Why is Israel the biggest terrorist state in the world?

[Rue]

Not quite. But I guess one has to be something of an academic to fully appreciate and understand the nature of the debate surrounding his works.

So Keng now you claim to be an academic as well as a Christian. So do share with us your academic expertise. what degrees do you have Keng? Or is this another one of those references to how superior you are but when challenged to back up your bragging as to your academic expertise, like your bragging about being of a Christian demonination that is the only true Christian one-you will cower and not answer?

Do tell us. Share your academic training. I will be pleased to share mine if you ask. But of course the difference between us keng is I have never once come on this forum and shoved my alleged academic credentials in anyone's face to try belittle them or insult them. In fact keng even Buffy who I debate as strongly as I can hoping she will not be corupted by people like you I respect because at least she tries to debate. She makes an effort to do something genuine. She does not intentionally insult people or claim to be superior to them which is why I respect her very much and show her the highest form of respect I can give-strong debate. How about you? You have yet to debate anyone. You have yet to come on this forum and provide a referenced source for any of your opinions or to respond to anyone's comments with counter-points. All you have done is express subjective remarks dismissing people and for the first time when you did provide a reference you didn't even quote it or reference it to the very point you were making! It didn't even support what you were saying...at least Buffy references her opinions and does read what she quotes. How about you?

So now Keng, do tell us. You come on this forum as historian, theologian, moral judge, Christian authority, expert on the holocaust, and now you brag about it.

So tell us. Show us what your academic expertise is. Or will hide from that as you do your alleged references to being a member of a Christian demoninatuon?

Let's see now Keng have I got it all;

1-references to academic expertise but refusal to indicate what it is

2-references to Christian expertise but refusal to indicate that denomination you are a member of

1-narcissism (comments continually denying anyone's feelings but your own)

2-homo-sexual anxiety and feelings homo-sexuals are out to get you and are involved in conspiracies (as demonstrated in numerous posts)

4-mysogeny (demonstrated in comments about women and now your most recent comments)

5-anti-semitism (Jews are hostile to Christians, jews insult Christians, Jews are victimizers, Jews cooperated with the Gestapo, Jews were involved in communist conspiracies)

6-a belief the world is hostile and full of untrue Christians, and others out to persecute you ( as shared in your list of persecutors provided by you included Jews, untrue Christians, communists, liberals and idiots to name but a few)

7-a belief you are superior to others (morally, intellectually, spiritually as repeatedly told to readers in your responses)

8-contempt towards new Canadians (as pretensed in your sweeping comment as to refugees and how you do not see any need to admit them)

10-the belief people go to hell if they don't agree with you (as repeated in numerous comments).

Have I missed anything Keng?

Can't wait to hear about your Christian and academic back-grounds.

Man I love Christmas.

[Rue]

Nazism was largely based on non-Christian philosophies and pseudo-scientific concepts such as social darwinism.

http://web.csustan.edu/History/Faculty/Wei...hitler-evil.htm

One can argue that North America is also "predominantly Christian" on a superficial level because there are a lot of churches around and a Bible is found in most every home--but the fact of the matter is that most people do not live a Christ-like life, rather simply consider themselves Christian in name, understand a little bit about what is written in the Gospels; but otherwise live a largely secular lifestyle.

It's interesting that people put so much onus on the Germans for what they should have been aware of, but know next to nothing about what it must have been like to live in Germany at that time, just how little could have been known given the control of the media.

Earth to Keng calling. No one has stated Nazism is Christianity. You have once again missed the point.

How about you go back to the Oxford Journals you like to quote on Genocide Studies and read what Christian theologians have written. Instead of lecturing about something you don't understand Keng further going off on some bizarre tangent missing the point-how about you come down off the pulpit and take a cold shower.

[Rue]

Here is my Christmas present to Buffy, a list of academic sites to provide her an alternative to Lenni Brenner on the subject she feels Mr. Brenner has presented with veracity.

You will note I provided you a Jewish scholar, a Christian Scholar, and yes even a Japanese scholar all who actually followed the basic rules of protocol academic historians will prescribe to and brenner does not, for example everything they present is foot-noted and referenced.

why Buffy I even gave you the name of a leading German Zionist during world war two and his acrchives so you can see the actual documents. The problem is given you are bamed Buffy not Moishe, I am not sure you peak Hebrew so you may need to have them translated. They have all been verified by non Jews as being authentic and I think you will be quite disappointed to find out Mr. Brenner was not interested in actually reporting what really happened.

