China has refused nine Us Navy Ships entry

[margrace]

According to US Military China has refused nine US Navy Ships and one Air Force Jet entry to Hong Kong in the past month.

[Lazarus]

According to US Military China has refused nine US Navy Ships and one Air Force Jet entry to Hong Kong in the past month.

and your point being?

If I recall correctly, Hong Kong is no longer part of the British Empire and is now part of China. China is a sovereign nation and has the right to decide who's warships and warplanes can enter into her territory. The US has the same right as to who can or cannot enter into theirs. Or are trying to say the both the US Navy and Air Force are special?

[Higgly]

What possible reason would China have for giving a US warship access to Hong Kong harbour?

[bush_cheney2004]

What possible reason would China have for giving a US warship access to Hong Kong harbour?

US warships, including nuclear submarines, have enjoyed port calls at Hong Kong for many years. The only change made in 1997 was that permission must be granted by the People's government, and it has been granted off and on many times since then. After the US/Canada/NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, port call privileges were revoked for a spell.

The most recent Thanksgiving holiday port call refusal was reversed on "humanitarian" reasons, but the Americans had already made way for home port. So the story is unremarkabale save for those searching for the great Sino-American War to come.

Edited December 1, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Higgly]

US warships, including nuclear submarines, have enjoyed port calls at Hong Kong for many years. The only change made in 1997 was that permission must be granted by the People's government, and it has been granted off and on many times since then. After the US/Canada/NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, port call privileges were revoked for a spell.

The most recent Thanksgiving holiday port call refusal was reversed on "humanitarian" reasons, but the Americans had already made way for home port. So the story is unremarkabale save for those searching for the great Sino-American War to come.

I think the important part of this discussion is that, after the expiry of the British Lease on Hong Kong, The Chinese have sovereign rights to the port.

You can sling mud at the Chinese, and I am not going to say that I support everything they do, but this is maritime law. Anybody who might think otherwise needs to review the conditions that lead up to the Hong Kong lease. This is British Imperialism at its nadir.

If I were China, there is no way I would want a US warship in any harbour that belongs to me. The bombing of the Belgrade embassy has only given them an excuse.

Why would anybody grant rights to US warships unless they had some reason to do so?

The tone of your post is that the US has some sort of god-given right to put its warships anywhere it wants. Is that what you are trying to say?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Higgly

[bush_cheney2004]

I think the important part of this discussion is that, after the expiry of the British Lease on Hong Kong, The Chinese have sovereign rights to the port.

You can sling mud at the Chinese, and I am not going to say that I support everything they do, but this is maritime law. Anybody who might think otherwise needs to review the conditions that lead up to the Hong Kong lease. This is British Imperialism at its nadir.

Bullshyte...I didn't sling any "mud" at the Chinese, unless facts now qualify as "mud"

If I were China, there is no way I would want a US warship in any harbour that belongs to me. The bombing of the Belgrade embassy has only given them an excuse.

Why would anybody grant rights to US warships unless they had some reason to do so?

The tone of your post is that the US has some sort of god-given right to put its warships anywhere it wants. Is that what you are trying to say?

Are you daft? I clearly posted that permission must be granted, and was revoked for a time after bombing the Chinese embassy. Such is the nature of diplomacy and punishment.

I enjoyed a HK port call in the 1980's...no big deal. Subic Bay was a lot more fun!

What does this have to do with your "god"?

[Higgly]

I clearly posted that permission must be granted, and was revoked for a time after bombing the Chinese embassy.

Must? How so?

I enjoyed a HK port call in the 1980's...no big deal. Subic Bay was a lot more fun!

What does this have to do with your "god"?

Huh?

[bush_cheney2004]

Must? How so?

Huh?

Sorry, I assumed that you actually read the posts. My bad.....

[Guest American Woman]

Two of the ships turned away were seeking shelter from a storm at sea, so that wasn't cool. There's speculation that all of the ships were turned away because of arms deals with Taiwan and Congress giving a medal to the Dalai Lama. The refusal was unusual according to what I've read, especially in that no reason was given. Docking in Hong Kong for Thanksgiving had been planned months in advance and hundreds of the troops' family members had flown to Hong Kong for the holiday.

Edited December 1, 2007 by American Woman

[Higgly]

Sorry, I assumed that you actually read the posts. My bad.....

I did. What grounds do you have for saying US warships must be granted access to Hong Kong harbour?

[Guest American Woman]

I did. What grounds do you have for saying US warships must be granted access to Hong Kong harbour?

You're obviously misreading his post. He's not saying China must grant permission as in China is obligated to grant permission, he's saying permission has to have been granted in order for the ships to enter/dock. In other words, we must ask and permission must have been granted in order for us to enter the harbor.

Edited December 1, 2007 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I did. What grounds do you have for saying US warships must be granted access to Hong Kong harbour?

People's Daily wire copy and several years experience as an operations officer in the US Navy..

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/...0817_77530.html

[Higgly]

You're obviously misreading his post. He's not saying China must grant permission as in China is obligated to grant permission, he's saying permission has to have been granted in order for the ships to enter/dock. In other words, we must ask and permission must have been granted in order for us to enter the harbor.

