Army Guy

I agree that some employment has conditions, and in the hiring process why would we not agree with any reasonable conditions all those conditions are set or approved by law...or one could set all women must come into work on thursdays naked, or in micro mini's ....so conditions are laid out in law, telling employers and employees what is legal what is not...in this case the law/ And HRC states that there are some jobs which have safety concerns can test employees for illigal drug useage or consumption...if that is the case then there is a law out there that does confirm that some not all persons can be tested for consumption...which would mean there is a law...it just does not apply to everyone... but why i ask..if consumption is legal...how could a employer dismiss me for something that is legal...wrongful dismal claims are heard where ? in court, with lawyers and judges ...and maybe this is just me, but what law is this charged under... which is confusing really ...i can't be charged for consumption but i can get fired for it...OK if thats the case one would assume there is a law some where...

Every member is first and foremost held accountable to the law of the land,and any that are charged to uphold it canadian and local laws are applied first and while we can not be charged twice for the same charge, the military justice system can and will also charge you for smaller things conduct unbecoming is the catch all...normally resulting in a cash fine or extra duties/ training..... I don't know which is worse the MP's or local police...i know while we were in Arkansa " sorry spelling" there was a lot of local cops we did not want to get stopped by...in fact a bunch of us got this warning" If you Canadians think your going to come into my town and cause trouble like the last assholes ...see this here ring "as he shows us the botom of his night stick...thats how far i'm going to stick it up your ass...this guy was more than 6'6 I'm 6'3 and had to look up he was huge needless to say we got drunk but we were on our best behavior...mind you MP can get pretty big as well...

Any urine testing that is conditions of employment,or other wise ordered all of which gets tied into basic human rights, and laws which state or cover the use of tests and testing, when and whom or what can be tested...Back to the question "So explain to me what exactly does a urine test , test for, for use or consumption is it not." and why the tests if not to seek if that person has consumed... So i ask because i can not find a source for it...How could a employer fire you for use, if it is legal to consume illigal drugs. that would be unlawful dismisal would it not...so there must be a law on the books some where that states employers can put legal caveats on our jobs, ones that would stand up in law...because to take your employer to court you are infact seeing a lawyer and judge are you not...which means the law has to be involved somewhere...I'm just assuming it would be criminal law, maybe i'm wrong.

Ya i get that part but if you read further down it will explain what the employer can do if a user fails the tests...my piont is not much as it takes multiply times before the employer can legally fire them...thats the scary part... I wasn't in the know until i was doing some research on this topic...So right now i'm not sure, but what i do know is according to the link i provided we are not following it's guide lines...

One does not have to operate machinery to have a breathalyzer used again'st you, as it is the one of the tests that measures consumption if your job requires it, your employer can order a test done to see if or how intoxicated you are...

Waldo: So explain to me what exactly does a urine test , test for, for use or consumption is it not...and we have laws regarding testing, do we not...why would we test for use or consumption if it was legal to do so...i mean consume illigal drugs....

I'm actually surprised that this post is not huge by now, is this not what all those Anti American clans want, the US to go home....The US to stop being the worlds policemen....It's about time i say...let the US give the world a wake up call, pull out it's forces out of europe along with all their US dollars...and wait until they begin to scream....How many of them could even afford defense in todays world... I just wish they would do the same with Canada...give us a huge wake up call...when we really find out how much defense costs and how little we are paying for it....

I was putting that in context, if you had read my link from the HRC on drug testing. the example i used was an airline pilot who is one of the few oocupations that are tested for drugs... it also lists the possiable results for teesting postive for any drugs...and it's scary to think that said pilot or anyone really in an occupation that safety is the prime concern, that it is the employer that is responsable to provide treatment, to find a postion that does not require such high safety standards, to infact bend over backwards to ensure they do not cause undue stress or hardship on the user....my piont was remember that the next time your flying....and you look at the pilot with the glassed over eyes ....it actually takes serveral incidents before they can fire or release him....now thats scary... And yet i've seen many examples of military personal being given a pink slips nd dismissed dishonorably due to drugs on the first case..And i'm not sure why, or even if that portion of the Human rights charter applies...or how it applies I'm assuming this is the same for RCMP officers as well...