Ah Buffy history is so much fun when you go to the library and look up the archives. Actually you can google Brenner and get pictures of him. Not a very good looking man. Of course he has a horrible beard and looks like he has not washed. be careful who you befriend Buffy. Men can have fleas and other gross stuff. Never know what's in his beard. Guys like him tend to give a lot of talks so you know they spit too and it gets stuck in there.

I never trusted Santa for that reason. Men with beards are bad news. Oops I am making sweeping generalizations! Stop that now.

http://wsupress.wayne.edu/judaica/history/lavskybc.htm

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/cata...isbn=052188392X

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/ho...9.3nicosia.html

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...amp;aid=1300584

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2801...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?p...325661163443029

http://www.bodenheimer.org/

http://www.aisisraelstudies.org/2007papers...007_Tsurumi.pdf

[kengs333]

5-anti-semitism (Jews are hostile to Christians, jews insult Christians, Jews are victimizers, Jews cooperated with the Gestapo, Jews were involved in communist conspiracies)

Well, let's see, there are Jews that are hostile to Christianity, always were. Those that weren't usually became Christians because they recognized the truth about Christ. It's also not a big secret that many Jews joined the ranks of socialist and comminist groups, have always been leading proponents of these ideologies. And as for "insult Christans," well, what exactly is it you've been trying to do recently? It's really convenient to paint anything somebody with a differing opinion has as "anti-" something, and you obviously know what the implications are for somebody being branded an "antisemite". The fact that you would resort to this in such an unnecessary and brazen manner is, quite frankly, disgusting, shameful and repugnant.

8-contempt towards new Canadians (as pretensed in your sweeping comment as to refugees and how you do not see any need to admit them)

There's a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants," and my comments about refugees refers to their arrival in large groups.

10-the belief people go to hell if they don't agree with you (as repeated in numerous comments).

That's just the way it is; if that's the truth of the matter as revealed in the Gospels. It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me, rather is the consequence of living a life of sin and not recognizing God as the creator and Jesus as our saviour, sent by God to die for our sins so that we may have an eternal life when we leave this mortal world.

I guess that I'm not supposed to infer anything from your indirectly hostile critiques of the Christian faith, though, as that would just make me an antisemite.

[kengs333]

Earth to Keng calling.

In all seriousness, the only people that I've every heard use "Earth to..." are haughty teenage girls and gay men. Would you care to reveal where you stand in terms of what you are? I've made it quite clear who I am and what I believe in, but I get the sense that you ( and several others) are hiding things that are clearly motivating factors in their ultra-hostile posts.

[DogOnPorch]

Not quite. But I guess one has to be something of an academic to fully appreciate and understand the nature of the debate surrounding his works.

Really? Are BIG words used?

I've made it quite clear who I am and what I believe in, but I get the sense that you ( and several others) are hiding things that are clearly motivating factors in their ultra-hostile posts.

Let's see...you're...you're...ummmmmmmm.... Nope...I have no clue as to who you are.

The fact is Germany - regardless of what the Nazi's believed - was predominantlyu christian and catholic.

I believe you're looking for Christian and Protestant. Many German Catholics didn't do too well under the Nazi boot. Before WW2, Protestants made up 2/3rds of the German population. These days it's about a 50-50 split.

------------------------------------------

National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.

---Reichsleiter Martin Bormann

[guyser]

That's just the way it is; if that's the truth of the matter as revealed in the Gospels. It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me, rather is the consequence of living a life of sin and not recognizing God as the creator and Jesus as our saviour, sent by God to die for our sins so that we may have an eternal life when we leave this mortal world.

Was the book you got this from peer reviewed ? According to you that is important.

Just wondering.

(rue is a teenage girl masquerading as a gay jew man-- now what?)

[kengs333]

I believe you're looking for Christian and Protestant. Many German Catholics didn't do too well under the Nazi boot. Before WW2, Protestants made up 2/3rds of the German population. These days it's about a 50-50 split.

Although the connection between Nazism and Christianity are superficial, it should be noted that Hitler was raised a Catholic, that the Nazis first became significant in the Catholic south, and that the Catholic church fared quite well under the Nazis. The Nazis even supported the creation of a Croatian Catholic puppet regime.

