Army Guy

"As your aware", you'll have to excuse me Waldo but that's not a source....That's you and me not knowing...Hence why I asked the question in my post you responded to.... Like I said, I can find plenty of sources stating that the 500 mil was approved by the Harper government...I had also said I could not find a source that the work had been started, or completed....that was until you feed me your source.... You presume that the LT Col has not meet his dead line, to identify the required work that needs to be done, you also presume that the work is not being done at this very minute.....Once again other than your source I have found nothing that states the work has been or has not been done, of course why would it be announced to be completed because it has until 2021 to be completed... And no it has nothing to do with the F-35, if it is not ready by then "still 5 years out mind you"....Then a fair competition will rule it out, And while it is die hard fans of the F-35 that will remain positive that 5 years is more than enough, given the fact that project has come along ways in the last 5 years....But it does not remain a fact....so hopefully it is up to the challenge in 5 years time.... Purchasing an interim aircraft makes sense if we could afford one than one type of airframe....we can barely afford 65 of one type....But we still have plenty of time to hit reset on this project....it is what Canadians wanted after all a fair competition, a fly off to decide this once and for all....Now that would be a wonderful concept.....

It is not "me" who put me on that track it was "you", or have you forgotten already, I had posted that I could find lots of sources that had stated that the ELE for 2025 had been approved but none that had said the work had been started or completed.... to which you posted this....Perhaps my reading comprehension is not up to speed, but does this not suggest that the ELE for 2025 has been approved, and work is under way and to be completed by 2021.....which would also mean the new figure would be 2025.... That is your post is it not....number 1069.... Now your saying none of that ever happened, funding was not approved in 2014, nor is any of the Lt Col work done, and the aircraft have not received any additional work to them. To which if true, all that needs to be done is spend 500 mil get the upgrades done, no more time issues, enough to do a fair competition....

Maybe , and this would be a novel idea.....we let the Military decide on what equipment it needs and wants....and have government control the amount of funding it is willing to spend that year....

Are you saying there is no federal responsibilities in either by the federal government.....why do we have health and education ministers then....why do we have a national medical care system.....why are there so much transferred tax payers dollars....

Regardless if there is still issues with the F-35, we don't have to make a purchase right now," despite the liberals claim time is running out and there will be a capabilities gaps"...... our Current CF-18 is good until 2025, and in case the Liberals are not aware this year is 2016, 9 years away....And to those Anything but F-35 crowd..... where will the F-35 be in this time....it will be flying in many air forces around the world...that's where... Except Canada, where we will be flying the super Hornet , purchased on a sole source contract, an illegal contract, pushed through by our "sunny ways" liberals....A contract that will not be costed out to the 40 year mark, to balloon the price, one that will not meet any of the requirements demanded by liberals or NDP's for the f-35 purchase.....which will be laughed at by liberal supporters, and forgotten by Canadian tax payers long before an election is called.... Once again the military will get a piece of equipment they don't want, does not meet all the specs they where asking for, specs that would mean giving our pilots the edge in combat....but who cares its just some air force guy we'll get more if we have to their cheap, or cheaper than buying the right equipment....

No it is time for Canadians to have a talk with all our politicians , about wasting valuable time in parliament on issues that do nothing for this nation, or it's people. When our nation has so many serious issues to contend to....But nobody wants to tackle them because it might loose them some support or offend someone, some where.... There should be someone who vets all this bills, and when a bill comes in like this one, that person should be loaded on a catapult and flung out to sea. we could broad cast it on national media...so all the good idea fairies out there will get the picture...... We as tax payers pay these people very good money to run this nation, and show the leadership required to do so.....and when all the major issues are handled then we can on with changing the cross walk signs because they are not gender friendly, or the signs on the bathrooms because they are not gender friendly.....How about we tackle health care issues, or education....the list goes on and on....but shit they won't pad a resume like I changed a word in our national anthem will they....

Crises averted then, plenty of time to make the hard choices. And run a real competition everything is coming up roses.... Except a few questions remain. Does the Liberals have a leak ? If this was just talks around the table how did the media get ahold of it, unless if it was than just talk but actual plan was made......or where they testing the waters to see if they could bully their way through an interim purchase...And if it was a plan did anyone think about asking the Military for an opinion or at least bringing them on the same page... I was not a big fan on how the Cons handled DND purchase projects, but it is starting to look like more of the same from the liberals, How can we keep the military happy while not spending anything on it....