Under maritime law permission must be granted only under mayday conditions. Was every single one of these ships sinking?

[Guest American Woman]

Under maritime law permission must be granted only under mayday conditions. Was every single one of these ships sinking?

I give up. You're either having a real problem comprehending what's being said or you're deliberately being obtuse.

[Higgly]

I give up. You're either having a real problem comprehending what's being said or you're deliberately being obtuse.

You're right. I am having a problem comprehending what's being said. Why don't you explain it to me? Why would China grant access to Hong Kong harbour for 9 US warships?

This is not a right, but a priviledge. Why don't you tell me in simple terms what the problem is?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Higgly

[DogOnPorch]

Why would China grant access to Hong Kong harbour for 9 US warships?

Because US sailors spend a lot of money?

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Now imagine me in the Maginot Line

Sitting on a mine in the Maginot Line

Now it's turned out nice again

The Army life is fine

At night, myself to sleep I sing

To my old tin hat I cling

I have to use it now for everything

Down on the Maginot Line.

---George Formby

[Higgly]

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Mild, isn't it?

[ScottSA]

I wonder if there's a cure for passive aggressive little trolls? No names mentioned, of course. No insult intended, of course.

[Higgly]

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Did somebody fart?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Higgly

[Wilber]

You're right. I am having a problem comprehending what's being said. Why don't you explain it to me? Why would China grant access to Hong Kong harbour for 9 US warships?

This is not a right, but a priviledge. Why don't you tell me in simple terms what the problem is?

Are you deliberately being thick or does it come naturally? Why is it you are the only one who doesn't understand?

[xul]

The refusal was unusual according to what I've read, especially in that no reason was given. Docking in Hong Kong for Thanksgiving had been planned months in advance and hundreds of the troops' family members had flown to Hong Kong for the holiday.

I don't think that "no reason was given" is unusual. Usually governments do not give the reason or the real reason when they play those political or diplomatic games.

But the event is realy unusual because there were a lot of familie numbers of sailors had flown to Hong Kong to meet their families. It is obvious that some American navy officers believed the carrier would be granted to visit Hong Kong.

I think those troop families are the victims of bureaucratism of government officials. I guess the pentagon officials were fully aware that the carrier would be refused but they had just neglected its influence to those sailor families because informing those families to Hong Kong is not their job. I guess it's the job of a lieutenant commander or an ensign in fleet and the junior officer of course did not know what games the politicians or generals were playing so he sent out the information to those families. And when the refusal was known by fleet, someone must find the problem. So the fleet informed pantagon, and pantagon informed United State Department of state, and then they informed China embassador, and the embassador informed Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, and who know whom the Ministry of Foreign Affairs would inform.....these bureaucratism processes spent 24 hours to make a decision and the carrier might move across 800 sea miles nearly reached Japan during this time and left behind those bureaucratists buckpassing each other....

Edited December 1, 2007 by xul

[DogOnPorch]

I wonder if there's a cure for passive aggressive little trolls? No names mentioned, of course. No insult intended, of course.

Smeered in peanut butter then introduced to a flock of pigeons?

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I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

But seriously...US sailors dump a lot of raw dollars into a given local economy when they are given liberty. Most cities view this as a 'good thing'.

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A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all f**kin' night.

---Nicky Santoro: Casino

[Guest American Woman]

I don't think that "no reason was given" is unusual. Usually governments do not give the reason or the real reason when they play those political or diplomatic games.

But the event is realy unusual because there were a lot of familie numbers of sailors had flown to Hong Kong to meet their families. It is obvious that some American navy officers believed the carrier would be granted to visit Hong Kong.

It seems China did give a reason. At least according to this article in the NYT.

BEIJING, Nov. 29 — China denied permission for a United States aircraft carrier battle group and other American warships to visit Hong Kong last week because of the Bush administration’s proposal to sell upgrades to Patriot antimissile batteries to Taiwan, Chinese state media said today.

Days before the Kitty Hawk was turned away, China refused permission for two United States Navy minesweepers to shelter in Hong Kong’s harbor during a storm and to take on supplies. The ships were later refueled at sea, the Navy said.

The Pentagon lodged a formal protest Wednesday with the Chinese government after senior United States naval commanders said they were particularly troubled by the unexplained decision to deny refuge to the minesweepers.

Hong Kong has been a favorite rest and recreation stop for the American Navy but, since the city reverted to Chinese rule in 1997, Beijing has suspended port calls when it wanted to send messages of protest to Washington over American actions.

I don't think this made China look good.

[M.Dancer]

I did. What grounds do you have for saying US warships must be granted access to Hong Kong harbour?

It must be granted...ie It must have permission or it can't dock.........must you ask silly questions?

[Topaz]

I give up. You're either having a real problem comprehending what's being said or you're deliberately being obtuse.

Understanding loud and clear and its important that the US military understand loud and clear that there's no room for you here now or ever!! I doubt China will be the only country to not allow a US ship in its port. Makes one wonder how the Olympics are going to ended up!!!