[DogOnPorch]

Although the connection between Nazism and Christianity are superficial, it should be noted that Hitler was raised a Catholic, that the Nazis first became significant in the Catholic south, and that the Catholic church fared quite well under the Nazis. The Nazis even supported the creation of a Croatian Catholic puppet regime.

That's because those in the RC church that spoke up against Nazism were rounded up starting in 1937...the Reichskonkordat didn't mean much to them from inside a concentration camp.

---------------------------------------------

Names and individuals are unimportant when Germany's final fate is at stake.

---Franz von Papen

[Rue]

Yay! Some responses by Keng to me directly now let's see;

"Well, let's see, there are Jews that are hostile to Christianity, always were. "

There we go. There are Jews out there that hate Christians. Why because Keng has pronounced it as so.

"Those that weren't usually became Christians because they recognized the truth about Christ. "

Bingo. Jews are hostile to Christians because we don't believe the truth about Christ. Now of course that's not a hostile statement about Jews by someone claiming to be a follower of Christ. That's just Keng educating the world why Jews are hostile-because we are no believers.

"It's also not a big secret that many Jews joined the ranks of socialist and comminist groups, have always been leading proponents of these ideologies. "

There we go. Another generalization preceded with "its no secret". Not only are Jews hostile to Christians because they are non believers but they are Communists. Of course Keng is calling Jews dirty commies now but skips over the part of they are commies they would be atheists not Jews which completely shreds his arguement, unless of course, the only intent is to smeer. They are Jews in this sense not because of their religious beliefs as they were in the original comment about not believing in Christ, now they are Jews even though they are atheists because even when you do not believe in Judaism, according to Keng you can still be labeled a Jew. And of course Keng once again provides critical analysis to back up his claim-Keng's foot note is......."its no secret" and once again we see....because keng feels it is so, it must be so.

"And as for "insult Christans," well, what exactly is it you've been trying to do recently?"

Yes. I am the one who came on the post and made and continue to make sweeping generalizations about all Christians. Hey you know what keng, I even provided a list of all the untrue Christians out there. Yes it was me. Not you. Yes my responses to you do nothing but make generalizations about Christians.

"It's really convenient to paint anything somebody with a differing opinion has as "anti-" something,"

Somebody? We are talking about you Keng. Interesting you try hide behind the word somebody, as if its not you. That is called dettaching or compartmenalizing oneself Keng. Trying to pretend you are someone other then who you are is kind of silly don't you think? Its not somebody, keng-its you-its your words I am challenging, no one else's.

"and you obviously know what the implications are for somebody being branded an "antisemite". "

There we go. Keng has spoken. Only Keng can decide what is anti-semitic.

"The fact that you would resort to this in such an unnecessary and brazen manner is, quite frankly, disgusting, shameful and repugnant. "

My criticism of your hateful statements which as is evidenced yet again in your above responses to me, have been clear and specific as to what you said and what I am challenging. Now Keng your trying once again to play the victim of an attack is hilarious. The notion you are an innocent man being persecuted is great.

"There's a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants," and my comments about refugees refers to their arrival in large groups."

There's Keng doing the back-peddle. Say Keng Michael Jackson used to do that a lot. Some people believe he's a pedophile. Usher can do it too but he's married now Keng. Now say Keng, as you back-peddle, now you would have us believe you love "refugees" as long as they come in "small groups"?

Hah. I guess your denomination doesn't sponsor refugee groups now does it Keng. Oh wait, you still have not told us what that denomination is.

"That's just the way it is; if that's the truth of the matter as revealed in the Gospels. "

There we go. Didn't take too long for you to begin telling everyone you are divine again.

"It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me, rather is the consequence of living a life of sin and not recognizing God as the creator and Jesus as our saviour, sent by God to die for our sins so that we may have an eternal life when we leave this mortal world. "

So let me get this straight Keng-its not a matter of agreeing with you, but if one does not believe in the Christian religion as you define it, they are sinful but it has nothing to do with agreeing with you. Yes that makes sense. See its not your opinions you state right? when Keng speaks, since its truth, its not a matter of agreeing with Keng, its a matter of agreeing with the drum roll please...truth.

Keng psst over here, your version of truth and what you think must be, that's you Keng. Its your feelings. The fact that you can not differentiate your feelings from anyone else's and believe everyone must have your feelings, is called, narcissism. Yes Keng its possible someone may have a belief or beliefs different then yours and not be a sinner. You Keng live in a world where you are so full of yourself and the belief you are perfect and truthful you can't imagine a world of people who would not think or feel or believe differently then you and that is precisely why you come on this forum. You come to scorn anyone who will not feel and believe and think like you, so of course that list of persecutors against you, that you shared, oh it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and pretty soon Keng well you know what will happen, remember Jim Jones?

