GostHacked

I SECOND THAT !!! 3rd'd BD you are a voice of reason around here for the most part. Some stuff I may not agree with but on major topics we are on the same level. If you leave now, I will get swamped by some members here. ONE THING that really pisses me off here is the mud slinging, name calling and such, THIS must stop if we are to maintain any kind of civility in this forum. Please, all of you, refrain from this and let's talk politics, not garbage mud slinging. And yes I am myself guilty of this. I am trying my best not to get personal.

This looks interesting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4828134.stm I wonder if these guys were tortured in any way shape or form. And if you happened to be one of the actors in this movie (so it may look mostly like re-enactment, and may be biased, who knows.. ) .....

I don't read conservative rags Monty. I read responsible and impartial journalism. Nice try tho. Why bother reading anything other than your viewpoint? I mean, it might cause you to think, which would be dangerous. I am reading it right now, and it looks like they did not want the Americans knowing about their ties and HOWEVER Did they find them in Iraq or Afghanistan? So again, no real solid evidence. The only attacks I see mentioned in this article are those of what happened in the Phillipenes. Interesting article indeed. Sheds some light on the right's side. But even the FBI is admitting that the intelligence is speculative at best. Looks like the dots that the right connect arre more valuble that the dot connecting of those from the left.

Why is Carlson not at CNN anymore? The little pundit got owned by a satiricle news show host. Carlson tucker'd his tail between his legs and in shame left for another network. THAT is why no one watches him. He did not garner any respect from the incident.

So why do they have Special Ops guys in the US? They wear uniforms AND sneak around, but nothing you would recognize as standard military issue. And the terrorists do wear uniforms, pants, shirt, towel on head. And most of them are wearing the same colours.

OMG MONTY!!! Look at this, a (i am guessing) right winger dropping a link that really says nothing to prove his point. I told you the left was not the only people who use that tactic. Not once do I see 'U.S.' or America or American in that article. This article can be disregarded. Unless the 'Americas' hyperlink at the bottom is what you are looking at. Saddam may have supported terrorism, but none seemed to be aimed at the US, and Saddam again ONCE again, had nothing to do with 9/11.

Thanks for posting that newbie!! http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Bush-9-11.wmv So was he lying then? Or lying now? All that he needs now is a cuban cigar and an intern. FLIP FLOPPIN LIKE KERRY!!!! This is your CIC!!! And I do not think within his speeches he directly linked the two. For example : "Terrorists flew planes into the WTC. Saddam harbours terrorists." So no direct link, we should all take a look at those speeches again. I think you will find the above more or less. But it is the way the speech was written to give that false impression in eveyones mind that Saddam DID have something to do with 9/11. Watch out for those speech writers, they are smarter than Bush.

Has anyone else been keeping their eye on this trial at all? I have been reading it off and on, but never really payed that close attention to it before. I watched the clip over at CBS News.com today about the trial. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/20/...in1420483.shtml I guess in retrospect, yes all the evidence we had about the attacks, we could have prevented. I am going to read more about this. I think this is a really important case we should pay attention to. It is clear the man is behind bars for the rest of his life now. No doubts about that. Now they are to find out what degree of guilt he has. Death penalty looks like it has been ruled out now. If he had anything really to do with the co-ordination of the 9/11 attacks, I really would not mind seeing him fry. But that is now for the jury to decide. And what a tough job it would be on the jury. Already, I would say, being biased towards him due to what happened to the American psyche that day. Most of them would want to see him fry as well. I am guessing, but that is a feeling I get. I misspelled 'only' in the title, proof read gh proof read. hahah

hmmmm. thinking....thinking.......ummm - YES! you're right! George W. Bush, former owner of the Texas Rangers baseball franchise, and Dick Cheney, fomer president & CEO of Halliburton, and their friends hatched a brilliant scheme to blow up the two most recognized american buildings and kill thousands of innocent americans. Meanwhile the nutjob militant islamists who continue to self-detonate on an almost nightly basis even today are actually the PAWNS in the American scheme to kill innocent jews and americans. Sounds plausible to me Two documentaries I suggest you check out. The Power of Nightmares - BBC Documentarist Adam Curtis http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430484/ and Loose Change 2nd Edition. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...&q=loose+change Watch them first in full before you make a comment or desicion on these two articles. Alot you can shrug off yes, but there are some things in there that will make you go hmmm.