Technically, the one holding the doobie when the cop walks in is the one in possession. Once consumed, one is no longer in possession in the eyes of the law. Same thing if your 15 yr old son is caught with a beer in his hand, he is charged (or can be) with 'Minor in Possession of Alchol' but cannot be chagred with Minor w Alchol in his system. (unless driving ) 1) If I’m under 18 and caught in possession of alcohol, what are the consequences? Naturally, your liquor will be confiscated. You could also be issued a $115 ticket (sometimes commonly called a “liquor ticket”) under section 87(1) of the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Act: Minors 87(1) Subject to subsection (3) and section 88, no minor may (a) purchase or attempt to purchase liquor; ( obtain or attempt to obtain liquor; (c) possess or consume liquor.

In doing some research i did find out why we can not test anyone for consumption of drugs. It's actually very scary to think that drug users have more rights afforded to them than employers..After you read this one should think of a commericial airline pilot here to put some spin on "is" it right....This was taken from the Canadian Human Rights Commission Policy on Alcohol and Drug Testing... It also may be why there is no laws on consumption, as there are no reliable test to see if a person is under the influence like there is for booze....they do however have tests that can tell if a individual has taken drugs in the past...or recently, as the drugs are still in their system and yet they can not register how much is in the system, according to the HRC and Courts of Canada... My link

My piont was WHY do we need a law covering consumption if the other laws cover almost everything....which would mean you would have to break one of those laws in order to consume...Another reason would be to cover most of this topic...and end it with a clear and concise explanation...or in other words close the legal loop holes for those that think it is legal to consume illigal drugs of course it would have to be detailed and explain all the methods to consume drugs into the body... It has to with something inside the Criminal code or a dismisal or charges would be illigal and could be redressed in a court of Law.

Why do we need a law on that covers consumption, when we have laws that clearly state it is unlawful to possess, production, traffic, import and export of drugs. So how does one consume a drug without first breaking one of the already mentioned laws...you can't...so why do we need a another law that specifically states NO consuption, via oral or anal do we need to cover ever circumstance .... SO someone yells COPS, you swallow your stash of Coke or what ever, you have covered your self from being arrested...because you are no longer in pocession....So are you saying there is a glich in the law....because a urine test would confirm the presence of any drug, as you body has not broken it down yet, so and this is a question would you not be techically still in pocession, which is illegal is it not.... If consumption is legal, then under what criminal code can one be dismissed from employment for failing a urine test upon request ...Urine testing is more common in the work place than we think (not just Government employees DND, RCMP,ATOMIC ENERGY ETC) but there is also testing done at major companies such as Irving,not just for there employees but also sub contractors as well...and it is done to prove consumption over a specific period of time... SO if there is consumption is 100 % legal then under what law or grounds are they able to dismiss employees, or charged them under QR&O for military, and the RCMP code of conduct, which can range any where from fines to Jail time.

Nothing makes me special, but i will tell you i'm not a clerk at walmart either. what i will tell you is i have 30 years of experience as an Inf soldier, and while i don't work in Ottawa by chioce i still have access to materials about the Army that are not available on the intra net...This is my life it is what i do, and i do it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week... And i'm not slamming Smallc military knowledge as he is a huge supporter of the military, and although we have had this disagreement for years now, he does keep me on the staight and narrow and he does make a great contribution to the military topics on this forum. You have a valid piont on this , DND did turn in excess dollars back to the government..it is embrassing and i hope someones balls are hanging on a wall...and someone failed to plan in detail and huge amounts of funds were given back...not the message we wanted to send...and i doubt it will happen this year...

