Army Guy

Nice come back, but is that all you got ...however If your going to post something, you should be able to back it up with some facts, so how about it....

It's not a new secret project there are serveral space based projects for the CDN government as per the site below. My link

Do you always pull facts out your ass, or have you done any research on this at all Comrad....

Canada spends 6.3% of our GDP on Defense ( based on 30 bil) , 17.9 on Health care, 12.7 on Education, and some 30 % or more on Infra struture.... Sorry what was the question again.

War is not Politics, but rather the Lack of or failure of...Other than approving of National interests and national objectives thier involvement is rather limited....Don't kid your self...if you think the tax payer has got any say in a total war situation IE like WWII was and when the Gen says bomb them ....they get bombed and you as a tax payer keeps paying and dying until someone says uncle.... Once the politicians start playing gen that is when things get all cocked up...just like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq...to name a few... In Vietnam the Tax payer did have a major influence...hence why they lost, becuase it was not being run by the gens but wannabe Politicians

What do you think they are going to find....If i was a betting man nothing more than the other dozen or so investigations found....sounds like a waste of someones tax dollars,,,i mean what are they going to do to the Taliban if they find something....

The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Had the US kept up un restricted bombing of the North, plus punished those other countries for allowing the North to operate within their borders...that war would have been over in months...

Yes it is Human Nature to want the latest and greatest equipment that money can buy, and while most of us will finally conceed to your speaking piont and ask ourselfs do we really need that one tool with all the bells and whistles or can i get by with a cheaper one....and for most items in lfe we do finally purchase the cheaper verison... But military equipment you have to start asking a few more questions, and rightfully so.... as this equipment is not only for taking lifes but saving them as well...equipment that will give our soldiers an edge on the battlefield means they are safer, (increases the average life span of a soldier)meaning the enemy is dieing off alot quicker than ours...which in the end is what war is all about is it not...And when your talking about Canada manpower it is an issue there are only so many persons that can be inducted , trained and forced to fight for our flag , as opposed to say Russia or China....which has people to throw away for any cause....So we don't need all the toys, but what ever we purchase needs to be better than say the worst case situation that murphy can throw at us... Lets remember we have always had sub's perhaps not enough of them but i don't think our navy has done without them, once again we have not kept our end of the bargin here in regards ensuring our forces have the equipment they need to do the job our Nation has asked of them....And i'm by no means a sub expert that i'll leave to BC since he was a submariner from way back....what i do know is when you trace our subs history back, the north has been a free fire zone with other nations coming and going as they please...all year round...not just when the polar ice pack is melting currently their is only 2 types of ves that can do that, Nuc powered ice breaker, only good most of the year which leaves some areas left unpatroled...or Nuc subs or Alt fuel subs ...So while they may be a nice to have they are required....if you don't think so then perhaps we should look at only patroling when it's nice out or during the summer months...As for affording it all, really ...Canadians are just getting the sticker shock now, at how much it costs when you starve your Military for 10 plus years...So really it comes down to this you want security then you pay for it...remember that although i volunteered the next brew up may not be so, and our sons and daughters will be putting on the uniforms and manning the equipment we thought was to expensive... I not sure where you got this thing about F-35 for artic patrols , that is not thier entire function...and while some Ministers lack of imigination on uses for the F-35 may be all the media has got to report....Canada has signed on to god knows how many defensive agreements, with countries around the globe...all it would take is for some spark and Canada would be asked to throw in it's troops and equipment to defend or fight some nation in a far away place...Think about the US response to Russias agression last year...or what if China decides it's time to take back it's claimed terrirtory....and while it might be unlikely in your mind this would happen perhaps ask BC how many unreported Naval incidents happened during the last 20 years, how many lifes were lost, and what equipment was actually sunk or damaged... The threat is real...

