Superiour White People - ?

[Oleg Bach]

Of course this is probably not the correct forum to ask this question - but I have seen reference here to white supremacy. Is this site top heavey in this area? Or is it just the odd member that accuses the other odd member of being a white elitist? Hope that there is balance here. It's not a bad thing to remain loyal to ones own extended tribe or family - but to be overly loyal to ones own clan may not really fit into the creation of a truely evolved nation. Just wondering seeing that you are based out of Alberta...I do like the idea of a provical state that takes care of family first though - but does in depend on anglo heritage to be accepted fully? Just wondering - I know you are a bright group here and I don't want to insult of offend - but - could it be possible that things may be a tad exclutionary here...I am actually a very black person - on the inside...am I still welcome?

[jefferiah]

Of course this is probably not the correct forum to ask this question - but I have seen reference here to white supremacy. Is this site top heavey in this area? Or is it just the odd member that accuses the other odd member of being a white elitist? Hope that there is balance here. It's not a

If you don't agree with certain people that makes you a white supremacist didn't you know.

[noahbody]

To my observation, there might be one, but he doesn't push his agenda. If you take a look, most of the racial threads are started by the same person, who's a native supremest. Disagree with her and you'll be a white supremest too. I assume she'll be booted soon by Charles who will then also become a white supremest.

Your comment about Alberta more than a little off base. Ever been here?

[DrGreenthumb]

Alberta's not that bad I lived there for a few years. As for the white supremecists, I've seen at least one poster I'd put in thAT category. You can tell right away the way he starts ranting about immigration and blaming all Canadas problems on immigrants. I even read one thread, I think in the police brutality/taser forum, where this member says he prefers eastern european immigrants over the "other world trash".. I'm not going to name the person, but its the same racist ignorant twit that thinks only english speaking people should be allowed into Canada, a country that prides itself on its multicultural diversity and has TWO official languages.

[Borg]

Yup - if you do not like or agree with someone it is easy to launch the racial tag.

Funny thing is - it seems that only those with white skin can be legitimately called racist or supremists in Canada. I have often wondered why, seeing as how I have seen it in reverse many times in many parts of the world - including this country called Canada.

Sigh .....

Highly over used terms.

Only in Canada.

Now ......

Dr. GreenThumb - I can tell you that there are huge numbers of folks who do not stand with pride at Canada's multicultural diversity and two languages. In fact many despise it as a waste of time, effort and money - and are seriously concerned at potential security issues it has caused.

I suspect within my life time there will be some serious upheavals over the one way street this is delivered. Imagine a whites only school. An English only medical centre. A Christians only university.

All would and have come under attack while the exact opposites are flourishing with government, media and left leaning organizations heavily supporting through money, legal advice, media announcements and so on.

Who is becoming the disadvantaged?

Perhaps you would be willing to show me the pride expressed by kebekers on this issue? They are 28 or more percent of the population. Plus 51% of Canadians as a whole (reported on a news article related here on this site) would disagree.

Perhaps you are the person out of step?

While you are not alone in your thoughts, the numbers are swaying the other way as demonstrated and illustrated by the many polls and news reports discussed here on that same topic.

Then perhaps you could explain why other countries such as Australia, the U.K., France, Germany and Holland have begun reversing their ideas and attitudes?

In the end we have been importing trouble from many parts of the world, using tolerance and your "proud" ideals as examples to the world. But the world is changing. Canada needs to be vigilant or it will become yet another racially charged and very intolerant country within the next two generations.

And finally .....

Oleg - I think you need to get out more. Your rose coloured glasses have fogged over.

I generally take folks on face value - but you are one who has suddenly made me sit up and ask - are you really welcome? Only you can answer that one.

Quote - It's not a bad thing to remain loyal to ones own extended tribe or family - but to be overly loyal to ones own clan may not really fit into the creation of a truely evolved nation. - end quote

Could not agree more.

Unfortunately we encourage this tribal loyalty to excess. It simply shows why so many are worried about the future - because of the trouble we continue to import. Canadians are programmed to tolerate - even while importing the intolerant.

Tribe before flag. Seen it before and it grows even stronger in Canada.

To stand up and complain about it causes people from the left to complain. It causes people from the import nations to complain. And it causes the right wing to be called names.

