Army Guy

Loyalty and aggression are good qualities in an Infanteer, but these traits have to be balanced with all of the rest of them in order to make a well rounded soldier, one that can take a life, with out blinking but also recognize an unlawful order and stand up to it. you bring up many good points, ones that I might not have considered if left to my own devices, for that I enjoy our conversations. And your right no rank on the intra net, just comrads in arms who share the love of the job, Pro Patria.

We both know where the bread is buttered,and who we swear allegiance too, and if your going to wait for the crown to take some action or issue orders for the military to stand down, you'll have to wait a long time....in todays world those are just words, and would take a huge incident for the crown to take action , or intervene. until then our only option is to quit, and you know what that brings with it....

whats a Royal to do, stand to attention, barks yes sir......gets on the bus , cleans his rifle.....hopes he makes it back to his family

your right, but Robert went crying to Crietien and he rallied the troops, and while we don't serve mr crietien directly, he still pulls the strings...and the GG stood by silently.....

Thanks you for your service Mohawks, but that prt of history is over, shit today Canada's military are still fighting the government over what is owed to them, so no special consideration for the mohawks....you bring a gun fight to the government and it will respond with even more force. end of story.

Regardless of what the QPP did or did not do, there still remains the fact that the Mohawks took an armed stance, no one in Canada can take an armed stance to protect anything in this country....with out there being consequences….and in this case there was very little,

I am sorry I lumped you in with all the peace niks and tree huggers, but you'll have to admit , bar a massive earth quake that sucks them types into the ocean BC is not going to change, and thats their right to do so, but the rest of us should not be held hostage to their whims....thats why I suggested cutting the funding for all federal projects in BC and spend that money out east....NB would love to have Alberta oil gushing into our province....we'd love the jobs and extra funding....

Well I found a source that comes from an indigenous news paper , and they seem to think your wrong, below is some of the facts according to the connersreport, the slug came from a AK-47, Police were not using any Warsaw pack wpns at the time....As for you back story can't find anything about it in any source, but in this case it is Highly unlikely. My obsession with fire arms ….your missing the point here, the fact they did bring automatic wpns to oka was to show what exactly, that they had a nice collection, or was it to show they police they were armed and willing to use them....add to the fact that a lot of these Mohawks had military service in either the US or Canadian military proving that they were capable of using them....The same result would have hapened had these guys all been white, blue of green with purple strips, the police are going to use force as one of the tools available, now you kill one of their officers in the an action meant to regain control of the situation and it is only going to get escalated , in this case the military was brought in.... the fact that no fire arms have not been used since has NO bearing on this incident at all, nor does the fact that police have used deadly force after the fact...wasted space and ban width. The shooting death of a Quebec provincial police officer during the 1990 confrontation at Oka, Que. was deliberate, concluded coroner Guy Gilbert in a 500-page report released Aug. 17. Gilbert ruled the AK-47 assault rifle that fired the shot which killed Cpl. Marcel Lemay, July 11, 1990 was held by a Mohawk Warrior whose intention was to kill. The round could in no way have come from the officer's own weapon or from another officer's gun, said Gilbert. At least six warriors in the woods that day had weapons that could have fired the shot, but the coroner was unable to identify the shooter. He did write, however, the order to fire was given by Mitchell Deer as suggested by another Mohawak, Dennis Nicholas. Other Mohawk leaders identified in the report were Denis David, Francis Boots, John Denis Cree, Eba Beauvais, Kenneth Deer and Paul Delaronde. The sniper was likely lying on his stomach and supporting the weapon with his elbows when the shot was fired. Lemay was standing still and pointing with his left hand. The bullet entered an area below the corporal's left armpit. The ammunition used was manufactured for military sharpshooters and couldn't have been sopped by Lemay's bullet-proof vest. The coroner's inquest heard from 125 witnesses over a period of 138 days during 18 months. The resulting report was critical of both the Quebec and federal governments for their actions leading up to and during the 78-day stand-off. https://ammsa.com/publications/windspeaker/report-finds-mohawk-warrior-responsible-policemans-death

I don't buy that....they may have been right according to the law.....OKA could have gone the other way as well, shots fired, lots of casualties, so yes they be right , but they would be dead as well...It should have all played out in the courts, not on some golf course....

Omar got ripped off , he did'nt get the poetry lessons, or the arts classes...

While the mohawks are Canada's first people that does not make them above the law, when they arm themselves and break the law , bad stuff happens.... the men and women enforcing that law are always going to take the blame...thats a fact, it's a shitty job but someone has to do it....

I get your point, for the natives they were right and the feds were wrong, did not stop them from getting forced to the ground, searched and zap strapped until the area was secured...did not stop the feds playing this out for months....like someone said can't fight city hall. I think the natives already knew what you can do or can not do with a firearm...at that point in time I don't think the natives really cared ,the fact they killed an police officer is proof of that....once it got to this point, I don't think it could have been stopped...