I've done a few of these inter actions with students, mostly at high schools, we normally brought in 2 or 3 soldiers , in a LAV, one would be dressed to the nines All the combat gear, wpns and equipment an average soldier would carry...plus set up displays of other wpns and equipment we would use....and part of it is a hook as discribed by boges...However history is a dry topic to most kids, seeing feeling,what a soldier had to carry, what he eat, what wpns he had, adds greatly to understanding what our soldiers went through each day.....we talked about our experiences, what we saw , and did, and while we left out the gory details, i think by the time we had left thay had a greater understanding...History is more than what is written in a book, it's about the people that have written that history by their actions....

You make it sound like the groups they sponsor are boy scouts, or simple travel groups....when in fact they have created an entire organization to export terrorism through out the region and world... IRG link This is what you call alittle covert activity... Shatt al Arab Dispute 1969-71 Iranian Plot: Iraq 1970 Iranian Revolution 1978-79 Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-81 Second Kurdistan Movement 1979-95 Iran-Iraq War 1980-90 Battle at the Grand Mosque 1987 Strait of Hormuz Incident 1988 How about these military figures.... link I think your right, however if they could strike Israel hard enough and with a clear death blow, without Israel striking back i do think they would do it...He is all about saving his own skin in the game, but he freely will send others to their deaths....a quick look at the Iran Iraq war tells us that...

He has already been pigion holed as an insurgent and under that law he is not entitled any other benfits the conventions provide.

To be eligible to apply to the Canadian Forces, you must meet the following three minimum requirements: Be a Canadian Citizen Be 17 years of age (with parental or guardian consent) or older, except: Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applicants, who must be 16 years of age or older Meet the minimum education requirements for your desired military occupation: Grade 10 or Secondaire IV in Quebec, and additional educational prerequisites as specified by the occupation DND However you must atleast 18 years old to be deployed outside of Canada. or engaged in any form of Comabt internally or externally

Is that your opinion or your brother in laws, As i'm curious as i find it hard to believe that your brother in law would say that, I find it hard to believe anyone in the forces conjuring up stories to keep the Canadian peace knicks scared and shakin in some corner of BC...Just a look at DND's current equipment, it's date of manufacture, and comparing it to what is out there today would or should be enough to convince anyone it is time for an update or new equipment....we don't need ruskies or little yellow guys to do that.... Im sure any average canadian joe can provide you a list of old Canadian equipment, Shit the MLVW is almost 30 years old all of which cost more to keep operational than twice as much new stuff...but your right the Average Canadian soldier does sit back and dream of new stuff, not because we have a yearning to spend yours and ours tax dollars, but because we have families as well that we would like to come home to...after all not many jobs in Canada have signed on for unlimited liability ...we would atleast think before Canadian tax payers sent us out they would give us a fighting chance.... And from the equipment that we have requested i'm pretty sure theres no nuclear powered tanks, or any phasors, in fact most of the list is very resonable....to most people...

Perhaps it is just me i find it alittle ironic that the entire UN convention in regards to Child soldiers orginal intent was to protect children involved in warfare... And yet children recieve very little attention when it comes to treatment during conflict ....they recieve none on the battlefield, once labeled a combatant then they are legal targets to be engaged at will anytime, any place...the only special treatment they recieve is onve combat operations have ceased, they are to be separated from adult prisoners , they are to be housed separatly if the situation permits, other than that they are to be treated the same as any other prisoner, IE treated humanily, feed , sheltered, etc etc....the main diference is when they are to be tried for any crimes they are deemed responsiable for, here the convention does state that Children may be held responsiable but the main effort should be on treatment....All in all this is the law in which we signed on for, it is what we protect children of war with.... So to sum it all up once a child becomes a combatant we can kill them, but we can not in most cases hold them accountable for their actions, sure there is a clause in there that says the UN can take legal action again'st those that approve the use of children in armies...which i beleive there is one case before the courts now, really a paper law...ineffective at best... The Laws are not strong enough to deter the use of children in combat period , we see this in the news everyday ...And while we here in Canada signed on for this convention, we have really agreed that these conventions are good enough.... As for Omar being held accountable , yes he has seen his day in the courts, he has been sentenced, and he will be serving that sentence until we agree he has accounted for his crimes... And in my opinion it's not enough, 8 years out of 40 to me is a light sentence almost a laughable one...like i said my opinion....

