The new gas station law in BC

[Carinthia]

The new pay before you pump law that kicks in today in BC is ludicrous for the small gas stations in rural BC. This law is practical for the lower mainland where it's easy to drive off without paying and get lost in the crowd. What about small Ma & Pa businesses on the small islands and other small communities where this law is going to cost the owners money to implement? Just try ripping off the gas station on one of the small islands around the coast without getting caught. There is nowhere to go to escape and everybody knows everybody. Not well thought out at all.

[White Doors]

More importantly, why the need to make this a 'law'? what's wrong with letting individual gas station operators decide what is best for them?

unreal.

[eyeball]

I think this new law stems from the need of Workers Compensation Board officials to be seen doing something. WCB is notorious for its draconian reactions to high profile workplace deaths and injuries.

The death that triggered this latest law was indeed tragic but WCB could just as easily have told gas station attendants their job doesn't require them to jump in front of a vehicle that's leaving without paying.

Edited February 1, 2008 by eyeball

[Wilber]

I think this new law stems from the need of Workers Compensation Board officials to be seen doing something. WCB is notorious for its draconian reactions to high profile workplace deaths and injuries.

The death that triggered this latest law was indeed tragic but WCB could just as easily have told gas station attendants their job doesn't require them to jump in front of a vehicle that's leaving without paying.

Unfortunately the WCB doesn't pay their wages and some employers may have other ideas. I think it will hardest on the small stations in metro areas that don't have pay at the pump ability. For the little guys in isolated places it will just be an inconvenience because they are not as likely to have that kind of competition.

[Carinthia]

Consider this:

There are continuous line-ups in the city, everyone is in a hurry, and in the line-up there is an elderly couple who take 10 minutes to get out of their car, lock it , pay, come back, wait for a fill, find out they paid too much (they don't like paying with credit cards) then they have to go back & get their change. Behind them, a young mother with 2 kids in the back. She has to leave the car to pay, so she has to unstrap the kids, get them out of the car, lock the car, take them with her, trying to watch for cars coming in & out of the station, go back restrap them in & finally leave. A disabled person is behind her in a van, he/she can't get out at all so has to hope that when he/she gives their credit card or deb. card, it is not compromised by the attendant who took it...It is much worse in the city because you don't know any of the gas jocks, and shouldn't trust them, either.

They said they did public hearings? No one I have talked to ever heard about them (drivers, mechanics, city workers) And then there's the forgotten working poor who HAVE no credit. No-one who wants to pay cash will ever have a full tank again!!

[eyeball]

Consider this:

...everyone is in a hurry...

Yep. My worst experience with road-rage was at a crowded self-serve gas-bar.

[Leafless]

If there is anything to convince people to walk or take a bus this is it.

[August1991]

More importantly, why the need to make this a 'law'? what's wrong with letting individual gas station operators decide what is best for them?

unreal.

Cui bono.

[Carinthia]

If there is anything to convince people to walk or take a bus this is it.

Ya, it's a conspiracy.

[kimmy]

More importantly, why the need to make this a 'law'? what's wrong with letting individual gas station operators decide what is best for them?

If this was to be done, it had to apply to everybody. Otherwise, stations would gain a competitive advantage by ignoring it.

The justification for the law was the death of a gas-station attendant who was killed while trying to prevent a "gas-and-run" theft. While that was an extreme incident, I have heard that attendants are often subject to violence in similar circumstances. And gas stations lose thousands of dollars to "gas and run" theft. Gas station owners are in favor of it... as long as their competitors have to do it too.

In a few months, nobody is going to think it's a big deal.

-k

[August1991]

If this was to be done, it had to apply to everybody. Otherwise, stations would gain a competitive advantage by ignoring it.

The justification for the law was the death of a gas-station attendant who was killed while trying to prevent a "gas-and-run" theft. While that was an extreme incident, I have heard that attendants are often subject to violence in similar circumstances. And gas stations lose thousands of dollars to "gas and run" theft. Gas station owners are in favor of it... as long as their competitors have to do it too.

In a few months, nobody is going to think it's a big deal.

-k

That's naive, kimmy.

New Jersey forbids self-serve gasoline stations. (Yes, it is illegal in New Jersey - and Oregon - to put gasoline in your own car.) You have to let the attendant do it.

To figure out New Jersey, head to the highway.

It's how state residents commute to New York City and Philadelphia. It's how Jerseyites go to the shore. For better or worse, it’s part of the state’s identity. The Garden State has no hometowns, goes the lame old joke -- only highway exit numbers.

So when gas prices recently started climbing, Gov. Jon Corzine (D) suggested the state test self-service pumps to lower the cost of traveling.

The result was a near revolt.

Link

Why?

Cui bono.

----

If it were truly better to pay before pumping, gas stations would impose this rule on their own. Many gas stations in Montreal (and the US) choose to do this now (after 11 pm) without any regulation. In most situations, when a rule/regulation is suggested or imposed, it is often wise to ask who will benefit from the rule.

Edited February 2, 2008 by August1991

[eyeball]

I suppose we'll eventually get used to this but what a pain in the ass. I fill up at a gas-bar in a small town where everyone's known me for years. I typically drive in, jump out and fill up on marked boat and chainsaw fuel in addition to normal gas for the trucks I use in my business and I often use cheques and sometimes buy a couple of hundred dollars worth at a time. I was thinking about getting a diesel truck but then I'd have three seperate fuel bills to estimate in advance - scratch that idea I guess.

I wonder how often I'll have to void a cheque or wait for a refund on my credit card if I overpay?

I can see some people getting quite anal about this just because they can. How will people be able to "fill 'er up" without automatically triggering two or more trips to the till? Maybe we should have just done away self-service stations and require attendants to take our keys away until they've finished.

