There have been 4 gun shooingin the US

[margrace]

Why is this happening

[guyser]

Why is this happening

Its not.

Most if not all of them occured in "Gun free zones" . Imposssible to have happened.

[Black Dog]

Because the easier it is to get guns, the more likely it is that someone is gonna get shot?

[Drea]

Nuh uh!

People kill people, guns are just inanimate objects.

/sarcasm

Edited February 15, 2008 by Drea

[maldon_road]

Remember Dawson. There was an armed police officer there on business when the shooting started. How many more would have been dead if he hadn't been there to take the gunman on?

Gunman, 19, pleads guilty

Brought weapon to LaSalle high school to confront student who fought with his brother

gunman

[bush_cheney2004]

Reality check: each year there are 18,000+ homicides and even more suicides in the USA, many involving guns.

So what's so special about this week..would you feel better if they were on alternate Wednesdays?

Edited February 15, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

So what's so special about this week..would you feel better if they were on alternate Wednesdays?

What's "special" about the gun shootings being referred to in this thread is that they all took place at schools/universities. But there were five, not four: Illinois, Ohio, Louisiana, Tennessee and California.

[eyeball]

Imagine how special this week would be if we were discussing say, the latest terrorist bombings?

Yep, people would be crying like babies for the government to...oh never mind...

[Borg]

Terrorist routinely attacked schools in Israel until they armed certain teachers.

The attacks have pretty much stopped.

And no teachers have been shot.

Borg

[Guest American Woman]

Because the easier it is to get guns, the more likely it is that someone is gonna get shot?

That doesn't answer the question as to why this is happening, though. There's much more than the fact that one can get their hands on a gun that's causing this rash of gun sprees/violence in schools and universities in the U.S. I believe that's what margrace is addressing here. Why is this happening? Why are students doing this? Why are students who want to commit suicide feeling the need to take other innocent people with them?

I don't understand it. It's much more than having access to guns. It's the mindset; the attitude behind this violence. It's the cause. The gun is the means, but it doesn't explain the actions. The reason.

I was shocked to learn that there were five instances of gun violence in schools/universities in the U.S. this past week. I find that every bit as troubling as a suicide attack. In it's own way, it is a suicide attack when someone desiring to commit suicide takes others out with them. I realize not all of the instances fit this bill, but too many of the mass random shootings that occur do.

Edited February 16, 2008 by American Woman

[margrace]

I was reading somewhere about our young people being depressed. I wonder if the whole feeling for us is that we are going nowhere, that a depression is on its way and that a lot of young people will not be able to attain the glizzy type jobs because they aren't going to be there.

Canada has its share of shooting also but none lately, it sounds bad for the US but we must remember that there are over 300 million there as compared to 32 million here.

[eyeball]

I wonder if the whole feeling for us is that we are going nowhere, that a depression is on its way and that a lot of young people will not be able to attain the glizzy type jobs because they aren't going to be there.

The water hole is getting smaller and the animals are getting meaner. Its probably more complicated than that in each individual human case but I think the overall social effect has been well documented in experiments involving rats and cages.

[BC_chick]

That doesn't answer the question as to why this is happening, though. There's much more than the fact that one can get their hands on a gun that's causing this rash of gun sprees/violence in schools and universities in the U.S. I believe that's what margrace is addressing here. Why is this happening? Why are students doing this? Why are students who want to commit suicide feeling the need to take other innocent people with them?

Suicide stems from depression which is anger toward onself. It's the feeling of doom, of not fitting in, of looking at the world through a window where everyone else knows how to get along but the depressed person.

Add that in with a society where there is such a disconnect amongst its people, mix in the glorification of violence along with the media-frenzy which gives this otherwise helpless person a demi-God status during his/her 15 minutes of fame, and you have a recipe for disaster.

That's why they feel the need to take out as many as possible during their personal exit - because their rage is no longer directed at themselves for not fitting in - they're angry at the others instead. It's no longer them that doesn't know how to fit in, it's the others who won't allow them.