Perhaps the confusion is on my part, however your reference comes right after remarks made about the legality of making the purchase. "its just an upgrade" And yet they ( government purchase regulations) are clear, on their use of word upgrades, meaning a modification or upgrade of existing vehs or equipment do not need to follow the competition regulations. But as you stated this can not be done to existing airframes but rather would require a purchase of new aircraft....meaning it would have to run a competition in order to be legal. just so we are clear "no sole sourcing" The excuse of Time is running out,( 2021) or we will have a capability issue has been proven false....one could only assume that the liberals handling of this new found direction of theirs is no better than harpers. To be fair, I have found lots of sources stating that the ELE Life extension) 2025 was approved, by the Harper government. And could not find any sources that states these modifications had been completed. Which does not surprise me, as Military spending was frozen prior to election, and might have been overlooked by our new masters...or like many ongoing projects canceled , funding with held by the same government. So now the current ELE deadline would be 2020. which has caused some panic once DND reminded them about it.... When really all that needs to be done is the current government push to have these 400 mil mods done....giving them lots of time to select the CF's new fighter.

Maybe instead of making suicide universal acceptable, maybe we should learn to treat the effects that drive people to suicide first..

And what about those individuals that are troubled, or have mental issues, that think the only way out of their dark world is to end it all, and yet most of these people can receive medical help and live a normal life again....Do we give them the option....

So you don't have faith in the liberals addressing the replacement of the F-18 project in time, and there will not be any replacements forth coming to off set the reduction of availability of the F-18.... The introduction of a second platform as an interim aircraft in a element that is already cash strapped is a stop gap measure at best, one that will only add bils to the new replacement, but also increase operational costs....does that make sense.... But the more I think about it, this is all just a backdoor measure to keep the liberal promises by not purchasing the F-35....instead it will purchase a few super hornets and call it a day, the funding put aside for the f-35 will be diverted to the ship building program, another win for the liberals.....because that is what important here a check mark in the win column not what is in the best interest of our nation or its military.

actually the 77 CF-18 hornets are still good until 2020...the upgrades bring the remainder to 2025, just 5 years...with hopefully new aircraft arriving between 2020 and 2025....so what is the big panic again...

So the liberals and you are discounting the other upgrade program extending life to 2025....Because of problems with tending..... As you have said before Can't the liberals you know fix that....It has been on the books for years...fixing the procurement issues.....

Not sure where you got your numbers, mine show 77 operational CF-18 as of today.

Below is a DND statement defining the life extension programs.... forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs/next-gen-fighter-cf18-estimated-life-expectancy.page Below is media reports detailing the approval of the ELE program taking the current fleet to 2025..... http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/cf-18-aircraft-extension-to-2025-will-mean-extra-maintenance-costs-for-rcaf Another source in case you did not like the other one. www.cbc.ca/news/politics/extending-cf-18-lifespan-to-cost-about-400-million-report-1.2869532

Where is the Liberals getting their information from, Can't be DND, when as derek stated they just informed the public last month all our F-18 are good until 2025. How is an interim purchase of aircraft going to help the RCAF right now, If our current fleet is good to 2025, as DND says it is.....Sounds like a massive diversion...a half ass attempt at solving a major military issue that has been a thorn in the sides of many government parties...If we have the time and energy to make an interim purchase why not push for the full meal deal.....run the competition and make a commitment.....

Sorry for the confusion, The F-18 E/F were purchased to replace the F-14's....However my point was that the US navy already had plenty of older F-18 in inventory, why did they not simply "upgrade" them to the new E/F standard, because they could not....They are two different aircraft.

I have read it and I'm having issues with your sudden change of heart over the procurement rules, what was once bad for the cons is now good for the Libs....And perhaps your concern was not so much over the party, but the Aircraft itself... I personally like the interim aircraft direction, but it needs to be done right or it turns into the political football nobody wants to touch and the only ones that end up suffering in the end is the troops that use the equipment.... I think the Air force see's the writing on the wall, as long as the liberals are in charge there is no F-35...not in the next 4 years, or in the next 8 if the liberals remain in power....So they are willing to grasp at any straw or life line the government wants to throw at them....Since the article fails to mention any specifics weather it is a good deal or not has yet to be seen....

That would depend on the definition of upgrade would it not...and hear I thought upgrade meant taking an existing airframe and improving upon it. Can you use CF-18 and upgrade them to super hornets....I don't think so, and why did the us navy retire it's older F-18's instead of upgrading them to Super hornets, just a question to ponder ? The super Hornet is a totally different aircraft, that happens to share a common name....that's it...which would require at least a competition to find the right aircraft for the job and be subjected to the same rules and regulations. Same as we did for replacing the Leo tanks.