"I guess that I'm not supposed to infer anything from your indirectly hostile critiques of the Christian faith, though, as that would just make me an antisemite."

Don't hide behind Christianity Keng. My criticism has been of you and your words not Christianity. You do not speak for or represent the Christian faith. What you speak for and represent is what you feel the Christian faith stands for. Keng your belief you speak on behalf of all Christians went out the toilet when you shared your persecution list. True up until then you could play the Jew card and say I was just a Jew mad at a Christian, but that went out the window when you just could not resist preaching your hatred and tossed in all those other Christian groups.

Anything else dear?

[Rue]

In all seriousness, the only people that I've every heard use "Earth to..." are haughty teenage girls and gay men. Would you care to reveal where you stand in terms of what you are? I've made it quite clear who I am and what I believe in, but I get the sense that you ( and several others) are hiding things that are clearly motivating factors in their ultra-hostile posts.

Say now Keng, you were going to share with us what your Christian denomination was and what your academic training and expertise was....remember?

Now isn't it interesting you suggest people are "hiding things from you". So now we must reveal our gender, and sexual preference when addressing Keng. bSay aren't you the same Keng whor efuses to reveal his Christian denomination and academic standing after he has told everybody repeatedly he is a true Christian and his denomination is the only true Christian sect and of course that you are an academic with historical expertise on the holocaust? Oopsy you did it again Keng. Accuse someone else of the exact thing you engage in.

Geez imagine that Keng.

Now this suspecting people of hiding things because they don't agree with you, gee Keng think that is rational or perhaps just maybe it might be just a tad anti-social and paranoid?

And now that you have broached the subject when will you reveal yourself to the world? Since you keep claiming to be a Christian and a purveyor of truth why do you continue to hide your alleged denomination and church and what the academic expertise is you have and have told everyone makes you superior to everyone?

Hey now Keng I am glad you sppeculate that I am a gay teenage women. You see Keng it establishes a precedent does it not? So now I get to use that exact same form of "reasoning" to assume you could be someone full of rage and sexual conflict who is living a double life and struggles to try repress violent and abusive urges and desperately needs to control and can't when he is with adults so.......

What do you think Keng?

Edited December 13, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

Here are a few historical reference sources in regards to Christianity and its relationship in the Third Reich.

What's interesting is that Christian theologians are pulling no punches in discussing the topic openly and candidly as to what they see were moral failures, and in fact Jewish scholars tend to be more lenient when discussing the issue then Christian scholars. Jewish scholars are more likely to see it as an aberation from Christianity whereas some Christian scholars are more harsh saying while it certainly was not Christian, many Christians did allow their religion to be caught up in hated and Nazism, etc.

The difference between myself and Keng is I quote my reference sources, and I do not make sweeping subjective generalizations of Christians when I discuss this issue and it should suprise no one Keng tries to twist and turn himself first denying any connection to Christianity then trying to make it seem as if it was simply a Catholic phenomena.

He raises the fact that Hitler was a Catholic...just as he does to suggest communists are Jews. Hitler's being born Catholic does not mean as Keng now does, that you simply smeer Catholics because Hitler was born Catholic.

I again urge you to realize Keng's pronouncements on history should sound familiar to you know-anti-gay, anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, anti-woman, anti-liberal, etc. and are probably the reason he doesn't have the integrity to say who he is a member of;

http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/23715...521823715ws.pdf

http://www.adl.org/braun/dim_14_1_role_church.asp

http://www.hearnow.org/id.html

http://www.templeshalom.net/sermons/kahn-nazism-2000.html

http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/church/persecution/

http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetr...ge/protesta.htm

[Sulaco]

Really? Are BIG words used?

Let's see...you're...you're...ummmmmmmm.... Nope...I have no clue as to who you are.

I believe you're looking for Christian and Protestant. Many German Catholics didn't do too well under the Nazi boot. Before WW2, Protestants made up 2/3rds of the German population. These days it's about a 50-50 split.

------------------------------------------

National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.

---Reichsleiter Martin Bormann

I see where the misunderstading is - for irony's sake I was playing Kengs' game. I mean you know he believes that next to satanistic atheists and jews catholics are the enxt worst thing.