How could it be true you spend hours a day doing this... So lets start with a list shall we, I'll keep it simple and just use equipment that is still in service by operational units, or over seas. MLVW: great truck 10 years ago but it has been driven hard and put away wet Last year the military put the following restrictions on it...not bad for one of the logistics prime movers...Since then this veh has been declared not supportable, meaning there are no parts being purchased any longer, check most Bases and you'll find dozens upon dozens of these trucks awaiting the long drive out to the ranges... 1. No troop transport, 2. No ammo transport, 3. Max allowable road speed=60kph. Replacement is in the works but no contract has been signed, Note that this veh does have a garison or sister veh type, the MSVS which was orginally purchased for the reserves, now being distributed to solve issues with MLVW's it's a huge veh but prone to bursting in flames, which they now repairing or modifiing to fix that problem... LSVW : well i don't have to go very far with this veh, a polictical and military failure...this trucks are so rusted that it is common for drivers and passagers to pound the floor boards to ensure there feet don't fall through while driving...No replacement being looked at this time...Same problem with these as well they burst into flames they are still trying to fix the problem... HLVW; excellent truck , only complaint is not enough of them purchased, is getting old now, and it's time to replace them, infact they stop using them in Afghan and purchased some benz ATCO's "of course only being used in Afghan.... there is a Project to replace them, but no contracts as of yet... TLAV an uparmoured upgraded M-113 purchased in the 50's still going strong,Afghan had over 80 of them running around, still dozens more running around in Canada....How many Nations in the top 16 still own and operate these as IFV's. LAV III Great veh , but past it's prime, to few in numbers , Afghan took a toll on these vehs, and Veh cas were high...so now with the rebuild numbers will be even fewer....mean while Gen motors says it will build us the LAV H which is a Canadian upgraded version of the LAV V but no go project was canceled no funds...so upgrade it is... Leo I : thats right we are still using the old leo's exception in Afghan , our only Armoured (tank) Reg in Canada,still operates the old tanks, sure we did purchase some from europe but they are still not in service yet...and they will only be brought up to LEO IIA4 Cdn standard, mean while Germany has launcher an LEO IIA7 model... M777 yes we did purchase these new high tech towed guns, but at a cost, we had to retire all the M109's 155mm SPA and french 105's...or 2/3's of our arty fire power...replaced by a handful of guns...Most of these have seen action in Afghan and are well used.... Sea king : i know it's a poor example because it's what over 45 years old...and although we do have a contract anyone seen the new helos flying yet.... CH-148 , yes the new SAR helo's, how many times have they been grounded, be it cracked rotars, or just plain lack of spare parts...wonder how a organization so flush with cash could have a lack or spare parts for a Airframe so critical as one for SAR....And how long has this project been on the books, would you say it's fair to say over 10 years or more...knowing the time frame to replace equipment why is there not more ongoing projects... no funds.... F-18A/B great airplane but dated, compared to the new models E and F, or F-35...while the Airforce have already chosen it's replacement there is no contract , yes we sort have a commitment, but did'nt we have a commitment to purchase replacements for the Sea king...shit i thought we even had a contract signed ready for production....which proves another piont until production is started and delivered anything can happen...a change of government and poof DND could be right back at the starting line again... Navy ships...well lets not go there....Subs i think we covered subs already....And your write up by the Adm is nice but just what did you expect him to say....there shit...talk to the guys that serve on them shit they even have there own web site.... So lets go over the list again these are just of the top of my head , there is lots more out there if one did some research ....funney how each element is covered, and each piece is a major componet to that elements fighting capability....or logistical capability.... And yet we are good to go, even when DND just annouces that in 2015 they will spend over 70 % of existing budget in wages ...and they will have to cut jobs and cancel some projects on the books...thats got to be a warning if i ever heard one....wonder which projects will go...i wonder which jobs they will slashed....sound like a dept that is flush with cash to you....and this has already been explained to Canadians you can not repair all the damage down during our decde of darkness in a few yearws with a few good budgets....how could we it takes on avg 7 to 10 years to crank out a project....it should take that long just to start repairing the damage....

