Army Guy

Then stop bitching about it....and get on board the train....

I think the north American people are just to blame as the corps....people don't give a rats ass if children working 20 hours a day in deplorable conditions to make their favorite jeans cheaper.....they want their stuff for the cheapest price.....it is what our market is based on, hard to lecture about human rights and good morals and values when you break it down we never had them in the first place....Our world is turned by the green back nothing else....

You miss the point completely, AK -47 was the wpn of chioce by the mohawks , and the mohawks only.....QPP were using American made wpns….Cpl Lemay was shot and killed by a Mohawk warrior end of story....while Cpl Lemay was carrying out his duty as a police officer....So lets not pretend your some kind of police forensic expert, and are able to judge by the point of impact that it was not a mohawk bullet, because thats bullshit....when they were the only people there with AK-47, and nobody cares about tear gas into the wind it is a moot point, meant to distract... Lets not forget the QPP are not trained in this type of operations, they did what they could do, and paid for it in Causalities…. WTF is your point, yes a girl was accidentally stabbed by a bayonet while her sister was being taken down and arrested. it was tragic, funney how nobody is talking about WHY a 4 year old and a 14 year old were there in the first place, and not for a couple of days but for the full 78 days of the siege by our military.....who were there Not there to hand out blankets and teddy bears but to put down an armed resurrection ..Now in case they were confused, or doubted the military resolve , they had tanks , Armoured fighting vehs, helos, F-18 flying above, Self propelled arty, the entire Airborne Regt, and many more soldiers.....There for one reason....Once the government decided they had enough they would order the military to use force to end this , up to and including deadly force.. WTF did you think was going to happen when that day came....It was a miracle that things turned out as well as it did...and thats contributed to the professionalism of our soldiers, and the fact the warriors were scared stiff at the time of the take down.... Lets be clear about a few things Police officers and Soldiers are not responsible to uphold your constitutional rights...they swear allegiance to the Queen, not to the Canadian government or it's people, and in this case the Queen did not intervene, she never has..... they also swear to defend the country from enemies foreign or domestic. in this case Mohawk warriors were declared to be the bad guys....by the Liberals , ya the good old liberals....A couple of other things, we don't work for you....we work for the country of Canada, and it's elected government , and if you find yourself on the wrong end of the law, your going to be put down hard.....You pay the bills and that it....and your right we don't pick sides, the government gets to do that....

You've had some pretty crazy posts, but this one takes the Cake....Canadians have had enough of the Trudeaus for a life time....lets leave it at that.

One would think that life would become that more easier right. But it also brings up a couple of questions like how many jobs here in Canada are dependent on foreign trade ? , lets talk about the elephant in the room "China"....that pretty much makes everything in the world, and why is that, big fat Canadians companies like the color of money as well, so much that they move jobs and industry to china to make billions more, how do you have these guys move all that back ? ....So my last question how much are we willing to pay for our rules, morals, and values ? ..... do we keep todays status quo, or risk it all to feel good about ourselves…. last time I checked feeling good does not pay the bills nor does it feed our families.

Loyalty and aggression are good qualities in an Infanteer, but these traits have to be balanced with all of the rest of them in order to make a well rounded soldier, one that can take a life, with out blinking but also recognize an unlawful order and stand up to it. you bring up many good points, ones that I might not have considered if left to my own devices, for that I enjoy our conversations. And your right no rank on the intra net, just comrads in arms who share the love of the job, Pro Patria.

We both know where the bread is buttered,and who we swear allegiance too, and if your going to wait for the crown to take some action or issue orders for the military to stand down, you'll have to wait a long time....in todays world those are just words, and would take a huge incident for the crown to take action , or intervene. until then our only option is to quit, and you know what that brings with it....

whats a Royal to do, stand to attention, barks yes sir......gets on the bus , cleans his rifle.....hopes he makes it back to his family

your right, but Robert went crying to Crietien and he rallied the troops, and while we don't serve mr crietien directly, he still pulls the strings...and the GG stood by silently.....

Thanks you for your service Mohawks, but that prt of history is over, shit today Canada's military are still fighting the government over what is owed to them, so no special consideration for the mohawks....you bring a gun fight to the government and it will respond with even more force. end of story.

Regardless of what the QPP did or did not do, there still remains the fact that the Mohawks took an armed stance, no one in Canada can take an armed stance to protect anything in this country....with out there being consequences….and in this case there was very little,

I am sorry I lumped you in with all the peace niks and tree huggers, but you'll have to admit , bar a massive earth quake that sucks them types into the ocean BC is not going to change, and thats their right to do so, but the rest of us should not be held hostage to their whims....thats why I suggested cutting the funding for all federal projects in BC and spend that money out east....NB would love to have Alberta oil gushing into our province....we'd love the jobs and extra funding....