A lot if things have changed since then, when we went to BC to provide protection for the Olympics, we were not to have our 25 mm guns mounted, our LAVS could be used only to transport RCMP officers, NO LMG's or GPMGs , M203 were brought, to offensive, we did have C-7 and 9 mm and were warned if we had to fire not on full auto, one aim shot per target, unless they were still a threat....no double tapping...infact while working inside the venues, no uniforms at all, only uniforms while on patrols in the back 40, and even then we had to have RCMP at all times because we did not have powers of arrest. So things are much different today...mind you we have not had another OKA, so who knows.

Not sure if they were corrupt or not, but they have a mandate as well , given to them by provincial and federal laws. RCMP have been making arrest on Indian land for many years now..this is not new...Anyways resisting or defending yourself is a good way to suicide by cop...Don't hate the players hate the game....Cops, Military all want to go home to the wife and kids to....so when it comes down to you or them,

My bad CSOR it is, This is not the first time the Military has been used again'st the Canadian people, going way back to the riel uprising, many times during the conscription crises during WWI, so their was a precedence, First the Quebec courts had ruled against the Mohawks, the province ordered the QPP in to open up the road blocks, and one officer was killed, the province ask for and received military assistance to contain the area....as it dragged on with no end in site the feds ordered DND in, the airborne came in through the back, and a small mech force came in the front door...Now for the legality of it all not sure, but some how mr Cretien did not or has not served any time, or face the courts... I doubt very much that DND would kill on site any one armed, and not a threat, you know how that works, ....That being said, when the government gave the order for the road blocks to be removed and certain individuals arrested, it would have only taken one shot from their side to release the hounds so to speak, DND would have responded in kind, but it would have been over whelming force...remember the entire area was smoked out...nobody could see shit, except though thermal, once the smoke started to dissipate, the airborne were already outside of their HQ/ mess hall. So there was great potential for mass casualties, or things to get way out of control. I think it was professionalism on DND part, and the fact the mohawks were scared shitless..

Because a QPP Officer was killed in their botched raid....and mr Crietien had to be the man, and save face...Nobody was gung ho, everyone knew what is meant to be there, but also everyone knew what the consequence's were going to be if it went bad...

Yes they did but only well after the incident had played out, remember this thing went on for over a couple of months, and the PM did authorize force if required, hence the Airborne, and all the intimidation tactics, fast air, helos, tanks ripping up and down the roads... I'm glad it ended the way it did, had there been gun play, there would have been lots of casualties on the mohawk side...an Airmobile plus mech thrust would have chewed them up....there would still be unrest today....Back in the day the CAR was todays equivalent of CSOAR, besides I think having the Airborne there was over kill, why use a hammer when you could have used a surgical strike...As for mandate, everything was green lite right up to the big guy...

Sorry I'm with Argus on this one, All the Mohawks at oka were no more than armed thugs in camo, maybe a few ring leaders had some training, the rest just young men from the reserve, no match for a 19 year old Canadian Infantry soldier with a few years of training.......The fact that the Airborne did mange to overwhelm all their positions including those dug in positions in double quick time, without a shot fired speaks to that, I'm pretty sure a couple companies of Vandoos could have done the same thing, and you know how much I like those guys........lets not forget, they also had a few M113, M109 SPG, Leo tanks , Helos, some Airborne, and some fast air to intimidate them. I think CSOAR would have these guys for lunch....Regardless of what wpns they had when that leo with the dozer blade went through that road block across the road that was the sound of the end... after that all you could hear was the sound of people running through the woods..Thats not the sounds of professionals but people scared shitless...

What a load of horse crap jacee, Canadian government has been dealing with native Americans for centuries now, and everything was fine until all the payments were handed out , pipe line companies had all the checks in the boxes, and boom another check is needed.......and wait one minute we forgot about old joe and his cousin marry, the witch doctor, tribal dentist/ doctor/dog breeder he has a say as well........How many layers does it take to get a pipeline built, everyone's pockets must not be filled by now.... What should be happening right now, going back and collecting all that money they paid out, and tell them when you grow up we will come back....Environment my ass this is all about money...how many liters of raw sewage does victory, Vancouver, pump into the ocean every day....How many tons of pollutants does their pulp and paper industry pump into the rivers and streams. the man with the suit case full of money needs to pack up and head some where else....and when fuel for their vehs reaches 3 bucks a liter.....I bet they sing a new tune.... This is just one more stalling technique...I say take that 40 bil project and move it to the east coast, we like jobs, and we love to burn fuel as well....let them tree huggers and the Natives tell it to someone else.... No sabre rattling, just time to put the boot down....or leave with all them jobs....