So your saying time is running out to upgrade current Canadian F-18 fleet, which has to be completed by 2021...to keep aircraft flying to 2025. AT the cost of 500. mil.... Where my confusion lies is this .....The liberals are proposing purchasing an interim aircraft to avoid paying out for upgrades...and buy more time to correctly decide on the F-18 replacement...Is that that the message your conveying.

So what you are implying here, is the current rules and regulations don't mean squat if you plans to purchase equipment on an interim basis or to bridge another future purchase.....I looked at all your links, and did not see anything that states what you are saying....what it does say you can proceed if you are purchasing more of the same aircraft, or type...But the CF18 and Super hornet are two very different aircraft, that share only a partial name with old F-18....How do you draw that line to think they could purchase super hornets without some sort of competition....I mean who choose the super hornet anyway, some school kid in the liberal cabinet, or the Air force was thrown a bone, take it or leave it sort of proposal..... And why NOW....the last upgrade was to have F-18 flying until 2025, so why do we need to act right now....

And yet you refused to believe that our policies then and today are not influenced by the Christian religion.....and yet we have had laws and policies on topics that are based or have a direct line drawn from Christian religious beliefs.... Such as abortion laws, are you denying we as a nation never had laws or policies that restricted abortions ? Laws that were also held as important morals and created some of values that surround that topic.... Here is a few more.... Capital punishment, went again'st Christian beliefs and was over turned to reflect those values among other reasons..... Polygamy , is still again'st the law, also happens to be against Christian values.... Other values and morals Canadian have that have a direct link to the Christian religion.....Marriage in a church.... Baptisms of children..... You want more try goggle , it's easy.... I don't recall saying God is supreme in Canada, it is however written in the first sentence of our constitution why is that.....if it is not an influence on our values and morals.....and how is it not reflected in our constitution ? Yes only secular nations or individuals can have freedom of religion, and yet the Vatican has supported this concept before it became popular with the UN it was also one of the many institutions to support it with in the UN making it a basic human right.....How can they support it if it is not a value they hold near and dear....You don't have to invent the concept to hold those values....Unless you can prove or source it is not a Christian value ? Your right none of our policies ,laws, or rights are based on anything from the Christian religion.....and yet those holidays are religious holidays we forgot that, one not shared with any other religion....but yet is is impossible to draw a line between the Christian religion and Canadian policies, morals and values....I thinking your just not trying....

No, but you made it about me, by calling me out on it...when perhaps instead of all this song and dance you could have asked for an explanation instead you feign to be insulted.....when you knew exactly what I meant. I thought it was very clear. That being said it was not my intention to degrade the importance of these issues, "which our nation has Struggled to resolve" We pay these MP's a king ransom to make critical decisions for our nation and our sake and all three parties have shown they are not up to the task, and instead play childish games at our expense.

Your taking the word plague out of context...It was not my intention to say these issues where a plague on the nation.... My intention was "these issues have Plagued the nation for many years".....Perhaps a poor choice of words, everyone else got it except you.... but our nation has "struggled" with these issues for a long time....

Good question, how about we start with the opening sentence. of the CONSTITUTION ACT, 1982. found here ://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law: The above statement is a huge indicator that religion plays a role in our guiding principles, and given that not that long ago the majority of Canadians were Christians, and took their religion a lot more serious than we do today. It is bound to have an impact in our policies , Morals and values that are still reflected today. Some scholars have said that Canada was built by Christians but not built to be Christian only. For example freedom of religion, All Canadians are free to practice any recognized religion they want, what I mean by that is one can not just make up a religion that would provide benefits to an individual or small group, like the guy in Ontario that wanted to wear a colander on his head for a drivers lic picture... And yet we still have Christian national holidays, we do not have any other religious national holidays, just Christian...Citizens are free to celebrate any other religious holidays providing they take time off...Now this Christian holidays have become more of just a day off for most Canadians than a religious day of worship, I get that but this is an example of Christian influence in our country...there are plenty more all one has to do is look... I did not say all of our policies are directly tied to Christianity, as a nation we are slowly moving away from our religion, but on the other hand one can not simple say, they do not exist. God is mentioned in our national anthem, Not that long ago, the lords prayer was recited every morning after the national anthem, many children went to Sunday school...and did so for many years, stores were not open on sunday a day of rest, which is still law in some areas... but like I have said we as a nation are moving on, and religion is taking a lessor role on our society....but the Christian influence is still there....