Well I found a source that comes from an indigenous news paper , and they seem to think your wrong, below is some of the facts according to the connersreport, the slug came from a AK-47, Police were not using any Warsaw pack wpns at the time....As for you back story can't find anything about it in any source, but in this case it is Highly unlikely. My obsession with fire arms ….your missing the point here, the fact they did bring automatic wpns to oka was to show what exactly, that they had a nice collection, or was it to show they police they were armed and willing to use them....add to the fact that a lot of these Mohawks had military service in either the US or Canadian military proving that they were capable of using them....The same result would have hapened had these guys all been white, blue of green with purple strips, the police are going to use force as one of the tools available, now you kill one of their officers in the an action meant to regain control of the situation and it is only going to get escalated , in this case the military was brought in.... the fact that no fire arms have not been used since has NO bearing on this incident at all, nor does the fact that police have used deadly force after the fact...wasted space and ban width. The shooting death of a Quebec provincial police officer during the 1990 confrontation at Oka, Que. was deliberate, concluded coroner Guy Gilbert in a 500-page report released Aug. 17. Gilbert ruled the AK-47 assault rifle that fired the shot which killed Cpl. Marcel Lemay, July 11, 1990 was held by a Mohawk Warrior whose intention was to kill. The round could in no way have come from the officer's own weapon or from another officer's gun, said Gilbert. At least six warriors in the woods that day had weapons that could have fired the shot, but the coroner was unable to identify the shooter. He did write, however, the order to fire was given by Mitchell Deer as suggested by another Mohawak, Dennis Nicholas. Other Mohawk leaders identified in the report were Denis David, Francis Boots, John Denis Cree, Eba Beauvais, Kenneth Deer and Paul Delaronde. The sniper was likely lying on his stomach and supporting the weapon with his elbows when the shot was fired. Lemay was standing still and pointing with his left hand. The bullet entered an area below the corporal's left armpit. The ammunition used was manufactured for military sharpshooters and couldn't have been sopped by Lemay's bullet-proof vest. The coroner's inquest heard from 125 witnesses over a period of 138 days during 18 months. The resulting report was critical of both the Quebec and federal governments for their actions leading up to and during the 78-day stand-off. https://ammsa.com/publications/windspeaker/report-finds-mohawk-warrior-responsible-policemans-death

I don't buy that....they may have been right according to the law.....OKA could have gone the other way as well, shots fired, lots of casualties, so yes they be right , but they would be dead as well...It should have all played out in the courts, not on some golf course....

Omar got ripped off , he did'nt get the poetry lessons, or the arts classes...

While the mohawks are Canada's first people that does not make them above the law, when they arm themselves and break the law , bad stuff happens.... the men and women enforcing that law are always going to take the blame...thats a fact, it's a shitty job but someone has to do it....

I get your point, for the natives they were right and the feds were wrong, did not stop them from getting forced to the ground, searched and zap strapped until the area was secured...did not stop the feds playing this out for months....like someone said can't fight city hall. I think the natives already knew what you can do or can not do with a firearm...at that point in time I don't think the natives really cared ,the fact they killed an police officer is proof of that....once it got to this point, I don't think it could have been stopped...

A lot if things have changed since then, when we went to BC to provide protection for the Olympics, we were not to have our 25 mm guns mounted, our LAVS could be used only to transport RCMP officers, NO LMG's or GPMGs , M203 were brought, to offensive, we did have C-7 and 9 mm and were warned if we had to fire not on full auto, one aim shot per target, unless they were still a threat....no double tapping...infact while working inside the venues, no uniforms at all, only uniforms while on patrols in the back 40, and even then we had to have RCMP at all times because we did not have powers of arrest. So things are much different today...mind you we have not had another OKA, so who knows.