Your right every nation has a dark past, including yours. Stop doing the Canadian thing and point fingers or make excuses........take ownership.... It is history and can not be changed....savages, infidels who cares right it all serves the same purpose to make killing easier right.... Once again this is where our cultures differ, perhaps if you'd like we could look at what is or was acceptable in the Islamic world, female gentile mutilation, women do not deserve to feel pleasure, women can not go outside without an escort, up until recently could not drive, in some cases they are treated as property and have no rights at all, can be killed to protect the honor of the family without recourse, removing hands for stealing, killing your wife over adultery, with or with out proof, be stoned to death in public for various crimes, be beaten with whips for showing a small piece of ankle...i'll stop I think you get the point....I'll make one more, Why does the west have so many Muslim immigrants if it is such a treat to live in the Islamic world... If you , your nation or your religion is not up for some criticism , one must ask why not ? one can not improve upon something with out some outside advise, unless we are beneath you, and do not deserve to be heard....and if that is the case, why are you here on a Canadian forum to state your case.

I wish you would also return the favor of sparing us your sanctimonious attitudes, and stereotypes, your post is littered with examples, that are out right lies, or bullshit fabricated to support someone's propaganda, yours or perhaps someone's else. Moral of the story is most westerns don't really care about the KSA, except for the fact your country is one of the friendlier Islamic nations on the planet, not the only one but one of, so nothing special there, Canada as a nation does not have a whole lot of business with the KSA, nothing of any real importance, some oil a few other things . Nothing on the scale of say the USA. Same could be said about Europe...So as one of Islam's shining stars your nation is often held to a higher standard not only by the west but the world...being popular is sometimes a bitch. The only thing I will agree with in your post, is your comments on our current PM, of course I would have added a few more descriptive words, but right on point.But I also wonder could you have posted those same comments in a local KSA forum about your king. Regarding the Islamic world, it as well has achieve many great things, it still does to a certain extent building city marvels out of the desert, impressive....but how many Islamic nations can claim the same things...Not many, I could count them on one hand....and yet how many Islamic nations have used their power and wealth to wage war, or rule with an iron fist... How many Muslim's have turned into barbarians, ruling through sheer terror, torture, how many of your Muslim brothers are at war with your nation today...ISIS is not a western gang of thugs, it traces it's roots back to the Islamic world....Yes we all have our problems , major problems on both sides. I think we can all agree on that. Our left has done nothing except bent over back wards for the Muslim people, to the point it has invited back it's known ISIS terrorist to be reeducated, and give poetry classes to...instead of killing them where the stand. and on the right, there is a large group still carrying anti Islamic prejudices....but you forget about all the Muslims that carry much larger prejudices against all infidels, or westerns, because it is convenient, and it does not support your post, or the propaganda you listen to..….what is it they say hate only breeds more hate....

I've been listening Linda, But when you come on to a forum promising the moon, and thats not democracy, thats just what Canadians let them get away with.....We should be asking the tough questions now before they learn Justins double talk ways, answer all the questions with the same response aaah uhhmmm, ahhh, ummmm

Your right , I assumed your party is going to be like all the rest, promising the moon , as that is the easy part the hard part is delivering on all this core statements your party has put on the table. As you have highlighted a lot of the problems with our nation. My first questions is where is all the funding coming from ? raising taxes, cutting programs and if so what ones... Military: I think for the most part you are right, we do buy a lot of crap, or what is called the cheapest bidder, there are more failures than success stories from this process. Part of that is there is too many fingers in the pie, the purchase policies are to complicated, to many Depts are involved, not enough experienced staff to handle this large contracts, and all of it's moving pieces. To many useless requirements such as the program must be costed out to 40 years, the entire system is broken....but not only for the military, but for every major purchase ie coast guard ships... And nobody has been able to fix it for decades....So what is the magic fix...except scrap it all and start over... Military has been the go to place for government to scrap up a quick couple of bils to make good on other promises ….and over the decades, it has cost the military core capabilities,such as the navies destroyer fleet, our sub fleet, the armies Self propelled arty, air defenses, the list goes on and on.... along with huge infra structure deficit's out of control, some units have been waiting over 20 years for new buildings...Not to mention the aging equipment, each army base has huge fields of parked rusted out , no longer safe for the roads vehs, such as the LSVW, MLVW, HLVW, to the point where most units can not move themselves or there equipment to any operation without robbing other units....NO LSVW, HLVW replacement even on the procurement books, the New MLVW is not due in until 2020, but it is a 9 ton truck, meant to replace a 2 1/2 ton truck....why because there is no funding to buy any more....something as basic as a truck...DND was asked before the liberals come into power how much would it cost to bring up DND to 1990 standards , they replied with well over 200 bil....The liberals have already come out and said we can afford ships or planes not both...all the Liberals campaign promises have been broken, in regards to our military. our Vets; Vets Should never have to sue our government for basic care, nor prove there legs are still blown off every year...Its a disgrace really, for a G-8 nation.....but then again we are asking for more than the liberal government is willing to give.

Don't tell me Dougie , your a dirty Pickly, although I will admit there are better than the Vandoos , but only half as good as the Royals

Same shit different pile...Lots of promises no meat.....want to impress me tell me how your going to mange all of this.......did you discover the magic pill, or maybe the magic weed.....How are you suppose to deliver on something that has eluded the liberals for their entire reign of terror, thats what Canadians want to know....Because no one including the libs or cons have been smart enough to fix all these messes....