (or Syndrome), a husband's relationship with his wife may be based upon the unmet intimacy needs he had as an infant. He may unconsciously seek out a woman who reminds him of his mother so that those needs can finally be met."

MontyBurns · March 16, 2008

Making the military "more inclusive" is a goal for the idiots on the left. Most people just want the military to be more effective and capable.

To the left it doesnt matter if the military is any good or not. It only matters whether or not it is "more inclusive" enough. So there is no money for weapons but our soldiers can be rest assured that gays and lesbians are adequately represented in the military.

DogOnPorch · March 16, 2008

a little more on the madonna/whore male complex
http://www.healthieryou.com/mhexpert/exp1031003b.html

""For some men, love and sex don't mix. For them, love is reserved for 'good' women, and sex is reserved for 'bad' women. In cases of the Madonna/Whore Complex (or Syndrome), a husband's relationship with his wife may be based upon the unmet intimacy needs he had as an infant. He may unconsciously seek out a woman who reminds him of his mother so that those needs can finally be met."

The veil...the burqa...the hijab...etc, etc. What purpose do they serve again? Are they not a demarkation line between a 'proper Muslim woman' and all other women?

-----------------------------------------------------

Hans Gruber: This time John Wayne does not walk off into the sunset with Grace Kelly.

Det. John McClane: That was Gary Cooper, a*****e.

---Die Hard

Edited March 16, 2008 by DogOnPorch

Drea · March 16, 2008

The veil...the burqa...the hijab...etc, etc. What purpose do they serve again? Are they not a demarkation line between a 'proper Muslim woman' and all other women?

They serve as barriers. So men won't need to look and won't be "tempted". It's all about men not being able to control their urges -- Muslims believe that if a male sees a female without covering he will be reduced to a drooling, gibbering sexual mess -- just by looking!

If I were 25... I would dance nekkid and then not let them have any.... :lol:

DogOnPorch · March 16, 2008

They serve as barriers. So men won't need to look and won't be "tempted". It's all about men not being able to control their urges -- Muslims believe that if a male sees a female without covering he will be reduced to a drooling, gibbering sexual mess -- just by looking!
If I were 25... I would dance nekkid and then not let them have any....

That may be the "popular" twist on it, but, if you listen to some of the explanations they serve as a line between good and bad types of women. For example, several Imams have been quoted saying those women uncovered are asking for rape.

Or this fellow's opinion...

He's known as a moderate...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siraj_Wahhaj

---------------------------------------

March Hare: Have some wine.

(Alice looked all round the table, but there was nothing on it but tea.)

Alice: I don't see any wine.

March Hare: There isn't any.

Alice: Then it wasn't very civil of you to offer it.

March Hare: It wasn't very civil of you to sit down without being invited.

---Lewis Carroll

bush_cheney2004 · March 16, 2008

They serve as barriers. So men won't need to look and won't be "tempted". It's all about men not being able to control their urges -- Muslims believe that if a male sees a female without covering he will be reduced to a drooling, gibbering sexual mess -- just by looking!

Really? Are you sure all Muslims believe this? I think not.

If I were 25... I would dance nekkid and then not let them have any....

Everybody make up your own silent joke in response to this! :lol:

Edited March 16, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

Drea · March 16, 2008

That may be the "popular" twist on it, but, if you listen to some of the explanations they serve as a line between good and bad types of women. For example, several Imams have been quoted saying those women uncovered are asking for rape.

That's correct -- women who do not cover themselves are open to rape -- no fault of the man, of course, as he simply cannot (no matter how staunchly religious) resist the female form. So SHE is blamed rather than HIS lack of self control.

Imagine what that would be like here? *shudder*

It used to be a woman was blamed for being raped -- "What was she wearing? Did she act in a way that could be considered promiscuous? Was she a virgin or had she had sex before?

All those questions used to be asked (still are in some circles) of western rape victims. Thankfully we've come away from that for the most part.

Edited to add:

No need to be silent with yer jokes! Let 'em rip! I am all over that "Isn't she sexy" days. Lived it. Done. Over. Glad of it --was a lot of pressure to be perfect all the time. Now I am just old and relaxed and imperfect.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Drea

bush_cheney2004 · March 16, 2008

Edited to add:
No need to be silent with yer jokes! Let 'em rip! I am all over that "Isn't she sexy" days. Lived it. Done. Over. Glad of it --was a lot of pressure to be perfect all the time. Now I am just old and relaxed and imperfect.

That's even funnier. Even the Muslims you have arrogantly spoken for are laughing.

Drea · March 16, 2008

Yes, it is funny that even western men... some of you *you know who you are* still think that young women are commodities to be "used". Some of you almost got white stuff all over the board regarding that high price escort...!

Smart woman imo, she is now going to be famous and all she had to do is open her legs for the man who "could not resist temptation". And he loses his career and his family. Now THAT is funny!

Who is the weaker sex again. :lol:

Back on topic -- yes I believe that Muslims need to *integrate more fully into our society. Leave their antiquated notions behind (isn't that why the come here in the first place?) and begin new lives.