My point stands - German society was christian in several varied forms. While the Nazis entertained non-christian theologies, the npeople who fought for them, and murdered for them, were, in the main, christian. Again - I am not arguing this in any way prejudices christianity. Merely pointing out that when Keng attempts to absolve Christians of being human, he is playing a fools game.

But there is another possibility. Kengs may be making n error that should, really be considered heretic. One that is made by some fundamentalis off-shoots. The idea generally appears to be is that you cannto be considered a Christian if you do not live a life in Christ. This is nto actually a works based model of salvation. Rather to be considered a Christian one has to love Christ, but any "misbehavior" shows a lack of love and thus non-Christian status is betrayed. In that view one can pop in an out of being a Christian pretty frequently.

Why is this heretical? Well - the dogmatists of this sort begin confusing what it means to be a Christian with what it means to be Christ. They attempt to rais the status of bbeing Christian, to the status of perfection Christ exemplified. In that they are heretical.

[Oleg Bach]

It's not the "Jews" in control - some of them are but henchmen - go to London and New York and Germany - you will find the culprits that abuse this fledgling nation...go to the source - to those that fund the mayhem. That is where you will find the real terrorists - wearing suits and clean shaven - an aging quite elite...someone should go ask Conrad Black who the real bosses are - after all he control attitude and editorial policy when he held the Jerusalem Post - go figure...sure there are some nasty sell out gangster Jews that work for the big boys - you want to find the terrorists? They are in your own back yard.

[DogOnPorch]

...sure there are some nasty sell out gangster Jews that work for the big boys - you want to find the terrorists? They are in your own back yard.

I took a look in my backyard. Just the neighbor's cat taking a dump. Though some might call that terrorism...

------------------------------------------------

I'd really like to oblige you girls, but this happens to be a matter of National Security!

---Fat Freddy's Cat

[buffycat]

Here is my Christmas present to Buffy, a list of academic sites to provide her an alternative to Lenni Brenner on the subject she feels Mr. Brenner has presented with veracity.

You will note I provided you a Jewish scholar, a Christian Scholar, and yes even a Japanese scholar all who actually followed the basic rules of protocol academic historians will prescribe to and brenner does not, for example everything they present is foot-noted and referenced.

why Buffy I even gave you the name of a leading German Zionist during world war two and his acrchives so you can see the actual documents. The problem is given you are bamed Buffy not Moishe, I am not sure you peak Hebrew so you may need to have them translated. They have all been verified by non Jews as being authentic and I think you will be quite disappointed to find out Mr. Brenner was not interested in actually reporting what really happened.

Ah Buffy history is so much fun when you go to the library and look up the archives. Actually you can google Brenner and get pictures of him. Not a very good looking man. Of course he has a horrible beard and looks like he has not washed. be careful who you befriend Buffy. Men can have fleas and other gross stuff. Never know what's in his beard. Guys like him tend to give a lot of talks so you know they spit too and it gets stuck in there.

I never trusted Santa for that reason. Men with beards are bad news. Oops I am making sweeping generalizations! Stop that now.

http://wsupress.wayne.edu/judaica/history/lavskybc.htm

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/cata...isbn=052188392X

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/ho...9.3nicosia.html

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...amp;aid=1300584

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2801...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?p...325661163443029

http://www.bodenheimer.org/

http://www.aisisraelstudies.org/2007papers...007_Tsurumi.pdf

Shucks Rue, I'll take a looksy - but I don't celebrate Xmas. Winter Solstice perhaps, but Christmas - not really.

Oh, and I am quite well aware of Brenner's 'failings' yet he makes many good points. There was collusion - esp in the beginning as both the WZO and the JA had the SAME goal as the Nazis - to get the Jews out of Europe.

You seem to think that I agree with these methods, I don't - but I will also not turn a blind eye to what I believe is one of the most damaging alliances for Jews in the Diaspora - that being the Zionist cause.

It has turned Israel into an Apartheid state, arguably worse than SA wrt Occupied Palestine. I as a human will not support that, as a Jew I would think you would know better than to support the racist policies of the Israeli Admins as well.

Funny how the abused becomes the abuser eh Rue?????

Happy Channukah Rue, Shalom.

[jbg]

You seem to think that I agree with these methods, I don't - but I will also not turn a blind eye to what I believe is one of the most damaging alliances for Jews in the Diaspora - that being the Zionist cause.

