Army Guy

From what I have read of her works I do get the impression she is anti military....those comments are very clear in her work, hardly bias opinion. and to place a lot of the blame on DND leadership, and way for the main characters in this conflict, one of those is the PM and his direct office.... it was not my intention to engage in character assignations , but rather to show you her bias. I did use my example from the military Journal, but if you read the entire article they gave it an average review, and thought it could have concentrated on some of the other portions of the conflict and establishment...the review is better than I expected...considering it is a CF publication...I could have used the other organizations but they totally discount her work, and it would not of furthered discussion....

Vance said the centre's creation was significant in that it offered those who have faced misconduct an additional option — beyond the existing chain of command — to report incidents and find support.

It already has that in place and has for along time....any military member can report these type of crimes directly to the RCMP....who will look after investigating, laying of charges etc etc...just like regular citizens in Canada do...

And that is the major fault of the article.......launching a ballistic missile from a vessel brings about a whole host of complexities....launching a ballistic missile and being able to deploy a thermonuclear device into low Earth orbit to generate a NEMP is even more complex .......as I said, you can count on one hand the nations States that are able, and can afford, to do this. I know that you can get EMP from a nuclear wpn going off, and well i'm not an expert, but I thought there was already a device out there that produces EMP without a nuclear explosion.....with out a thermal nuclear device.....

I'm hoping that it won't come to that, but if it did i'm hoping my military training will give me a slight edge over crazed joe citizens.... Don't get me wrong I am not out in my back yard digging a bunker, I will be taking my preparations a look over, and seeing if they can be tightened up alittle...

First off I do want to admit that I have not read the entire book, I have however read dozens of reviews on the book itself, here is what they have to say.... it should also be noted that the book itself was published in 2007, and im sure was not written over night so still very early in the Afghanistan conflict... here is some of there comments: Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute, Royal Canadian Military Institute, Canadian Institute for Strategic Studies, defence lobbyists and corporations, and academics in some way affiliated with defence issues. It seems to be the common theme in most of the reviews I read....a lot of finger pointing and all it of leading to diplomats and the CDS, I makes one wonder who was running what, the PM or the military....and for an organization that was suppose to be calling the shots, it did little to further it's own budget or properly equip it's troops.....One has to make the assumption that their power is very limited as the CDS was always lobby for more funding and better equipment...So the book is to lead us to believe that the entire conflict was run and controlled by the above mentioned people....that is quit a leap for the reader to take.... You claim that the entire book is an insiders look as to the afghan conflict, that Eugene Lang had a seat at the table of most meeting involving the MDND and the CDS or even the PM....I agree he had a seat at the table...but as the books reads , once again it points fingers as if making excuses for the Guys that where suppose to be in charge....of the entire nation...and all of its workings including the foreign policy and workings of the military. Even Eugene had influence over matters in the books, it fails to explain what he did he owns as his and what direction he pushed for.... The information and conversations have been challenged some of them written off completely, but then again it becomes a dick measuring exericise ....so everyone is free to make their own opinion.... some more insight to Janets way of thinking http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/letters/no-such-tradition/article4156716/ SO while Janet gross stein is a professional in her field it does not mean that she is the absolute knowledge of the topic at hand, some of her views point towards are of an anti military stance, that is the message prevalent in this book, where fingers are pointed away from the men who where actually in charge , who we elected to make those tough choices....she makes no mistake in singling out retired Gen Hillier, as he was the author of displacing that vicious rumour that Canadian military had a long standing history as peace keepers....more so than the warriors they have always been....

Now us older guys could adjust pretty rapidly to no power, infact I love going to the cabin , as it has no modern anything, water is drawn from lake, toilet is an outhouse out back, and no power............it's the kids today that would have a mental break down in any such event....last power outage we had was 3 days and I thought I would have to put down my son, and daughters because they were driving me crazy...could not use their phones laptops nothing.....I could not imagine losing everything of power, vehs ,generators, as well.... shit i'm lucky my son knows how to use a shovel....but if they had to walk, or do things by hand....I think I would have to shot myself rather than to listen to their bitching and moaning....