*they will need to "tone down" their religion in order to do this. How do we get them to all but abandon Islam? We all but abandon all other religions too. We can't have a nation which calls itself "Christian" and open to all religions if their integration is to succeed. If we push all religion back where it belongs (in the home, in the church) then their integration into our society may actually succeed. If our entire nation were secular in all public affairs, they would stand out as "odd". As it is, they simply have a different take on "god" and feel they are no different than anyone else in practicing their religion.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Drea

DogOnPorch · March 16, 2008

That's correct -- women who do not cover themselves are open to rape -- no fault of the man, of course, as he simply cannot (no matter how staunchly religious) resist the female form. So SHE is blamed rather than HIS lack of self control.
Imagine what that would be like here? *shudder*

It used to be a woman was blamed for being raped -- "What was she wearing? Did she act in a way that could be considered promiscuous? Was she a virgin or had she had sex before?

All those questions used to be asked (still are in some circles) of western rape victims. Thankfully we've come away from that for the most part.

Yes...I'm aware of that. But did you listen to what the moderate Iman said? He views it as being the other way around.

--------------------------------------------------

Yeah man, I tell ya what, man. That dang ol', dang ol' Internet, man. You just go on there and point and click. Talk about W-W-dot-W-com. An' lotsa nekkid chicks on there, man. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. It's real easy, man.

---Boomhauer: King of the Hill

kuzadd · March 16, 2008

That's correct -- women who do not cover themselves are open to rape -- no fault of the man, of course, as he simply cannot (no matter how staunchly religious) resist the female form. So SHE is blamed rather than HIS lack of self control.
Imagine what that would be like here? *shudder*

It used to be a woman was blamed for being raped -- "What was she wearing? Did she act in a way that could be considered promiscuous? Was she a virgin or had she had sex before?

All those questions used to be asked (still are in some circles) of western rape victims. Thankfully we've come away from that for the most part.

Edited to add:

No need to be silent with yer jokes! Let 'em rip! I am all over that "Isn't she sexy" days. Lived it. Done. Over. Glad of it --was a lot of pressure to be perfect all the time. Now I am just old and relaxed and imperfect.

used to be that way. It still happens, in rape cases. A woman's sexual history, partners, where she was , what was she doing?? It's all brought out in the open. Like it matters?

It still happens in our enlightened western world.

Argus · March 16, 2008

""When you're young, everyone wants a whore .... er, Swedish girl, but as you mature you want a proper Muslim wife.""
argus: this is famously known as the madonna/whore complex

Kuzadd: it's nice to know that at least your ignorance has a predictability, in that it encompasses every subject you write about or cite.

No, the Madonna whore complex has nothing whatever to do with the contempt many Muslim men demonstrate for Western women. Their contempt is based upon Western women not acting as they believe they should, ie, retaining their virginity, wearing modest clothing, being properly meek around men, etc. And so, believing them to be whores, they treat them like whores.

Argus · March 16, 2008

Like christianity, it's a political force. right?
So you must surely have issues with that??

I do, in fact, though it's so weak in most of the West to have little force, and none of it as as crude and backwards as political Islam.

You will not find huge numbers of American southern Baptists wanting to live under religious law, for example, as the majority of Muslims do.

Argus · March 16, 2008

a little more on the madonna/whore male complex
http://www.healthieryou.com/mhexpert/exp1031003b.html

""For some men, love and sex don't mix. For them, love is reserved for 'good' women, and sex is reserved for 'bad' women. In cases of the Madonna/Whore Complex (or Syndrome), a husband's relationship with his wife may be based upon the unmet intimacy needs he had as an infant. He may unconsciously seek out a woman who reminds him of his mother so that those needs can finally be met."

And to many, many Muslim men Western women = whore, Muslim women = good.

You'd call that bigoted, except that if you ever even contemplated criticizing "brown people" your pointy little head would explode.

Argus · March 16, 2008

Really? Are you sure all Muslims believe this? I think not.
Everybody make up your own silent joke in response to this!

Abol-Hassan Bani-Sadr, the first president of the Islamic Republic, announced that scientific research had shown that women’s hair emitted rays that drove men insane. To protect the public, the new regime passed special legislation in 1982 making the new form of hijab (along with conservative clothing) mandatory for all females aged above six, regardless of religious faith. And despite a study showing that the imposition of hijab on young girls caused “serious depression and, in some cases, suicide”, supreme leader Ali Khamenehi responded “Casting off the hijab encourages the culture of nudity and weakens the sacred values of Islam.”

Maybe Iranians are just particularly stupid. Then again, the Saudi police drove schoolgirls back into a burning building to their deaths because their hair was uncovered. No doubt they saved many men from going insane.

But in any event, if there is one thing you can be certain the chador, and covering the hair symbolize, it is the utter rejection of western values. So if you don't share western values why would you want to live in the West? Money, I suppose.

Doesn't mean I want you here, though.