All in the name of tolerance?

So tell me, are you welcome?

All I can say at this time after reading your "pointing finger" is - perhaps.

Borg

Edited November 23, 2007 by Borg

[guyser]

Dr. GreenThumb - I can tell you that there are huge numbers of folks who do not stand with pride at Canada's multicultural diversity and two languages. In fact many despise it as a waste of time, effort and money - and are seriously concerned at potential security issues it has caused.

Security issues it has caused? Like..er what?

I suspect within my life time there will be some serious upheavals over the one way street this is delivered. Imagine a whites only school. An English only medical centre. A Christians only university.

You are living in that period right now or have you not noticed?

Who is becoming the disadvantaged?

Yes , please tell us who is ?

[jennie]

Of course this is probably not the correct forum to ask this question - but I have seen reference here to white supremacy. Is this site top heavey in this area? Or is it just the odd member that accuses the other odd member of being a white elitist? Hope that there is balance here. It's not a bad thing to remain loyal to ones own extended tribe or family - but to be overly loyal to ones own clan may not really fit into the creation of a truely evolved nation. Just wondering seeing that you are based out of Alberta...I do like the idea of a provical state that takes care of family first though - but does in depend on anglo heritage to be accepted fully? Just wondering - I know you are a bright group here and I don't want to insult of offend - but - could it be possible that things may be a tad exclutionary here...I am actually a very black person - on the inside...am I still welcome?

Coming from you, this is quite a joke, oleg. Have you deleted your racist rant yet as I asked you to? :rolleyes:

[sharkman]

Oleg seems confused as well saying he is black on the inside, whatever the hell that means...

[noahbody]

Oleg seems confused as well saying he is black on the inside, whatever the hell that means...

I think that means he can dance.

[sideshow]

I don't think that there are anymore white supremacists on this site then there are native supremacists, black supremacists, etc. People have views, and when someone does not believe in the politically correct mantra of forced immigration (regardless of country of origin), multiculturalism, multilinguilism, lets all just hold hands, blame the rich, blame the state, marry a goat and smoke weed till we puke, they are labelled a racist, an elitist, etc.

I think its perfectly fine for me to vote NDP because of their social conscience, agree with the Conservatives law and order agenda, agree with the liberals decriminalizing marihuana, and pro homosexual marriage, and not mind paying high taxes, yet not agree with FORCED multiculturalism, irresponsible immigration, welfare handouts, and still support our Police, Military, and yet oppose the war for oil in Iraq. I support Unions, I oppose Quebec (or Alberta) separation, I support the Canada Pension Plan and Employment Insurance, I oppose the majority of welfare.

I don't need to fit into the small minded box that so many partisan people are stuck in. Get a job, be responsible for yourself, take care of your kids, mind your health, and get a life. Too many people are whiners and criers and don't want to take responsibility for themselves or those they are in charge of (children).

[Guest coot]

I believe it's a white supremacist majority, but a thin-skinned one that has made it against the rules to even mention them.

[Moxie]

Borg wrote: Dr. GreenThumb - I can tell you that there are huge numbers of folks who do not stand with pride at Canada's multicultural diversity and two languages. In fact many despise it as a waste of time, effort and money - and are seriously concerned at potential security issues it has caused.

I suspect within my life time there will be some serious upheavals over the one way street this is delivered. Imagine a whites only school. An English only medical centre. A Christians only university.

All would and have come under attack while the exact opposites are flourishing with government, media and left leaning organizations heavily supporting through money, legal advice, media announcements and so on.

Who is becoming the disadvantaged?

Who is becoming the disadvantaged? The majority as we are forced to pay for minority life styles and culture, it's the new thanggggggggggggggggg. If we don't we are racists bigots.

Yes it's okay to have French only Schools, Medical Centers, etc but dear god don't let them their white Canadians get uppity. Its okay to write songs that call white women hoes but if I were to write a song stating "ALL" black women were hoes (they aren't) I'd have me arse hauled before the Human Rights Commision asap. Sadly it's us who have to pay for all this propaganda regarding the "Evil whiteman" and how he's holding the minorities down. It was the liberal left that engineered new immigrants into gettos and religious enclaves not us Facist Conservatives. Great plan though, socially engineer a group to a small area and get the vote for a lifetime.