[Borg]

Consider this:

There are continuous line-ups in the city, everyone is in a hurry, and in the line-up there is an elderly couple who take 10 minutes to get out of their car, lock it , pay, come back, wait for a fill, find out they paid too much (they don't like paying with credit cards) then they have to go back & get their change. Behind them, a young mother with 2 kids in the back. She has to leave the car to pay, so she has to unstrap the kids, get them out of the car, lock the car, take them with her, trying to watch for cars coming in & out of the station, go back restrap them in & finally leave. A disabled person is behind her in a van, he/she can't get out at all so has to hope that when he/she gives their credit card or deb. card, it is not compromised by the attendant who took it...It is much worse in the city because you don't know any of the gas jocks, and shouldn't trust them, either.

They said they did public hearings? No one I have talked to ever heard about them (drivers, mechanics, city workers) And then there's the forgotten working poor who HAVE no credit. No-one who wants to pay cash will ever have a full tank again!!

Tell Mom to go to a full serve.

Borg

[Borg]

If there is anything to convince people to walk or take a bus this is it.

Pretty tough for those who live and work where there is nothing other than what you drive.

Borg

[Carinthia]

Pretty tough for those who live and work where there is nothing other than what you drive.

Borg

Absolutely! You can't force people out of their cars if you give them no alternative.

This stupid law is just another case of disconnect. The Premier can just order up that limo to get to the office and leave his driver to hang out at the pump waiting in line during the day. And the driver can use the parlimentary credit card to make it easier as well.

[Drea]

eyeball, If the gas station knows you and you live in a small town you can still pump then pay... I do at the corner store, the owner always says "go ahead", cause he knows me. He doesn't have those fancy pay pumps.

Borg, there are NO full serve stations where I live. There was one but they shut down and I used to go there all the time as I hate pumping my own gas when I'm all dressed for work.

To the person who says "take the bus"... darn big city dweller! Most centres do not have timely bus service. And in my job I drive all day -- I'd look pretty funny in my suit with my briefcase on a bicycle! LOL

Edited February 2, 2008 by Drea

[geoffrey]

Just pay at the pump. It's way more secure than using your credit card inside. It's harder to tamper with a gas pump than with a little CC machine in the shop. I'm really suprised there hasn't been a move for gas stations to get rid of their people and just have full automation.

For those in Calgary, I noticed that there is an ESSO over by 52nd and Memorial that is completely unattended, pay at the pump only.

It's the way it will be in the future. Even my 70 year old grandparents pay at the pump after I explained how much more secure it is, and they are far from tech savvy.

It will happen sooner or later, and you might as well get used to it now.

[Leafless]

Pretty tough for those who live and work where there is nothing other than what you drive.

Borg

Well, it is just a matter of time before all you country dwellers will be flocking to the city anyways.

When gas reaches the $2.00-$3.00 level or more, you will all be mothballing your tin boxes anyways.

[Drea]

so what about those of us who have to drive for a living?

What do we do? Mothball our "tin boxes" and walk around? I have clients that are tens of kilometres apart... shall I start walking now to get to my appointment for Tuesday?

Not only that but not all people are apartment dwellers, nor do they want to be.

[eyeball]

eyeball, If the gas station knows you and you live in a small town you can still pump then pay... I do at the corner store, the owner always says "go ahead", cause he knows me. He doesn't have those fancy pay pumps.

This will only work until undercover WCB agents sting a few owners with fines. Apparently this is not just about pay and pump its also about pay before you purchase anything that involves a potentially vulnerable employee at a drive through.

In any case it sounds like our gas-bar will be expanding their self-serve card-lock debit system to give the general public and small business the opportunity to purchase gas whenever they want. They have a card-lock diesel pump for large trucks that want to fuel up in the middle of the night and they'll be putting in a gas pump too. It looks like the unions and the BC Fed have been pushing for these changes from a safety perspective for awhile too. It'll be too bad if a bunch of people lose their jobs to automation but I suppose that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[msj]

This is not only about the death of a gas station attendant.

I was almost involved in a head on collision as a car was quickly exiting a gas station and the gas station attendant was chasing the car.

So it could effect any one of us at any time.

Having said that, I doubt the statistics would justify this law.

But then, I always pay at the pump anyways since it is more convenient so it's not like I'm going to vote out some politician over a minor thing like this.

[Carinthia]

This is not only about the death of a gas station attendant.

I was almost involved in a head on collision as a car was quickly exiting a gas station and the gas station attendant was chasing the car.

So it could effect any one of us at any time.

Having said that, I doubt the statistics would justify this law.

But then, I always pay at the pump anyways since it is more convenient so it's not like I'm going to vote out some politician over a minor thing like this.

It could have an economic impact. If people are forced to pay at the pump they won't be doing any impulse buying while in the store.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Carinthia

[msj]

It could have an economic impact. If people are forced to pay at the pump they won't be doing any impulse buying while in the store.

What economic impact are you measuring?

The loss by the gas station or the savings by the customer who doesn't indulge or gets his/her stuff cheaper when he/she goes to the grocery store or Wal-Mart?

[Carinthia]

What economic impact are you measuring?

The loss by the gas station or the savings by the customer who doesn't indulge or gets his/her stuff cheaper when he/she goes to the grocery store or Wal-Mart?

Oh come on now, we all buy food on hoof. Even if it is just a granola bar.

[msj]

Oh come on now, we all buy food on hoof. Even if it is just a granola bar.

So what?

There is no measurable decline in economic activity which is what you were trying to imply.

There likely will be an economic shift away from overpriced junk at gas stations but this is likely to benefit more people than it hurts.