I found your article interesting Argus....which promoted me to do some more reading, seems that it does have some traction with the US government as they have produced some alarming reports as well, in fact it was the them who produced the 90 % death rate..... I remember taking some classes on EMP and it's effects part of my NBCW course a while back, never really paid much attention to EMP portion, as I was concentrating on the stuff that killed you in milliseconds... It is the US governments report that has spun up the prepers and cash in on the latest scare that concerns me....a lot of bad info out there... For what I understand it is not just EMP from a device that is the concern, it also mention solar flares , such as the one that happened in 1924, apparently it was the worse one on record, however at that period of time there was no real reliance on electrical power as there is today....it was said to be of enough strength to seriously knock out most of our todays power grid.... The report goes on to say even the largest device today could be packed into a rocket and launch off the coast....but as everyone has said MAD would be in effect if anything such as that happened, problem being is not with nations, but radical groups with no nation attached to them....that would be a problem.....like a dirty nuke situation....Yes they would cease to exist as every one brought their militaries to bare....but the damage would be done.... from what I have found, is that an EMP burst travels so fast that any equipment such as surge protectors could not react fast enough to stop the massive surge....it would fry everything with the blast radius, plugged in or not, unless shielded by other means , such as a complete electronic shield... not only does it destroy the sensitive electronic components but also fires the wiring as well, to include telephone , power lines, plug ins to all our devices such as toaster, or dvd.....as the wiring acts like an antenna of sorts.... Now they did said it would be impossible to cover the entire US of A, and the effects would decrease the further you traveled from the point of impact , but the entire grid would come down, due to over loading etc....those grids further out would be able to reset....but those that were in the radius would have to rebuild from scratch, replacing all the infra structure such as power lines telephone lines etc.... I do agree that the death rate is way to high, but I can also see our society as we know it knocked to it's knees.....not out but US and Canada would need some help for sure.....it would take some time to bring back law and order....over all I think US citizens would fair a little better in a man eat man world....as they take that prepper thing very serious in a lot of areas....I think what scared me the most about the whole EMP thing is lack of mobility, not being able to get out of the danger zone , unless we walked.... It has made me at least take a second look a at my families preparations for natural or man made disasters.....at least on the food, and water front, along with camping and other survival goodies....I do have a full weeks of food in the house, and 2 weeks of water, but not enough... don't get me wrong still have a lot of military gear around the house, military maps, compasses, clothing made for survival....but way to under prepared for my liking....

I hope so to, I also hope that it carry's across the nation to other depts. and industries...

There is when you paint all of it's members as sexual delinquents, ya there is going to be a problem there....and given the job we ask them to do, yes there is going to be a macho attitude.....you have said you have served where you a sexual delinquent yes or no....I have and I no for a fact that I am not one either.....such much for that theory.... In case you missed the interview....the creation of a new reporting cell, ensures there will be no repercussions....that every report will be investigated and action will be taken.....

There is a new process in place and the CDS has made a commitment to clean it up....it does not happen over night....so before you ripe it apart, give it a chance to work.... This talk of old boys club is not just a military issue, in fact it spans the entire country....every industry, corporation, work place....but once again we have to point fingers at someone.....and this time the military was a standing target....

That's on of the side effects of war Topaz, and it does not matter where the conflict is, what it is about, good or bad, war destroys everything, it brings out the worst in people....The average human being is not built mentally for killing, so it takes a toll..... Yes I would agree many soldiers continued to fight this war because of their brothers in arms.....but their are many reasons, Soldiers took this mission on and called it our own ....because we felt our own nation forgot about us....they could not have been bothered to help us in our time of need.....when we did speak....They brushed us off as governmental puppets......and when you hear it as often as we did, then you start to believe in it....everything we pleaded for , beg for came at the cost of Soldiers lives...uniforms, equipment, more troops, everything that Canada finally agreed to relent to Canadian soldiers had to die , not one or two....but dozens....everything has a price we the soldiers learned that very early....and tax payers dollars has a steep price.... Hard to come to the conclusion that many Canadians were on our side.....Hard to come to the conclusion when many Canadians can't even point to Afghanistan on a map....hard to come to that conclusion when Canadians are not very informed about the mission..... For you it may of been a waste of your portion of your tax dollars, or your time ,having to listen to the endless debates on the mission, how much it cost, how long it was going on, etc, etc you see while you and your family discussed it over the supper meal, myself and thousands like me we on the ground, trying to survive day to day, trying to bring a little piece of Canada over there, improve some lives, make small villages a little safer, ....but for me it was not a waste, for me all that sacrifice will never be a waste....It cant be , because of our small military most soldiers had to serve multi tours, in fact in is more common to see guys with 5 tours than 2 or 3 ....think about what that means to them....and their families, their kids and their spouses....away for 3 years of their lives....so that we could come back and have the citizens of this country slap us in the face and tell us it was all for nothing .....nothing but a waste......of time, money, sweat, blood and tears.... I post this not to shit on you Topaz....but to inform you this is what it is like to hear, that the best years of my live was for nothing...that some of my best friends in the world who had paid the ultimate price , was for nothing....You and the others have the right to print or post what ever you want here....it is your right it is one of your freedoms....I hope in the future you are on our side, I also hope all Canadians come to support their nations military not with a mere bumper sticker or slogan or a YA I do....but that they take our government to task , to ensure soldiers don't have to die to get the uniforms, equipment they need to do the job ....that Canada has asked them to do....that you hold our government to task ensuring vets get the care they need and deserve.....