2000 is not a small army it's a club....shit a small army would be 50 k of people give us all a break.... this is why i have a problem with yours, maybe someday you'll get the true picture. My link My link url="http://www.ceasefire.ca/?p=8418"]My link[/url] My link[The Military Today The 50-year old "Sea King" helicopters are often cited as a quintessential example of our under-funded army. The army spends more time fixing them then they spend in the air. Despite its proud history and institutional maturity, there is a rather large gap in perceptions between how the Canadian military thinks of itself, and how the public at large regards it. Today you'll often hear Canadian military denounced as a "joke," "pathetic," or worse. Though we may respect our men and women in uniform, few Canadians hold our army in high regard, for the simple fact that the Canadian armed forces remain so small and under-funded. Though Canadians like to claim to be modest, they're also very ambitious, and have never really been entirely comfortable with Canada just being a "minor" country. Having a small and underfunded military is an embarrassing reminder of this status. There are always stories in the media about how poorly equipped our soldiers are, and how they are using decades-old equipment that literally falls apart in their hands. It's very fashionable for populist politicians to promise to increase funding for the armed forces, but in practice the Canadian government always has lots of other spending priorities. Certain "sacrifices" always must be made to fund project X, and more often than not the Canadian military has been the victim of such budget cuts.

Our military is one of the best in the world not because of our equipment but rather for the capability of it's troops which is due to our older make do equipment and the troops being adaptable in knowing how to make old stuff work like new... The Most Capability in the world is a tough standard to live up to, considering the company we normally keep. and as long we deploy a battle group or less we can compete...thats less than 2000 pers for it to be sustainable (Army Pers) Lets take a look at some of the Army's gear shall we. LAV III over 10 years old and rode hard needs replacement, Currently Each Mech INF Bn has only enough LAV's to outfit one out of every three rifle Companies....the rest get moved by bus...or truck..that makes us motorized not Mech... we supplement these with the TLAV or M113 on steriods, orginal made in 1950's also rode hard, maybe one Bn has one companies worth.......M777 excellent arty piece, however how many did we buy, Note we retired the M109 our main arty piece along with the french 105...gone replaced by the M777 with maybe a third of the numbers, and most of them have also been rode hard...Combat engineer equipment still using the light Leo chasis with the contract still being finalized....it could take years, until then they will use the old stuff, and just a note only the Heavy brig has these...the rest have light capabilities, and perhaps one heavy piece to keep current... Your right we could talk numbers all night but when you look at the numbers a country our size only has 3 Brigades to defend it....thats maybe 18,000 troops....how many sq kms in Canada anyway.... The military is just another Dept and subject to cuts and broken promises just like the rest...you paint a picture that all is rosey, birds singing ...but it is not...DND has just started in it's recover, and cuts or broken promises will set us back decades......and not much has been delivered just yet or even in production...... Really i just read an article on the Germany type 212 and 214 they seem they have the best sub in the world, still in production ....Shit i hope we don't have to wait 12 to 15 years before we talk about the new F-35 we are going to buy...speaking of 2013 the navy said in the maple leaf...Military news letter, the best sub we had , just had a Ant fire and should be back in service in 2013...with the second sub not in service before 2014...and well the third died on the operating table a long time ago....Some people in the Navy think there are the right ship for the right price...and yet they have yet to complete a full tour of duty in what 12 years....i know there almost there...

It does when the end product does not surpass the LAV 4 specifactions...Yes it will be an upgrade from the old LAV III but it's a rebuild...some addtional armour new power pact, upgraded suspension....but remember we cancelled our purchase of LAV V ....which was designed based on Canadian experiences in AFGHAN it was built and designed for the CF....and the purchase was for 1200 vehs...enough to outfit all reg force units...plus have spares for deployment...but this post is about our reserve brothers which need equipment as well, how can we do that if we can't outfit ourselfs...after all we are only talking about 3 Brigade Groups...that can barely send out one Battlegroup and sustain it.... Not so at all the US ,UK , France barely pass the 50 % mark....look at the others and see , Canada is one of the best paid militarys in the world...and i'll be the first to say i'd take a pay decrease if it meant we could get decent equipment in the numbers we need...DND has already stated that in 2015 it will pay out more than 70% in wages and it's new forecast will mean reduction in numbers or the cutting of equipment projects.... Then it does not increase our capbility does it, it needs to be on the ground , troops trained in it's use, and issued to operational units before it is considered a new capability....Alot of governments have made commitment in the past, the military has learned you can't fight anything with promises or commitments....this country is facing some tough finicial times, and it is common practice to cut promises and commitments....