Bravo Sideshow, I high five you.

I'm beinging to think Olga and Jenny are working together to paint this forum as a Racist Forum, why? First he states this a fine forum and they he accuses us of being "White Supremacist" without a link to any posts or without him/her doing any achival reading. A little less accusations and a little more evidence is in order.

[Posit]

There is an on-going argument in the greater community that suggests that it is necessary to temporarily advantage minorities in order to dislodge the troglodytes that have held minorities hostage against equal opportunities and equal advancement. That is why minority quotas have been implemented in government and why during pay equity exercises men were held to a current rate while women we instantly raised. It is somewhat of a rubberband effect in that the effects of affirmative action are stretch to an extreme limit but over time as minorities are integrated into what were once WASP male domain, they will return to a reasonable set of policies offering equal treatment of all peoples.

As far as native people go (which seems to be targets of many and the topics of much discussion) we haven't even begun to see the initial stretching of those rubber bands. Yet we hear about most often because the momentum of equal rights is being raised by native people themselves (along with many mainstream citizens) who no longer are willing to accept the oppressive and genocidal policies that have held them back in the past. Plus as Canadians we have begun to unravel the myths told to us by government and educators about the exact treatment of native people in the past. Gawd, we still have a Prime Minister who refuses to apologize, and while he has announced he will offer an apology at some point, it is nothing less than an election ploy and lacks the sincerity that would normally from from a voluntary admission of guilt and shame. And no doubt IF he apologizes before the next election, it will be a press event of little substance but full of sound bites that get attention.

There are many troglodyte attitudes on this discussion forum and hopefully as more people become educated of the facts and true history of our interaction with native people and other minorities they can be shouted down in unison and return to those dark places from whence they came. perhaps even with further discussion we'll be able to convince them to return to the Ozarks where they can be at relative peace with wives and daughters that are often the same people.....

[guyser]

With the exception of the barb at the end, and of course the dumb inclusion of a smiley face which is used around here as a taunt, on the whole I have to agree with you.

However, -3pts for the inclusion.

[sideshow]

Just a question. You don't think that a hundred years of payments is enough? I would be in favour of a lump sum payment and cutting the cord, but to be honest, the money would just go to a few rich chiefs and their families and would do nothing for the people that need it.

The big problem I have is the cradle to grave people on welfare. If you can't support yourself because you simply will not go to work, you should not be having children and having someone else support them cradle to grave as well. The cycle has to stop.

[Posit]

Just a question. You don't think that a hundred years of payments is enough? I would be in favour of a lump sum payment and cutting the cord, but to be honest, the money would just go to a few rich chiefs and their families and would do nothing for the people that need it.

The big problem I have is the cradle to grave people on welfare. If you can't support yourself because you simply will not go to work, you should not be having children and having someone else support them cradle to grave as well. The cycle has to stop.

Canada has a fiduciary duty towards native people. Welfare, health care and education became a responsibility when the government created the reserve system and used genocide policies against them.

The reality is, we can't afford a "lump sum" payment because it would break the treasury. Government refuses to proceed under court process because they fear exactly that - that the courts will order large awards to First Nations. The more court cases that come up the more liability we would experience. They also keep lands claims negotiations quiet (as well as lengthy) because they try to keep public opinion in line with the propaganda they spin about it.

Perhaps if the government found a way to solve the welfare and unemployment problem in our society we could garner the respect to be able to suggest how they might help themselves. However, as long as corruption thrives in our government, and we impose that corruption on native people through the band governance model under the Indian Act, there will be the same corruption in First Nations communities as there is modeled in ours.

[jefferiah]

I believe it's a white supremacist majority, but a thin-skinned one that has made it against the rules to even mention them.

Now could you please provide me some links to the posts of this majority where they say that the white race is superior?

[Rue]

Oleg seems confused as well saying he is black on the inside, whatever the hell that means...

Cancer? Tar from cigarettes? Bacterial infection? Gangrene? Say Shark if I am not mistaken the human body's organs come in all colours BUT never black unless diseased or decayed and I have been told the liver is not really black but a tinge of dark blue to grey.