Is that fact or your opinion.....if it is fact then i'd like to see a source.....

Well big guy you are sure good and jumping to conclusions.....

Yes I know that not all Muslims recognize Sharia law or practice it...What is your point.......That is not what I said, apparently you missed that.... my point was Not all Muslims are happy in Canada, and a lot of them are having issues adjusting to our nation, it's moral values, our culture, etc etc ....And the Khadr family are not the only ones, as you so quickly pointed out......I on the other hand pointed out there has already been conversations in various media outlets on these topics, including the introduction of Sharia law, and many other topics at hand....Why do you think these conversations were even started......do they show concern, or distaste for our culture, or they just trying to improve our culture in some way.... In those conversations they have spoken "they are not happy", they want change..........I also know that we have had this same conversation in Canada before, over and over again, and we have agree to try it out, the example I am thinking off is Native law, which has been approved in some native communities....SO while you and YOUR people have come down hard and said we had that conversation and it is over, done with....and yet their is an example looking right in our face....nothing is done , nothing is written in stone..... No where did I say I was hiding in my closet because I was afraid of the big bad Muslim and they were going to take over...force shiara law on all us folks....that was you voicing your opinion.... Rather I pointed out that they are trying to change our culture, rather than adapt to it, it also points to they are not happy here....Why can't you see that point.....Why because it does not fit into your agenda.....of putting labels on everyone.... but you can't see that because in your mind.... I have already been labeled.....as one of those "YOU PEOPLE" and our fears....or so you say,..... I guess in this country one can not have concerns....as they only fit in the fear category....one can not debate , or run the risk of being a racist.....one can only shut the f*** up and take it all with a smile....whats the point of even having a forum to discuss things if we are going to be force feed our very own thoughts and opinions..... you continue to rant that our concerns , your fears are unfounded, and disregard any facts presented by turn the other cheek crowd..... and yet You and your People refuse to see or take into account what is happening already in Europe....why in Europe because they have been dealing with this a lot longer than we have....and everyone of those European countires are facing THE VERY SAME issues", but here in Canada we sweep those issues aside, that kind of shit does not happen here EH....We know how to do things right eh.....we'll figure it all out later eh...after hockey season eh....pass me my beer eh SO the problem here has to be looked at from all angles, INCLUDING the MUSLIM side of the house for this to work for ALL Canadians....not just YOUR people.....there is a problem and it is not just MY people or so your quote goes....That was not done, we watch a few videos, seen some pictures and jumped right in without any thought or plan.....just an election promise....and now problems are arising , the same issues as what the Europeans are facing.....imagine that.....we all ignore the military solution, we fail to address the problem which is conflict in the middle east, failed on the diplomatic side, military side and now the resettlement side.....Those should be the topic of debate....instead we do what we do best finger point, call everyone names , put them into holes such as racists......Good job.... And while the west is up to it's neck in stirring the pot, and screwing things up....it takes two to do this dance....and Muslim people are the other partner....They need to stand up and take their share of the blame as well, they need to be part of the solution......SO ya everyone is the problem.... For your part Cyber, you can step down from your white horse.....if it is protecting Muslims from other muslims then we have an issue, why just Syrians, when every Islamic country is in some sort of turmoil do we race to protect those people as well .....was that racist sorry....And how do we do that.....you have been a critic of the military option, the other options are not working either.....do we accept them all....or like eyeball says let them sort out their own problems.....tells us oh great white leader of men.....what is the solution .....

Last time I looked the problem was not with young mr khadr, as the member shady pointed out to you it was the Khadr family that has been very vocal or their dislike for our nation.....And as much as I like young omar, he is the only one within his family making an attempt to adjust.... you also dismiss the fact that the Khadr family is not alone in their distaste for our country....who speak of as though there is no issue with Muslims adjusting to Canadian culture, that there is no conversations ongoing about bringing in Shia law, or their unhappiness with western values.....