CCV is not a new Capbility, but rather the extension of the M-113, with a turrent which is standard on most IFV today...it's orginal purpose was to outfit the InF Bn's outwest so they could keep up with the new Leo's...it was later decided to give some of this capbility to other Inf Bn.s....depleting the numbers required to out fit the only Heavy Mech Brig in Canada.... LAV III is a rebuild like it or not, and while extending it's life for another 20 years providing there is no more missions...the LAV III is alraedy 3 versions behind in tech and protection...Lets keep in mind that most of our cas were from IED's...so more protection should take pri...but we are talking money here not lives....so we will get a re build with some upgrades...and in the next 20 years we will be 6 versions behind.... TAPV is another Money bsavings buy, could not afford more CCV's, nor LAV 5 so we compromised and decided to fill the holes with trucks on steriods....this idea will fail a 4 wheel drive veh is not going to keep up with an 8 wheel drive one...just like an 8 wheel one will not keep up with a tracked one...see a patern here 20 years for now we will be driving motocross bikes into battle because it was cheaper.... You can't transport troops on a battlefield in trucks...the truck projects are for logistics...The sky is not falling because you don't have to live in my world, and while it's not falling it's come close.... The SUB's.... try and find a navy guy that will admit to being a submariner, a once proud group reduce to operate shit we bought in a fire sale... , lets look at the facts How many days in total does all 3 subs have on active duty....and how many days have they spent in Maint....

Which of it is false ? We are talking about prime movers on the battlefield are we not, of which there is 3 projects TAPV, which is a small truck on steroids, built to withstand IED's not much good on a high intensity battlefield....It's going to replace the Coyote recce veh, a LAV with 25mm cannon....there is the CCV project they are looking at serveral vehs the prime one is a CV90 which will give us a major boast in capabilities, on all modes of the battlefield, but we are not buying enough of them, to outfit entire Bn's...No contracts have been let for either project todate...The Last project is up rebuild the LAV III, once again it's a rebuild Alot of these vehs have been on the battlefield and driven like they were stolen..there are old and tired and a rebuild will just delay their much needed replacement....The LAV design is now upto a LAV V or LAV H light years ahead of the LAV III...which is our primary Battle taxi within the forces, it's still a fine veh, however the enemy has already found ways to comprise it's armour, while the new LAV 5 are larger and better armoured... We have one of the top 20 military budgets in the world....and yet a news release today says by 2015 over 70 % of that budget will be used to pay DND pers...threatening all projects on the books today.... Yes the vehs we have today are more effective, than yester year...but what you don't understand is an Inf bn CONSISTS OF 3 RIFLE COMPANIES....and in most Inf Bn's they only have enough LAV's for one...you can not take a Bn size objective with one Company of men, and you can not shuttle them into combat......so while the veh is more effective , there is not enough of them to carry out the job....so its a big Fail....introducing the TAPV will change that some what providing our next mission is Afghan type....the CCV will not plug all the holes... As far as more Capabilty, most of which has yet to hit the ground yet....with the exception of the C-17, and one C-130J so your statement while true is a bit misleading....

Yes there is hundrds of new vehs in route, the TAPV is to replace the Coyote Recce Lav and act as a prime troop mover for some Bn's and the CV90 is to give us a tracked IFV orginal for the Heavy mech unit, in Edmonton, now it's being looked at having one coys worth in a few other Bns.... not all Bn's will get these vehs, there is nothing in the works for the LAV III our prime Inf Fighting veh except a rebuild, Veh Cas from Afghan have left a severe shortage of these vehs....The fleet in Afghan right now will come back, severely used and abused.... So much for the new system...The Army has been told our time at the trough is over,after the projects they have on the boards are completed it will be the Navies turn as it should be, but the Army is far from being 100 % fit and ready for battle... Amazing how numbers can reflect what ever you want, you'll also remember a speach given by hillier at the start of his tenor, For the forces to grow and continue it's equipment replacement it would require a Ann budget of over 30 bils....And that is for our current size of 63,000 pers...their goal was to set our numbers to 75,000 which was later reduced to 70 k.... You also forget that most of these countries in the top 15 are not going through a major refit of almost every platform from every element...

