Army Guy

When was the last time you drove any where in Canada and seen signs of conflict...when was the last time a suicide bomber blew up a market in Canada...or an F-18 dropping bombs in a town near you...we are over there so you don't have to live through that...It's not a red hearing, it's reality...

Guess so, here is a small list of conflicts that Britian has been involved with. And while it may be true we have been involved in some of these take a look at our contributions and military size at the time, and ask your self did we pull our wieght. India, Palestine, Malaya, Korea, Suez Canal Zone, Kenya, Cyprus, Suez 1956, Borneo, Vietnam, Aden, Radfan, Oman, Dhofar, Northern Ireland, the Falklands War, the Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo, Take a look at our present defense pacts and take a look at how much we pay or how much we give up...do we pull our wieght not in my opinion....

.link At the time, the population east of the Jordan River contained over 400,000 Palestinian refugees who made up one-third of the population of the Kingdom; another third of the population was Palestinians on the West Bank. Only one third of the population consisted of the original inhabitants of Trans-Jordan, which meant that the Jordanians had become a ruling minority over a Palestinian majority. Jordan: King Hussein of Jordan was maligned throughout the Arab world for having attacked the Palestinian resistance, and although he had now averted the physical threat to his throne, his legitimacy had suffered a crippling blow among Palestinians (who made up the majority of the kingdom's inhabitants) and on the regional Arab scene. Only a few years later, in 1974, the Arab League (and then the UN) would recognize the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, denying Jordan's long-held claim to ownership of East Jerusalem and sovereignty over the Palestinian West Bank population. I think you can check with some of the other countries in the nieborhood for their laws... Yes lets get specific because at one time Jordan and Eygpt were occupping forces as well...But YA we are slamming Israel i get it.... How many Palistinians were expulled from Occupy terrorities again.... When the Haganah went on the offensive, between April and July, a further 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinian Arabs left or were expelled, mainly from the towns of Haifa, Tiberias, Beit-Shean, Safed, Jaffa and Acre, which lost more than 90 percent of their Arab inhabitants.[10] Expulsions took place in many towns and villages, particularly along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road[11] and in Eastern Galilee.[12]"] linkBetween December 1947 and March 1948, around 100,000 Palestinian Arabs fled. Among them were many from the higher and middle classes from the cities, who left voluntarily, expecting to return when the Arab states took control of the country.[9] When the Haganah went on the offensive, between April and July, a further 250,000 to 300,000 Palestinian Arabs left or were expelled, mainly from the towns of Haifa, Tiberias, Beit-Shean, Safed, Jaffa and Acre, which lost more than 90 percent of their Arab inhabitants.[10] Expulsions took place in many towns and villages, particularly along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road[11] and in Eastern Galilee.[12] About 50,000-70,000 inhabitants of Lydda and Ramle were expelled towards Ramallah by the Israel Defence Force during Operation Danny,[13] and most others during operations of the IDF in its rear areas.[14] During Operation Dekel, the Arabs of Nazareth and South Galilee were allowed to remain in their homes.[15] Today they form the core of the Arab Israeli population. From October to November 1948, the IDF launched Operation Yoav to remove Egyptian forces from the Negev and Operation Hiram to remove the Arab Liberation Army from North Galilee during which at least nine massacres of Arabs were carried out by IDF soldiers.[16] These events generated an exodus of 200,000 to 220,000 Palestinian Arabs. Here, Arabs fled fearing atrocities or were expelled if they had not fled.[17] After the war, from 1948 to 1950, the IDF expelled around 30,000 to 40,000 Arabs from the borderlands of the new Israeli state.[18] My link Really name one country that has offered to take them in as equals....in any numbers...Racist crap...it's the truth...and you know it...Maybe if you did some more reading....

Seen any terrorist downtown montreal yet...guess we still making the right choice

There are trade offs all the time, Your not going to tell me in the last 50 years we have been pulling our wieght in regards to any of our defensive pacts are you. (Afghanistan is the exception) All one has to do is look at our pact with the US, then look at who foots the bills or most of it...

SHWA: Please fill me in then ? Since korea were have we split our blood in a military adventure ?

Correct me if i'm wrong but we are part of larger Military pacts are we not....and we could deploy troops and equipment comparable to our size....