Well I can tell you this eyeball, sticking your head in the sand and reverting back to your old song and dance of NOT doing nothing, let them sort it out by themselves is not the right direction either....The west has at least stood up and tried to help, be it as it may some of that help has done nothing , or made it worse but at least they are trying to come up with a solution.....Not all their efforts have been in vein.... You make it sound like i'm the leader of some kind of team, I AM NOT , I happen to share some of the same concerns as they do....on many issues, but I am not leading them in any direction....Each and everyone of them is a Canadian citizen, with their own opinions , some of them we share some of them we do not.... Unlike you eyeball if I have nothing to share or add I don't , a lack of response on my part does not mean I agree or disagree.....Not sure what you mean that I should be ashamed , ashamed of what , what I have said or what I have done.....looking back I feel no shame at anything....I may have some regrets, but over all I would do it all over again..... But then again that is your style Eyeball , sit back from your lofty throne and cast doubt on others, others that are taking some type of action.....putting little labels on everyone.....so your world does not fall apart, so you have purpose....Maybe eyeball it is time to come down from the mountain and join history become an active participant some how....

I bet you a years wage there will never be 50,000, nor 40, 30, even 20....thousand..... our cultures are to different to co exist , without both sides sitting down and trying to understand each other....first....and foremost....instead our nation leapt out of the gates without even a plan, sorry we had a plan....to except 25,000 people before year end......election promise........it had to be kept......no matter what .....so we as a nation bashed ahead......all the experts were saying it can't be done in that time frame....we do not have the housing, infra structure to support any of this......our answer to the problem was get them here jam them into hotels closets, any where just get them over here so we don't look like idiots..... they're version of the American dream has been shattered , it does not rain dollars here, it snows instead....there is no free ticket as they heard in the rumour mill.....nope....and now they are getting pissed.....we are getting pissed because they seem ungrateful, they lash out at us we lash out at them.....there will be no stopping until both sides sit down and talk.... For a lot of western nations talk is down, now they are shipping them back.....Germany the savior for all refugees is now said they are filled to capacity...and will send any more back.....western patients are wearing thin....so are the Syrians....it is only going to get worse..... Has our government sat down and come up with a plan, have they sat down with Syrians refugees and asked them what can we do to make this go better..........to get a grip on this problem.....you know it is bad when the private sector has a grip on it.....and the government leading the charge still does not want to help the private sector..... what are we going to regret the whole experience.....

You got what you wanted, someone to say we are no better than they are...Big deal......Yes the west is responsible for their share of the middle eastern affairs..as is the Muslim states, and their people.....so now what Eyeball, the wind is out of your sails, time to go home........and how you got into this debate is beyond me, your fix for the problem was to do nothing, let them fix it...stay out of the region..... No where in my post did I ever seek justifications for what has been done....I did however say we have done a lot for the region, not just militarily..... As for your remarks about being an arm chair historian.....that's rich even for you, atleast I have been part of history, took an active role in it....while you sat at home whining and complaining and telling others I told you so, been telling you that for years.....

Shady has a valid point, Syrian refugees have other factors to deal with that take precedence....such as family security....providing for them....that does not in any way mean they have to like the country they are going to, or for that matter the people within it..... Talk to some of the military guys that went over to assist them getting here, ask them if they were all giggles and smiles....

you can not just brush everyones concerns aside calling them names or placing them in some hole such as racist etc....it all has to be taken into account , before we rush off and do something that we will once again regret in the future

Lets just say for argument sake your right, we as North Americans are no better than those we criticize...we have warts, we've done some things that we are not proud off, as well as practices that not everyone likes or shares.....We after all are human , we bleed red, share the same anatomy, regardless of color , creed, or religion.....So we are all the same.....no more civilized, not superior in any way, but rather equal.... But you can't sit there and not say we have not held out hand to help....One has to ask How many migrants has Canada accepted last year, the year before and so on...How much of our treasure have we spent assisting in humanitarian efforts ? How much blood has this country bled for other states, regardless if our citizens agree with the mission or not, or whether they were good ideas or not, I think they all hade good intentions to start with..... Our history is full of examples....of Canadians helping out others in their time of need, WWI, WWII, Korean war, cold war, hundreds of peace keeping missions, not to mention all of the thousands of humanitarian missions we have assisted on or carried out on our own, via various agencies....once again we have not touched upon the average Canadian citizen that has helped thousands around the world via their own pocket, be it sponsoring children, giving to aid agencies....all in all Canadians are very giving....we tend to forget that.... So when some of it's citizens say we are not comfortable excepting in Muslim persons....to the point our government conceded to taking in whole families, or single women and their families , and of course the prosecuted, gay, Christian and other minorities..... we do so, not because we are racist, we do it because we are concerned, some even frighten....for our way of life, our security, our well being....it does not mean we are not willing to help, but rather want to do it in a way that suits us.....does that make us bad, or racist....if that was true deep down we are all racist..... There are some out there saying this will not happen , your making a big deal out of nothing....maybe so, but it is already happening in Europe , we underestimated what it would take to be successful in bringing all these people to our countries, we are not prepared, both physically and mentally to accept this challenge without some major conflict .....