Its an admirable thing to search for the truth GostHacked. Be as critical of the conspiracy theory as you are the topic of investigation otherwise you could find yourself far from the path that will lead to anything resembling the truth. If there is a university with an engineering program near you drop in and see if you could talk to a prof or 3rd/4th year student about the issues which you find suspicious. Go into your local fire hall and talk to a fireman/woman about fire, or e-mail ASTM (American Society of Technical Materials) and see what happens. Don't read conspiracy theory website after conspiracy theory website and expect to find the truth. There are many exellent sites which explain the inconsistancies in the conspiracy as well (the one theloniousfleabag posted from popular mechanics is very informative). A little advice would be to stay away from blanket statements like this as well. You could back yourself into a corner and lose sight of the truth for good. Let me know what you find in the 9-11 commision book. If its credible, I'll accept it. If not I'll let you know. Not really backing myself into a corner there. For one there would be resistance on each floor if the 'pancaking' did actually take place. Both towers fell at near freefall speed. 10 seconds for each tower to fall. With 110 stories, this would have taken alot longer. Even if there was a 1/4 second delay in each floor falling, that would make it about 25 seconds, twice as long as what really happened. Floor falls, pause, crack break, fall pause, crack break. But everything came down in a thunder and fast. Compare demo'd buildings fall speed and the WTC fall speed. I am trying to be a thourough as possible with what I have. So yeah I am not trying to back myself in corners. I do look at some conspiracy sights, alof of them are cracked, but there are some consistancies with each conspiracy theory, and this is what I am paying attention to. My next book to buy will be the 9/11 Commission report.

I think Black Dog has managed to catch you on that same thing on more that one occasion. Watch out Monty, read your own posts I think you are wrong. I read the links. Not just the biased headlines like many do on this forum. Look at Gerryhatrick dropping a link that had nothing to do with his claim. That is a common tactic by the left and we are on to it. Yeah I think ONLY the left resorts to such childish antics. Anyways, I am glad you are reading all the articles that are linked, and I am glad you are pointing out certain things. I will be more careful in the future and provide you more quality links. That article on Uzbekistan should have had another link to back it up, I did not post that right at all. I take the blame for that, something those on the right rarely do, aka 'taking responsibility for their actions'. I am glad you brought this to my attention.

I would throw alcohol in that group as a gateway drug, but since it is not considered a drug, that is hard to convince people. Most of my friends have gone away from alcohol and gone to pot. I hate what alcohol does to me. It takes me 2 days to recover from a hangover .. does not take more than 5 drinks to get me like that. I don't have a hangover in the morning from pot. A little fuzzy, but that clears up after you wake up and get the blood moving again. To say that pot is more dangerous than alcohol is really not looking at the destuctiveness of alcohol. Legalize pot, and the government could make a killing.

And this is the result of the right being in power: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ + 2318 American soldiers dead and 16653 wounded. And how about that "free" Iraq. Care to walk down a street in Baghdad? Not without alot of armour on my person and on my vehicle. And a big gun.

Well, that was entertaining to read for about 5 minutes.

I think Black Dog has managed to catch you on that same thing on more that one occasion. Watch out Monty, read your own posts

So someone climbed up there while it was on fire and placed thousands of demo charges? You can't be serious. Part of the reason my search continues. If that is the case? What are the implications of that?

Americans I like overall, It is their government that I do not like, or hate, and will question on every turn.

Unless demo'd, a building should not fall down at gravity freefall. PERIOD. And if there was a possibility of WTC being 'pulled' as Silverstein himself said. Then the others could have been pulled to. Sounds fantastic? Too out there? If the WTC 1 and 2 pancaked, then you would see floor fall on floor, pause, crunch, two floors fall on the other floor, cruch, pause, ect. Even if there was a slight delay in the crunch/fall part, that would still not thave brought them down in freefall speed. Take this into account. The 9/11 Commision is a book I am looking to pick up soon, I am curious as to what is in there compared to what had happened, and what I know about that time.