Well to be fair to the entire Palestinian problem is not just Israel, it;s the entire middle eastern area...perhaps you should check on Jordian laws in regards to Palestinian (jordians) who have citinship, what are those laws in regards to them buying land in Jordan....just a note that palestians actually make up the majority in Jordan.... you might also check into the other laws in the other nations as well....this problem is not just AN ISRAELIS problem but a middle eastern one.... When it comes down to it nobody wants them.....

Was it interference or part of the Cold war ? and where do you think we'd be if NATO and the US did nothing during that period of history ? And do you really buy into that theory that Bin Ladin was pissed enough that US troops were in Saudi to raise a small army of religious fanitics and take the war to the US....I mean really does that not get your blood bioling that some wing nut can change the world forever just because he is not happy with his countries foreign policy....that he can decide to fly planes into the twin towers.... It pisses me off, and in the end he got just what he had coming to him.... There are well over 100 armed conflicts in the world today, and 99 % of them "we" as in Canada decide to due nothing....Sticking your head in the sand is "never" the right thing to do...and evently it will come back and bite someone... Canadians are a funney lot, we don't give a shit how many die in wars or conflicts, people can kill themselfs alday and all night, men,women,and children...and yet one TV commerical comes on about some kid straving we dig out our wallets send some money thinking everything is good....but as soon as we want to go down to that country and kick some ass and stop those responsiable for all these starving kids we get all touchy feely....we start thinking we should just let them kill each other...sort out there own problems....

The entire event was a bit over the top...Yes it is nice to be recongized ,a beer is nice, but not with parades and balloons.... No your right it did not have to be a combat role, which before Afghanistan thats all of what we did, all the NON Combat stuff....left all the hard stuff for everyone else...want a seat at the table you have to be willing to risk a piece of your ass..

Can't wait until you explain all chechens are terrorists....

Which reports the ones i took the quotes from, perhaps you should re read them... I thought i was pretty baised laying the blame at the feet of both parties, but perhaps wild bill is right you don't like my facts, fair enough perhaps you can give me your source so i can look at your facts.... Not sure what to make of this really, but OK if your not up to debating the topic fine...But it's not up to me to prove your piont, As for your BBC quote well i seen your BBC and raised you another...I also gave qoutes from the OSCE, UN , and European commision reports....

We've also learned that you can't just stop spending , until we are comfortable with our debt, you must maintain all debts at the minimum status quo . Or you'll find your selfs spending massive amounts to bring those dept up to current standards...like we did with DND...which was near the piont of collaspe...

quote]Before the break-up of the Soviet Union, South Ossetia operated as the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast, an autonomous region within the Georgian SSR. A military conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia broke out in January 1991 when Georgia sent troops to subdue a South Ossetian separatist movement. The separatists were helped by former Soviet military units, who by now had come under Russian command. Correct me if i'm wrong, but at the time was South Ossetia not within the inter national recongized borders of Georgia... Thats alittle more than intervening is it not, separatists units under direct Russia command.... How is that similar to what NATO is doing in the mid east please be specfic. You forget to mention that Russia did not support this move, in fact they forbade it from happening. And is one of reasons why they chose direct military action... Not true, what you meant to say was 90% of the Ossetians supported full independance...which accounted for only 60 % of the population. So your statement is a bit misleading. an EU report, this position is inconsistent with international law, which considers the vast majority of purportedly naturalised persons as not Russian citizens Yes they do, however what you also fail to mention is that 71 % of them are living in Russia, not South Ossetia...again a misleading fact. Lets keep in mind according to the inter national comunity Abkhazai is still part of Georgia....and BBC has film footage of a Russian build up...Both sides were building up... These facts have been verified by UN and other peacekeepers in the area... I think what is clear is that Russia's failure to control Ossetia milita forces and their actions played a major role in the conflict . Note that it has also been noted by the NY times that Georgias inexperienced military may have started the engagement But no inclusive proof has been brought forward by either side todate... In his interview to the CNN, answering to the anchor's question, "Did you take a gamble? Your government launched its own attempt to retake South Ossetia, guess 24 hour ago?" Saakashvili answered "We did not. [Only when Russian APCs crossed the border at 24 AM, August 7] we had to fire back the artillery, we had to take measures. Because it was a clear-cut case of intervention."[141] However, no conclusive evidence was presented by Georgia or its Western supporters that Russia was invading the country before the Georgian attack, according to the New York Times.[124] Instead, "the accounts suggest that Georgia’s inexperienced military attacked the isolated separatist capital of Tskhinvali on 7 August with indiscriminate artillery and rocket fire, exposing civilians, Russian peacekeepers and unarmed monitors to harm".[115][124] Georgia's claim to be responding to a premeditated Russian assault received little support from the US and NATO.[142] Here is what an inter national fact finding mission found out

Investing in ones military is hardly a dumb thing to to...But one that does need to be done....