Yet instead of turning to a community for help, they're on their own. Turning on the TV or popping in a DVD they see that they can be a hero for killing the "powerful" in the name of the weak.

That's my personal opinion as to why these murder-suicides have mushroomed.

I also believe that the first order of business in rectifying this situation is censorship on their murdering faces. Every time one of these murderers kill someone their face is on every TV and newspaper for days to come. Honour the victims, report the news, but don't give the murderer exactly what s/he was seeking when deciding to kill as many people as possible.

We may not be able control the causes of feeling of isolation by bringing back the community. But even though we can't control the causes, we can control the goal of the savagry - the desire to be someone, to be known, to be *seen* in a world where a person feels invisible.

[kuzadd]

Suicide stems from depression which is anger toward onself. It's the feeling of doom, of not fitting in, of looking at the world through a window where everyone else knows how to get along but the depressed person.

Add that in with a society where there is such a disconnect amongst its people, mix in the glorification of violence along with the media-frenzy which gives this otherwise helpless person a demi-God status during his/her 15 minutes of fame, and you have a recipe for disaster.

That's why they feel the need to take out as many as possible during their personal exit - because their rage is no longer directed at themselves for not fitting in - they're angry at the others instead. It's no longer them that doesn't know how to fit in, it's the others who won't allow them.

Yet instead of turning to a community for help, they're on their own. Turning on the TV or popping in a DVD they see that they can be a hero for killing the "powerful" in the name of the weak.

That's my personal opinion as to why these murder-suicides have mushroomed.

I also believe that the first order of business in rectifying this situation is censorship on their murdering faces. Every time one of these murderers kill someone their face is on every TV and newspaper for days to come. Honour the victims, report the news, but don't give the murderer exactly what s/he was seeking when deciding to kill as many people as possible.

We may not be able control the causes of feeling of isolation by bringing back the community. But even though we can't control the causes, we can control the goal of the savagry - the desire to be someone, to be known, to be *seen* in a world where a person feels invisible.

BC chick your mistaken only 'arabs/muslims committ these types of acts, in the whole entire world.

random murders,

not superior and civilized western people, who have more superior civilizations and superior ethics and morals.

oops sorry I was spoofing off of the usual suspects who always allege our superior ways, and rabidly over simplify complex issues, and the fact that as a society we are so civil and non-violent, LOL!

It certainly doesn't appear that way now does it?

Edited February 16, 2008 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

That doesn't answer the question as to why this is happening, though. There's much more than the fact that one can get their hands on a gun that's causing this rash of gun sprees/violence in schools and universities in the U.S. I believe that's what margrace is addressing here. Why is this happening? Why are students doing this? Why are students who want to commit suicide feeling the need to take other innocent people with them?

I don't understand it. It's much more than having access to guns. It's the mindset; the attitude behind this violence. It's the cause. The gun is the means, but it doesn't explain the actions. The reason.

I was shocked to learn that there were five instances of gun violence in schools/universities in the U.S. this past week. I find that every bit as troubling as a suicide attack. In it's own way, it is a suicide attack when someone desiring to commit suicide takes others out with them. I realize not all of the instances fit this bill, but too many of the mass random shootings that occur do.

I think you are on to something, it is not the ease of access to guns. I personally think people should have the right to bear arms.

I believe it is a disconnect in society, a sense of hoplessness, despair, etc.,

As a whole, society has lost it's cohesion and people feel they do not belong to their society at large.

[jazzer]

I think you are on to something, it is not the ease of access to guns. I personally think people should have the right to bear arms.

I believe it is a disconnect in society, a sense of hoplessness, despair, etc.,

As a whole, society has lost it's cohesion and people feel they do not belong to their society at large.

IMO, the U.S. is a fear based society, unlike Canada where guns are harder to get, doors are still unlocked etc. We still have our share of crime, but statistically it's usually less per 100,000 than the U.S. link

Edited February 17, 2008 by jazzer

[moderateamericain]

I think you are on to something, it is not the ease of access to guns. I personally think people should have the right to bear arms.