There are always going to be a few bad apples in the bunch. No doubts there. I would like to hope that not all our troops/commanders/politicians support the torture avenue. If they did, I would want them all out of office. We are not in the buisness of torture. A gray line it seems about what is considered torture. Think of it as the US's prision system. Solitary confinement, ect, take away all that they have. ALL, including religious articles. Hypnosis is not that reliable, but I would imagine you would get more out of that than lets say pilling them naked in a pyramid in the middle of then room. Here is the real thing you all have to take into account. I will use GITMO as an example. Do you support torturing terrorists? Do you support torturing innocents? Can you tell me who is who behind those bars in GITMO? Can you seperate the innocent from the guilty? All of them are termed enemy combatants and the 'police' can detain indefinately without question or charged in anyway shape or form. How can you really tell who is innocent and who is guilty among that group? No charge, no trial, no rights, no evidence, no hope. I would not want to cooperate with the US if I was detained without cause/reason. No charges brought against me. I am a slave at this point. I am a noone. I can be erased and no one would notice. I would think that, even if the innocents are in GITMO, they won't remain innocent much longer. Influenced by the other actual (but not discernable) terrorists, the innocents would start to side with the terrorists. I will say that I would think that some have died in the US's custody (GITMO or whereever) and I would say some are innocent. It would really suck to be an innocent in any of these prisions. And with 'extraordinary rendition' the US clearly supports torture and terror. Washington Post Says that torture does not net results. Here is an article from News Hounds that watches Fox News so we don't have to. Over at Media Matters they really say the same thing as above.... and to quote Bush himself. So why are they rendering people to contries that they themselves constantly bitch about their Human Rights record? And here I am looking at the BBC, and an article on Uzbek torture and well that says it all. The Arar case for example. - http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6 -Turns out he was innocent. This is the crap you idiiots want to avoid.

Uh yeah nice poll. France already has nukes, I am hoping you already knew that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_we...ass_destruction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_weap...ass_destruction Also the US has had it's fair share of establishing coups in other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_coup...eteenth_century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to..._foreign_policy http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8.htm Countries that have had a US backed coup Chilie Argentina Panama Iraq Iran Egypt Brazil Libya Thailand I could go on.

I would nuke this whole thread considering gerryhatrick already started this in another thread.

Ok 6 women die in the same state with the same pill using the pill in a different way that the doctor tells them. This is not the drug manufactures fault. It is the doctor's fault. He tells the patient how it is taken , and the patient listens. So the drug maker is at fault and that makes you want to pull the drug? Do you know how much damage some aspirin can do you you? There should be some disclaimer on the medicine about death. And there are a number of women who have died on the drug, but you would not even consider that if the woman has some other medical problem that they should not be taking this pill. That one point they seem to bring up. You know with other drugs they say 'do not take this if you have yada, it may do this and relly kill you' Medicin is just like anything else, stuff happens that they never anticipated. This has been true for almost every drug out there. There are smart people developing these drugs, but they cannot take into account every possibility at the start. I would also like to mention that my sister had an abortion when she was 15. My parents basicly told her that she should get an abortion. It also was my sisters choice as well. She would have ruined her life if she had the child. Yes she could have done adoption, but that was not an option she wanted to pursue. It was done and done one weekend. If she had the child, she may not have become as sucsessful as she is today. Running her own interior design consutling company. She is smart and intelligent, and the baby would have killed all motiviation.

However most articles that I have read that support those conspiracy theories are more consistant with each other. If we look at Bush's Admin before and after 9-11, and then before and after the Iraq invasion, they tell us one thing, and it turns out to be wrong, then they play collateral damage and try to give us another reason. All this time the conspirists are saying the same thing then and now. Holes are constantly shot through Bush and Co's speeches.

No we should not revisit Roe vs Wade. That is all I am going to contibute to this derailed thread.

Hey Monty, we would like NOT to see a Civil War in Iraq, but we are not blind and dumb to the reality that is is a HIGH possibility that it can happen. Do us on the left want to see a civil war? NO F'N WAY. We would like this resolved as well, but I think it is time to change some strategies. Don't you think? Or blindy follow the CIC into any battle? I was watching an interview with Donald Rumsfeld through Google Video, it was Meet The Press, and he was saying how they need to have the right media propaganda to support their cause.