Also I think people's skin colour should be referred to as ice cream flavours to assure greater accuracy. For example black people are brown. Even when they are really black they are more like eggplant. So I say we should call black or brown peoples eggplant or caramel or chocolate or coffeee and white people bubblegum or strawberry or vanilla or cocanut or when we have hangovers or have not been out in the daylight pistachio or mint and if we have oxygen problems blueberry. Asian people should be called butterscotch or mango or lemon.

I am leaning with heavenly hash for aborginals since it has all kinds of shades and I will go with neopolitan for gays as its the closet thing for a rainbow in ice cream flavours.

This way no one is offended and the point is everyone should be eaten at least once.

I was told this by my favourite French teacher and he always had a lot of girlfriends. Then again he smoked Gitanes cigarettes so I am sure he was black inside.

[Moxie]

Canada has a fiduciary duty towards native people. Welfare, health care and education became a responsibility when the government created the reserve system and used genocide policies against them.

The reality is, we can't afford a "lump sum" payment because it would break the treasury. Government refuses to proceed under court process because they fear exactly that - that the courts will order large awards to First Nations. The more court cases that come up the more liability we would experience. They also keep lands claims negotiations quiet (as well as lengthy) because they try to keep public opinion in line with the propaganda they spin about it.

Perhaps if the government found a way to solve the welfare and unemployment problem in our society we could garner the respect to be able to suggest how they might help themselves. However, as long as corruption thrives in our government, and we impose that corruption on native people through the band governance model under the Indian Act, there will be the same corruption in First Nations communities as there is modeled in ours.

I concur Postit, however the Feds have given control of the reserves to local bands. Reserve Police forces, Native Social Services instead of things improving they are worse. Native Children placed in foster homes (usually their grandmother's home) where six or eight children live in squaller. One mattress on the floor and cardboard walls. We gave them control of their lives and they aren't doing the job any better than we did. We need to work together, not isolate each other but work together to protect these children from the never ending cycle of Social Experiments. To date neither system has worked, government leadership and control or Native leadership. It's time to consider the children as a priority not their Culture but their little lives of systematic poverty and dispair. Throwing money at the problems of chronic alcoholism, substance abuse and domestic abuse hasn't worked. The "Native Culture" needs to change, they can't sustain themselves off the land anymore nor have they attempted to live by the old ways for decades. Hunting, fishing and logging and trapping are from a past era and it can't be revived. It's time for the Natives to move into the 21st century and become part of Canadian Society while celabrating their culture and traditions. My ancestors raided neighbouring clans for wives, it's not part of our culture or traditions anymore nor it should be.

There are many successful Reservations, it's not all bleak and misery for Natives. The reservations that are wallowing in poverty are in remote communties and the natives refuse to amend their lifestyles desperatly clining to their ole ways but they are gone. It's time for change, from both sides.

[kengs333]

Canada has a fiduciary duty towards native people. Welfare, health care and education became a responsibility when the government created the reserve system and used genocide policies against them.

No, they created the reserve system when they realized that the initial belief that Indians would naturally want to adopt a better way of life and become good Christians wasn't going to happen, and something had to be done to protect them from people who would take advantage of them. Genocide, you say? Well, if they really wanted to accomplish that they could hve long ago. Fact of the matter is that had the government not stepped in, there probably wouldn't be all that many Indians left. There certainly wouldn't be a Six Nations, that's for sure, the way the chiefs were selling of to fuel their addictions...

[kengs333]

There are many successful Reservations, it's not all bleak and misery for Natives. The reservations that are wallowing in poverty are in remote communties and the natives refuse to amend their lifestyles desperatly clining to their ole ways but they are gone. It's time for change, from both sides.

If anything, Six Nations should be the most successful of them all, given where it is situated; but like you say, there still seem to be some people who living in the past and are deluding others with their nonsense.

[Posit]

I concur Postit, however the Feds have given control of the reserves to local bands. Reserve Police forces, Native Social Services instead of things improving they are worse. Native Children placed in foster homes (usually their grandmother's home) where six or eight children live in squaller. One mattress on the floor and cardboard walls. We gave them control of their lives and they aren't doing the job any better than we did. We need to work together, not isolate each other but work together to protect these children from the never ending cycle of Social Experiments. To date neither system has worked, government leadership and control or Native leadership. It's time to consider the children as a priority not their Culture but their little lives of systematic poverty and dispair. Throwing money at the problems of chronic alcoholism, substance abuse and domestic abuse hasn't worked. The "Native Culture" needs to change, they can't sustain themselves off the land anymore nor have they attempted to live by the old ways for decades. Hunting, fishing and logging and trapping are from a past era and it can't be revived. It's time for the Natives to move into the 21st century and become part of Canadian Society while celabrating their culture and traditions. My ancestors raided neighbouring clans for wives, it's not part of our culture or traditions anymore nor it should be.