I believe it is a disconnect in society, a sense of hoplessness, despair, etc.,

As a whole, society has lost it's cohesion and people feel they do not belong to their society at large.

Im going to catch hell for this. But I think it stems from two things. First, the break down of traditional family values. Families are less and less connected with each other. I would not even mind if it was a Gay family just so long as family values are present. I also think because you see more and more of the dual income families that the children feel more inclined to do things to get attention. Since one or both of their parents are not present often enough. Now I am not saying women get back into the kitchen at all.

Secondly I belive that kids today are taught to pay attention to their emotions too much. They have emotion months in schools and such. I think its good to be able to identify your emotions but i believe its not good to act out of emotion. I dont see teachers pushing logic, i hear things like how does that make you FEEL. Now im not a unemotional bastard but I think there is a balance that older generations posess that these younger kids do not have instilled in them. Also, since when did we put kids on drugs for every little thing. Got ADD? means you have to work harder than the next kid to get ahead.

[Borg]

IMO, the U.S. is a fear based society, unlike Canada where guns are harder to get, doors are still unlocked etc. We still have our share of crime, but statistically it's usually less per 100,000 than the U.S. link

Boy are you living in the past.

Stats can be made to say anything.

Home invasions on the way up, violent crime up or down depending on who you believe, knives the weapon of choice, canada is becoming the child porn world capital, drugs climbing, and gangs moving in and the beat goes on.

You are tooting a horn that does not deserve to be tooted. Typically canuckleheads are quite arrogant about their wonderful country and tend to love to rub the southern neighbours nose in it.

Hmmmm..... Hog Town Ontario is a more dangerous city than many in the south. Montreal and Vancouver rapidly getting their.

Criminals walk and cops waste their time.

Blah, blah, blah .......

canada is safe - yup ...... no more so than many small towns south of the border.

Borg

[capricorn]

Secondly I belive that kids today are taught to pay attention to their emotions too much.

Kids today don't know how to deal with their feelings on their own. I think overprotecting them from life's bumps is very destructive to their inner development as independent, self thinking human beings. One glaring example is grief counselors. What is the purpose of grief counselors if not to have kids dwell on whatever is bothering them, and as you point out all attention is focussed on emotion. It reminds me of a situation where my child scrapped his knee. The more attention I gave to the scrapped knee and doted, the more my child cried and fretted, and seemed inconsolable. But if I patch up the knee, ignore it and engage my child in some activity or another, the scrapped knee is forgotten and heals, and all is well. Our whole attitude in dealing with our children today is very perplexing.

[kuzadd]

Im going to catch hell for this. But I think it stems from two things. First, the break down of traditional family values. Families are less and less connected with each other. I would not even mind if it was a Gay family just so long as family values are present. I also think because you see more and more of the dual income families that the children feel more inclined to do things to get attention. Since one or both of their parents are not present often enough. Now I am not saying women get back into the kitchen at all.

Secondly I belive that kids today are taught to pay attention to their emotions too much. They have emotion months in schools and such. I think its good to be able to identify your emotions but i believe its not good to act out of emotion. I dont see teachers pushing logic, i hear things like how does that make you FEEL. Now im not a unemotional bastard but I think there is a balance that older generations posess that these younger kids do not have instilled in them. Also, since when did we put kids on drugs for every little thing. Got ADD? means you have to work harder than the next kid to get ahead.

You won't catch hell for this. I don't think it's values, it is IMO the breakdown of a cohesive society, wether it is family, close, extended or otherwise. It is people not talking to people, not talking to neighbours, people not interacting and alienating themselves.

to blame families many of whom struggle with low paying jobs , difficulty making ends meet, is counter productive. They already struggle. Wages have been stagnant in real terms for something like 30 yrs, meanwhile look at the price of homes?

I don't think being aware of emotions is problematic in fact I have never heard of that before?

Also, since when did we put kids on drugs for every little thing.

I have some serious issues with that!!!!!

That is problematic to be sure, but it goes back to overworked parents, overcrowded classrooms, governmental guidelines, the goal of conformity , and more.