Not sure if they were corrupt or not, but they have a mandate as well , given to them by provincial and federal laws. RCMP have been making arrest on Indian land for many years now..this is not new...Anyways resisting or defending yourself is a good way to suicide by cop...Don't hate the players hate the game....Cops, Military all want to go home to the wife and kids to....so when it comes down to you or them,

My bad CSOR it is, This is not the first time the Military has been used again'st the Canadian people, going way back to the riel uprising, many times during the conscription crises during WWI, so their was a precedence, First the Quebec courts had ruled against the Mohawks, the province ordered the QPP in to open up the road blocks, and one officer was killed, the province ask for and received military assistance to contain the area....as it dragged on with no end in site the feds ordered DND in, the airborne came in through the back, and a small mech force came in the front door...Now for the legality of it all not sure, but some how mr Cretien did not or has not served any time, or face the courts... I doubt very much that DND would kill on site any one armed, and not a threat, you know how that works, ....That being said, when the government gave the order for the road blocks to be removed and certain individuals arrested, it would have only taken one shot from their side to release the hounds so to speak, DND would have responded in kind, but it would have been over whelming force...remember the entire area was smoked out...nobody could see shit, except though thermal, once the smoke started to dissipate, the airborne were already outside of their HQ/ mess hall. So there was great potential for mass casualties, or things to get way out of control. I think it was professionalism on DND part, and the fact the mohawks were scared shitless..

Because a QPP Officer was killed in their botched raid....and mr Crietien had to be the man, and save face...Nobody was gung ho, everyone knew what is meant to be there, but also everyone knew what the consequence's were going to be if it went bad...

Yes they did but only well after the incident had played out, remember this thing went on for over a couple of months, and the PM did authorize force if required, hence the Airborne, and all the intimidation tactics, fast air, helos, tanks ripping up and down the roads... I'm glad it ended the way it did, had there been gun play, there would have been lots of casualties on the mohawk side...an Airmobile plus mech thrust would have chewed them up....there would still be unrest today....Back in the day the CAR was todays equivalent of CSOAR, besides I think having the Airborne there was over kill, why use a hammer when you could have used a surgical strike...As for mandate, everything was green lite right up to the big guy...

Sorry I'm with Argus on this one, All the Mohawks at oka were no more than armed thugs in camo, maybe a few ring leaders had some training, the rest just young men from the reserve, no match for a 19 year old Canadian Infantry soldier with a few years of training.......The fact that the Airborne did mange to overwhelm all their positions including those dug in positions in double quick time, without a shot fired speaks to that, I'm pretty sure a couple companies of Vandoos could have done the same thing, and you know how much I like those guys........lets not forget, they also had a few M113, M109 SPG, Leo tanks , Helos, some Airborne, and some fast air to intimidate them. I think CSOAR would have these guys for lunch....Regardless of what wpns they had when that leo with the dozer blade went through that road block across the road that was the sound of the end... after that all you could hear was the sound of people running through the woods..Thats not the sounds of professionals but people scared shitless...

What a load of horse crap jacee, Canadian government has been dealing with native Americans for centuries now, and everything was fine until all the payments were handed out , pipe line companies had all the checks in the boxes, and boom another check is needed.......and wait one minute we forgot about old joe and his cousin marry, the witch doctor, tribal dentist/ doctor/dog breeder he has a say as well........How many layers does it take to get a pipeline built, everyone's pockets must not be filled by now.... What should be happening right now, going back and collecting all that money they paid out, and tell them when you grow up we will come back....Environment my ass this is all about money...how many liters of raw sewage does victory, Vancouver, pump into the ocean every day....How many tons of pollutants does their pulp and paper industry pump into the rivers and streams. the man with the suit case full of money needs to pack up and head some where else....and when fuel for their vehs reaches 3 bucks a liter.....I bet they sing a new tune.... This is just one more stalling technique...I say take that 40 bil project and move it to the east coast, we like jobs, and we love to burn fuel as well....let them tree huggers and the Natives tell it to someone else.... No sabre rattling, just time to put the boot down....or leave with all them jobs....

Your right every nation has a dark past, including yours. Stop doing the Canadian thing and point fingers or make excuses........take ownership.... It is history and can not be changed....savages, infidels who cares right it all serves the same purpose to make killing easier right.... Once again this is where our cultures differ, perhaps if you'd like we could look at what is or was acceptable in the Islamic world, female gentile mutilation, women do not deserve to feel pleasure, women can not go outside without an escort, up until recently could not drive, in some cases they are treated as property and have no rights at all, can be killed to protect the honor of the family without recourse, removing hands for stealing, killing your wife over adultery, with or with out proof, be stoned to death in public for various crimes, be beaten with whips for showing a small piece of ankle...i'll stop I think you get the point....I'll make one more, Why does the west have so many Muslim immigrants if it is such a treat to live in the Islamic world... If you , your nation or your religion is not up for some criticism , one must ask why not ? one can not improve upon something with out some outside advise, unless we are beneath you, and do not deserve to be heard....and if that is the case, why are you here on a Canadian forum to state your case.