Scotty: Not true, Combat arms is actually flush with soldiers, in fact the Infantry is actually overbourne, by as much as 2000 soldiers and is now in the process of sending a good chunk to other trades... Things in the navy are not going well, as funding has been directed at getting the Army in order, that includes recruits as well. The fight for funding continues in all the elements the Army has been living high on the hog compare to say the navy which has been feed scraps up until recently....the Reserves fall beneath them in Pri...And while the Army has been force feed a good chunck of funding it is still not enough to Arm or equip all it's units with peace time To&E, perfect example of that is the LAV III only 750 were purchased when 1200 were required, most Inf units that are classified Mechanized only have one coy worth of LAV's out of 3.... DND has for years wanted to recreate a 4 th Mech brigade group, to share in the deployment relief,and New missions , giving perhaps a larger deployable force...but it simply can not afford it... With these kinds of shortages one could ask How we we equip the reserves, where would the funding come from to build new infra structure. I think Dereck hit the nail on the head, DND needs to be properly funded to accomplish these tasks.

WOW...4 out of what 23 countries a nice start but it does nothing to prove your theory...

Sure if that is what it takes, it's not like it has not been done before, military cuts are normally the first to come up in any conversation about cost cutting measures,it's a Candian reflect action, as long as cuts don't effect your pogy check or hockey night in Canada , oh and lets not forget the cost of beer....those items are off limits... I agree there is some waste going on within the military, and there is savings to be had within the dept....but the changing of letterheads and logos is not going to come up with the savings your wishing for...As for closing bases good luck with that the Military has tried in the past to close smaller bases and consolidate for cost savings it was the general public that protested and DND was force to keep them open....As for your chooses of bases to close good luck with closing those bases.... Nice come back, don't tell me some army guy stole your girlfriend / wife pumped her full of sunshine and she left you....so now your anti establishment, bet your cringe at any guy in uniform, including the postman....give it up man let her go... Yes we are a waste of tax payers money until you need us, you know to shovel your drive way, respond to a forest fire , ice strom , or flood, lets not forget SAR, providing jobs to thousands....oh and my favorite killing our enemies then we your best buds... First you want cut backs, base closures, then dictate what mission we should have....every look at a map of Canada, we can't properly defend Canada right now with the amount of troops/ equipment we have now....but hey, whats the worry when the shit hits the fan, the military will swell with guys like you who by law will be force to serve in the very military you despise now, but don't worry, we will give you a couple of weeks of training before we send you up to the front...to use that very equipment we could afford to buy...thats right it's not the best equipment out there ...but it is the best we could afford...now get you ass to your trench...

Peter is going to have to defend his job by convincing Canadians that Canadian content or protecting Canadian identy is worth the tax payers money we spend on it... Now it is his mistress man this gets dirtier ever minute.... I guess he'll say "is this seat taken Ma'am" when he takes the grey hound bus....but until then why not use the assets available to him which cost the tax payers money even if they sit on the ground, because we want pilots to maintain their qualifications...which means flying..not a DND rule but a governmental one...change the rule and poof you have a case...of course we also have pilots that may not be up to par...but hey we are saving money and guess what the Gen is finding another mode of transport....maybe a F-18...maybe his bike... I say we start with welfare....and stomp out all those that don't really need it....or uneployment....to seasonal workers...who only made 150 k last year during the lobster season....and spends the rest of the year on pogy...

Perhaps i'm a retard but i'm not getting this trading in US dollar thing....i purchase alot of thing in the US on e bay i pay in US dollars or what is equilant in Canadian dollars....i did not have to purchase any US currency, just it's value compared to what currency i'm using.... It does not explain the other piont is the US or any coalition memeber getting Iraqi oil for free or for less than OPEC pricing....if not then why should i have Empathy for our Arab / muslim brothers if their nation gets paid for their oil at world market prices, how are we stealing it....and how is it our problem if their nation can not share the wealth....how is that my fault, and how does that give them a right to fly planes into the towers...I'm confused... a couple of hundred troops does not make an invasion force, it barely makes a training team....NATO will not put boots on the ground unless requested....but that does not matter does it, NATO will be seen as a invasion force, and punished by extremist anyways....including by our own country men....i don't think they are ready to get burned twice....