Really, then lets hear them, I mean you put it out there so prove your statements...."teach me "

Asbestos products...Man is that goggle ever hard to work... link

Nice come back, but is that all you got ...however If your going to post something, you should be able to back it up with some facts, so how about it....

It's not a new secret project there are serveral space based projects for the CDN government as per the site below. My link

Do you always pull facts out your ass, or have you done any research on this at all Comrad....

Canada spends 6.3% of our GDP on Defense ( based on 30 bil) , 17.9 on Health care, 12.7 on Education, and some 30 % or more on Infra struture.... Sorry what was the question again.

War is not Politics, but rather the Lack of or failure of...Other than approving of National interests and national objectives thier involvement is rather limited....Don't kid your self...if you think the tax payer has got any say in a total war situation IE like WWII was and when the Gen says bomb them ....they get bombed and you as a tax payer keeps paying and dying until someone says uncle.... Once the politicians start playing gen that is when things get all cocked up...just like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq...to name a few... In Vietnam the Tax payer did have a major influence...hence why they lost, becuase it was not being run by the gens but wannabe Politicians

What do you think they are going to find....If i was a betting man nothing more than the other dozen or so investigations found....sounds like a waste of someones tax dollars,,,i mean what are they going to do to the Taliban if they find something....

The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Had the US kept up un restricted bombing of the North, plus punished those other countries for allowing the North to operate within their borders...that war would have been over in months...

Yes it is Human Nature to want the latest and greatest equipment that money can buy, and while most of us will finally conceed to your speaking piont and ask ourselfs do we really need that one tool with all the bells and whistles or can i get by with a cheaper one....and for most items in lfe we do finally purchase the cheaper verison... But military equipment you have to start asking a few more questions, and rightfully so.... as this equipment is not only for taking lifes but saving them as well...equipment that will give our soldiers an edge on the battlefield means they are safer, (increases the average life span of a soldier)meaning the enemy is dieing off alot quicker than ours...which in the end is what war is all about is it not...And when your talking about Canada manpower it is an issue there are only so many persons that can be inducted , trained and forced to fight for our flag , as opposed to say Russia or China....which has people to throw away for any cause....So we don't need all the toys, but what ever we purchase needs to be better than say the worst case situation that murphy can throw at us... Lets remember we have always had sub's perhaps not enough of them but i don't think our navy has done without them, once again we have not kept our end of the bargin here in regards ensuring our forces have the equipment they need to do the job our Nation has asked of them....And i'm by no means a sub expert that i'll leave to BC since he was a submariner from way back....what i do know is when you trace our subs history back, the north has been a free fire zone with other nations coming and going as they please...all year round...not just when the polar ice pack is melting currently their is only 2 types of ves that can do that, Nuc powered ice breaker, only good most of the year which leaves some areas left unpatroled...or Nuc subs or Alt fuel subs ...So while they may be a nice to have they are required....if you don't think so then perhaps we should look at only patroling when it's nice out or during the summer months...As for affording it all, really ...Canadians are just getting the sticker shock now, at how much it costs when you starve your Military for 10 plus years...So really it comes down to this you want security then you pay for it...remember that although i volunteered the next brew up may not be so, and our sons and daughters will be putting on the uniforms and manning the equipment we thought was to expensive... I not sure where you got this thing about F-35 for artic patrols , that is not thier entire function...and while some Ministers lack of imigination on uses for the F-35 may be all the media has got to report....Canada has signed on to god knows how many defensive agreements, with countries around the globe...all it would take is for some spark and Canada would be asked to throw in it's troops and equipment to defend or fight some nation in a far away place...Think about the US response to Russias agression last year...or what if China decides it's time to take back it's claimed terrirtory....and while it might be unlikely in your mind this would happen perhaps ask BC how many unreported Naval incidents happened during the last 20 years, how many lifes were lost, and what equipment was actually sunk or damaged... The threat is real...