It has turned Israel into an Apartheid state, arguably worse than SA wrt Occupied Palestine. I as a human will not support that, as a Jew I would think you would know better than to support the racist policies of the Israeli Admins as well.

I get it. Every group in the world except for perhaps one of the most significant gets a state? Rwandans, who somehow are different from Burundians, get a state? Or is it one state per thug?

As for SA, there were plenty of white states in the world. There is only one Jewish state. Why is it that many like you seem to have a problem with the Jews having a state?

[kengs333]

the npeople who fought for them, and murdered for them, were, in the main, christian.

I never said that people who considered themselves Christians didn't fight for the Nazis--if you were of age you had to join the military if you were fit do so. Those who didn't went to the camps, many died. Many did fight, but unless you can show me how German soldiers attributed what they were doing as being justified by their Christian belief, then you have no argument. I think you really need to read up on German social history; Germans, especially in larger cities, were quite secular and open to alternative ideologies.

[ScottSA]

As for SA, there were plenty of white states in the world. There is only one Jewish state. Why is it that many like you seem to have a problem with the Jews having a state?

Well, let's back up a bit. First, you have rightly argued numerous times that religion is not a race, yet here you seem to be arguing the opposite.

Second, Rue, for example, and probably you too, would argue strenuously that the west ought not be "white" only, nor "Christian" only, yet at the same time you defend Israel's right to be Jewish only. I happen to agree, but merely because of my Machiavellian observation that the world needs an outpost of civilization in that swamp of Arab Islamic barbarism; not because of some inherent "right."

Third, I know it's hard to ascertain people's motives online, but I think what is sometimes seen as antisemitism can range from angry personal reaction of the moment, to a quest for historical truth (I'm far from convinced, for example, that all holocaust questioners are anti-semitic), to an intellect weak enough to buy into Islamic agitprop, like the gag-me-with-a-spoon-LOL! brigade. And I'm sure there are many other reasons too, that don't involve what would be identified as "anti-semitism." I know, for example, that I'm often tempted to light into Rue's bombastic sarcasm and double standards, but only from a personal distaste of longwinded and largely meaningless diatribe; nothing to do with Judaism.

[jbg]

Well, let's back up a bit. First, you have rightly argued numerous times that religion is not a race, yet here you seem to be arguing the opposite.

Judaism is a bit unique in that it's both a religion and nationality. It is not a race, however.

Second, Rue, for example, and probably you too, would argue strenuously that the west ought not be "white" only, nor "Christian" only, yet at the same time you defend Israel's right to be Jewish only. I happen to agree, but merely because of my Machiavellian observation that the world needs an outpost of civilization in that swamp of Arab Islamic barbarism; not because of some inherent "right."

Another reason is that Judaism's prior reliance on an exclusively Diaspora existence did not work out all that well.

[kengs333]

I get it. Every group in the world except for perhaps one of the most significant gets a state? Rwandans, who somehow are different from Burundians, get a state? Or is it one state per thug?

So if a group inherently has a right to self-determination, then I suppose you would agree then that the Nazis had a legitimate beef in the 1930s when it came to Danzig, the Sudetenland, and other territories that were predominantly German-speaking in eastern Europe?

[kengs333]

Judaism is a bit unique in that it's both a religion and nationality. It is not a race, however.

Right, the Jewish people, or, as the Germans say, Volk.

[jbg]

Right, the Jewish people, or, as the Germans say, Volk.

Godwin's Law?

[jbg]

So if a group inherently has a right to self-determination, then I suppose you would agree then that the Nazis had a legitimate beef in the 1930s when it came to Danzig, the Sudetenland, and other territories that were predominantly German-speaking in eastern Europe?

His initial beefs were colorable but he dropped the pretense to any claim of right after a while. And I resent your belittling of the Jews and comparing them to Nazis.

[kengs333]

His initial beefs were colorable but he dropped the pretense to any claim of right after a while. And I resent your belittling of the Jews and comparing them to Nazis.

I'm not sure what "beefs were colorable" means, or for that matter how it is "belittling the Jews". What I'm suggesting is that if you believe that a group such as the Jews have the inheant right to have land that they believe belongs to them based on some sort of historical basis, then that same reasoning should be extended to other groups as well. Since the Germans has a rightful claim to land that was simply lost due to a war, that land really should have been returned and some other solution sought; hence the rise of Hitler, the war, and all of the other nasty stuff that resulted could have been avoided.