I will call bullshit one last time to the post " the point you are missing is that there is no "Muslim countries" as a group. They are different from each other as they are from other states..... They're are dozens of states that identify themselves as Muslim or Islamic states....it is not just a western term that balled them up into one category to make our lives easier.....that is how they want to be identified.....A while each may have it's own personality, they are closely bonded by their religion and the moral values that it brings with it....I might add it is these moral values that clash with ours, they do not mix much like oil and water.....In fact they share more of their culture than say western nations share with each other.... Not sure what taking a flight from Dubai to Kabul has to do with anything....I've taken this flight many times in the past, and found that Afghanistan's national airline to be much better than most western airlines....for the service, not so sure on the maintence aspect....but that is the industry they are in, does not mean I would want to move my family there or live there....Nor does it mean their culture is any more tolerate of others.....

Gosthacked: I did mention that the government has masses of info available to it that Joe public does not have access to, that has always been the way , a fact we as citizens know very well, that our government does not share all of it for security reasons or need to know.....I did not say they were not forth coming as to why we were in Afghanistan, they clearly spelled that out, they clear spelled out our mission , our role in that mission, including costing, after action reports on battles, etc you name it they released it....all Joe citizen has to do is look for it.....or have some interest in the subject.... Would I give the government a passing grade for maximising its message to the people "NO" , I would not, the government did not use all media forms available....nor did it track and ensure the accuracy of each news report....after it was reported by various news agencies.......but to blame it not only with the governments message or its release of info,NO not the only problem.... it was how the media reported it....I attended several news releases briefings while I was over there, as part of a security det for the media....of battles or operations I took place in....and what was reported the next day in the media, was not even close.....and yet the media all attended the same briefing, and the story came out dozens of ways....very rarely did they get it right the first time.....hard to get the news when most media agencies did not bother to leave the camp.....there was a few exceptions...that media pers went outside the wire....but not many....they reported news as it happened and told it like it was and most of those were women........the rest of them might as well stayed in Canada... Combine this with Joe publics interest in the topic....and you get the right conditions, most of the public did not give a damn about Afghanistan, or the mission, they could not take the time to inform themselves, and when soldiers began to speak, the brushed them off as government puppets....they did not want to hear any more, they had already formed their opinion...Who do I blame , well you already know that answer.....who do I want making those decisions about where and when to send it's troops....not Joe public who has on many occasions proved not very good stewards of our nations military... I want the guy that has been flooded with all the info they need to make a life and death decision.....

We are talking about to very different cultures here, and there is bound to be clashes.....I served in Germany for 5 years with the military, when it comes to sexuality Germans are very relaxed, so much so that me as a western had to take some time and adjust...places like public swimming pools or bath houses for the most part are unisex, sure there is a few changing rooms but for the most part it is unisex, meaning one large changing rooms, most pools also have a general public area, and areas such as hot and cold sauna's that require no clothing and are unisex....In Baden Baden the entire top floor was NO Clothing area.....it contained juice bars, various hot tubs,saunas, and cold dipping pools...It was normal for entire families to vist and take part in all the pools facilities....it was a normal outing for them...only ones that had problems was outsiders..... I won't get into Germans strip bars or sex houses, topless beaches....but remember it was these people the "refugees" that decided to come to Germany, to enjoy all the benefits it had to offer, and part of that is excepting they are not in kanas anymore toto, every paradise has its warts as well.... regardless if the decision is excepted as right or wrong, racist I highly doubt that....that being said unless Germany changes all these practices to allow refuges to fit in and not be insulted which I don't think will happen....the refugees will have to adapt...and except their new home or go back to Syria....