There are many successful Reservations, it's not all bleak and misery for Natives. The reservations that are wallowing in poverty are in remote communties and the natives refuse to amend their lifestyles desperatly clining to their ole ways but they are gone. It's time for change, from both sides.

...however the Feds have given control of the reserves to local bands.

Actually, they haven't. The Band governments are controlled through funding and most reserves are perpetually underfunded. Band control of the schools has only been an option the last 8 or so years. However, INAC only funds native schools at about 1/10 to 1/5 of the same non-native schools. In a moment Bands can be seize and put under third party management without input or concurrence from any band member.

Reserve Police forces....

Very few reserves have autonomous police forces that are under the funding control of the bands. In Ontario most of the reserves have police that are trained, funded and supervised by the OPP. In other parts of Canada, the RCMP totally police the reserves, sometimes with aboriginal officers, but full RCMP none the less. The RCMP also have a policy of keeping aboriginal officers away from their home reserves, so even though the officers patrolling the reserve are aboriginal, they often have cultural differences that make it difficult to understand each other.

Native Children placed in foster homes (usually their grandmother's home)....

Rarely are native children placed in family homes for care. If a child does end up in a family member's home it is because the family has intervened long before the Children's Aid Society has entered the picture. However, once the CAS does come in, children are most often placed off the reserves, sometimes in far away towns and villages and many times in non-native culturally detached families. Chief Fountaine last spring mentioned that there are now more native children in foster care than all the children that went through the residential school system. That in itself indicates to me that government-sanction genocide is still taking place, using different methods but with the same goals.

We gave them control of their lives....

That is a paternalistic statement that is far from the truth. In reality we have controlled their lives and continue to insist (just listen to some of the ignorant rants on this forum) that we know what is best for them. We control almost every aspect of their life - even on reserve - by creating funding shortfalls, education lotteries, and even making sure that their drinking water stays contaminated in the hopes they will move from their remote communities and get out of the way of resource developers. At Kasetchewan, the government installed a sewage treatment plant 10 years ago that was upstream of the water intake pipes despite being warned of the possible contamination. Last year when they had to be evacuated, the suggestion was to move them to Timmins and let them integrate into a more urban culture. However, what the government hasn't been honest about is that DeBeers is intending to file a claim about a mile from their village in the heart of their hunting territory to mine diamonds. Interesting to say the least but THAT was not a coincidence.

We need to work together, not isolate each other but work together to protect these children from the never ending cycle of Social Experiments.

While noble, your suggestion would create yet another social experiment. The high incidents of alcoholism, substance abuse, child and spousal abuse, poverty and unemployment are not the causes of their issues. They are merely symptoms - most of which can be directly traced back to the residential school experience; the loss of family, community, culture and language. It has been suggested that the government spent about $800 million on residential schools and their target of "taking the Indian out of the child." IMO they have a responsibility to put at least the same amount of money in 2008 dollars back into a system that helps restore these things. The Kelowna Accord woutl have started that process but eh Conservatives are more interested in maintaining genocide than they are of finding solutions. Yet their limit seems to be confined to the $3000 per year residential school common experience buy-out...totally unacceptable IMV. It they want to help, then funding must be provided to let First Nations find their own solutions to the common experience. There is no "one size fits all" and no mainstream model that can help FN out of the rut they are in. Recovery in any "ism" is the property of the individual - they must make a decision to stop their behaviors, ask for help and realize they are helpless over their addictions. Once they hit their bottom then the government has a duty - a fiduciary duty - to provide the funding for full recovery, whether that means paying for full time support groups, treatment centres or traditional healing sessions. That is the only path to recovery that we can offer. Anything more constitutes interference and anything less perpetuates the genocide.

The "Native Culture" needs to change......

There are only two ways to change culture. Genocide or assimilation. Both have been tried. Both are crimes against humanity. And both failed. Culture cannot be changed. By the same token our society is filled with a culture of entitlement, a culture of superiority and a culture of violence. These things clash with native culture. The only thing we can do for now (at least until there is a revolution against the corporations that promote and protect our cultural icons) is to accept their culture, support it to the degree that we have a responsibility to, and provide them the freedom to operate in parallel to us. That could mean sovereign self government. It could me family based communities and systems within the framework of a third tier of Canadian governance and it could be willful assimilation into the mainstream while retaining cultural centres. However, none of the solutions are up to us. We must let them decide and then provide the funding, settle the land claims and protect their aboriginal rights with every resource at our disposal.

One of the key points that gives natives power in today's world is money - through economic development. The ED must include royalties, employment and community improvements as a result of resource extraction on their lands. Currently many reserves are benefiting from the tobacco sales, which is producing millions of dollars a year in ED to the community. And those involved in tobacco trade are fully aware of the ED sustainability by reinvesting their profits back into the community in the form of new and innovative businesses, local employment and support for many of the community social systems that have always been underfunded. That power scares government as they sick the RCMP after the tobacco sellers and manufacturers, citing lost revenue, contaminated tobacco and contraband sales. Yet they routinely stop vehicles on numerous highways, confiscate shipments destined for other reserves and impound their vehicles they rarely follow up with substantial charges fearing the courts will rule against them. The RCMP claim their authority comes from laws that allow them to use extraneous measures to counter gang crime. Yet the majority of people operating the tobacco shops are ma and pa operations. The RCMP know this but are breaking the law anyway and hiding behind obscurity to interrupt native economic development because they realize that with all that money and control over their lives, native people are beginning to stand up and question the government on their continuing attempts at genocide and oppression (like Shawn Brant did in the spring and summer of 2007). The charges are bogus and yet no one has the authority to tell the RCMP to stop breaking the law.

Change can only come within and in a democratic society one cannot impose change on another. If that change is going to happen to either us or the natives, then we must first eliminate corruption from our own political systems, demand that the police stop abusing the law and issue ultimatums to racists and white supremacist that their ignorance and hate will not be tolerated. We must get control of the corporations that continue to destroy land and people's livelihoods all for the interest of the investor. We must force the protection of our environment, prosecuting anyone in abeyance to the full extent of the law. We must stop urban sprawl and raise as much concern for farmers and our food and water sources as we do for the stock market evaluation of the rising Canadian dollar. Only then, when we have become models of an ideal society can we ask someone to joins us.

[ScottSA]

Hint to the initiator of this thread: "Superiour" is spelled without the "u." Just because one is a Canadian doesn't mean that "u"s have to be appended to every word out there. One can hardly claim superiority if one can't spell the thing.

Second hint: There are several words bandied about hereabouts that mean different things. One can believe that multiracial immigration is a very bad thing when it is practised in the floodgate immigration-for-the-sake-of-immigration manner practised today in Canada. That in no way suggests that one thinks caucasians are "superior; just that Caucasians ought not become minorities in one's own country. I am one of those.

There are also those who believe that western civilization and all its attributes are superior to 6th century dark age pathologies, caste based mythologies, and stone age tribalism. I'm one of those too, but that involves a belief in cultural superiority, not racial superiority.

The only folks who believe in white superiority are those who are not white, and that is a belief that extends from southern Africa through northern Japan. Whitening one's bloodline is a millenia old practice all over the globe, and has nothing whatsoever to do with a bunch of asses in bedsheets commiting idiocy in the night. Nor, contrary to current mythology, does it have anything to do with "colonialism."

But lets back up and work on spelling issues before we get into the complicated stuff.

Edited November 25, 2007 by ScottSA

[jbg]

I'm not going to name the person, but its the same racist ignorant twit that thinks only english speaking people should be allowed into Canada, a country that prides itself on its multicultural diversity and has TWO official languages.

What's bigoted about enforcing Canada's requirement that any immigrant speak one of Canada's three official languages in order to come?

[guyser]

What's bigoted about enforcing Canada's requirement that any immigrant speak one of Canada's three official languages in order to come?

Its not enforced because it is not a requirement.