My piont wsa Eyeball had stated that children follow thier parents wishes without thought of consquences...which is not true, Omars parents had wanted him and his brother to become sucide bombers for the cause and the family, both had refused....knowing that it would mean giving up thier lives....or like the other example telling them to jump off a bridge....they knew it was wrong regardless of what they had been told ot taught via their religion...They just knew... As for him taking up arms again'st invaders, really...Correct me if i m wrong but was it not an AQ element that flew those plnes into the towers. If so we can not act surpirsed when Uncle Sam decided to stomp them into dust....declaring them invaders is a step is it not...They must have known that the US would hold them accountable and come after them..... My piont on treating children differently is this...on the battle field children are treated the same, it is when the fighting has stopped, they are even considered for special treatment if that is what you call it...they are separated from the rest of the prisoners,housed separatily if space allows, then they are treated as any other prisoner, until the conflict is over...they are treated humanily...etc etc...So really there is not alot of protection or laws in place to really make a difference... I was pionting out some of the twisted pionts of the laws and conventions , for instnaced it is ok to shoot them,or blow them up with a F-15E full of 500 pounders, but not to hold them in most cases accountable for crimes they have commited....

I don't despise Omar the Child, but rather what he became....And while he may be a victim he is as likely to change his spots as you are to change your mind . In his mind he is right and he is doing the right thing...As for his innocence that has been stolen from him by his family, his peers, the group he decided to join....those years are gone, and won't be coming back...He is now an adult, that has not had the chance to change any of his beliefs or experiences while he has been locked up....just what do you think he is going to do when he his released....He'll return to what he knows....

Jacee: And while there are Laws, and conventions on this very topic they are ineffective, and really do nothing to effect the use of children on the battle field.

Tell they to jump off a bridge ....do they hesitate , give you a strange look and say WTF are you talking about....why is that, even at a young age they know it is not right...but the question is will they obey you...not likely... Did Omar tell his mother and father YES i'll strap on the explosive vest,i'll blow myself up for you and the family if that is your wish...NO why is that ?...so your whole argument aboput children blindly following what they say is false or has limitations to it .....

Rumour has it at over 10 years or 4.6 bil us which is still about the same in CDN dollars They purchased the F model to replace the F-111....why a twin seater i don't know, maybe it makes since ...is'nt the F-15E a twin seater...anyways i can remember not so long ago we were having the same debate me sticking with the F-35 and you with the F-18 ...but things have changed a bit...something that has gotten me to change my postion is i know 65 aircraft is not enough...and i know there is no more funding available for this project....that and every day there seems to be less and less orders for this aircraft....infact the US is very concerned that it will also have to cut it's numbers...and good luck getting any more orders out of europe.... although i still like teh F-35 very much, i think it would be better to hedge our bets like the Aussies, buy hornets now, and later in the production run buy F-35's if and when that program stablizes ...

That would depend on what the Ausies got with their program, but if you numbers are right that would be 250 mil per copy ...last time i checked even the F-22 were not that expensive....

This story along with others may have an underliying theme. The F-35 program is well getting more and more flak every day, with more and more experts agreeing that perhaps we should down size our commitment to the F-35...The only minister right now that defends the purchase is mckay....as problems grow even the MND will find it hard to keep the program in line and on track....thats 29 bil worth of program... The reason i say this is the super hornet is looking better and better to almost everyone....I think we will all agree there is not much more room for defence spending.....And yet try and find a Canadian that really puts any stock into our current Subs....I think selling the Nuc sub would be an easy ploy if someone could convince the minister and airforce to cancel the F-35 purchase, of course that would have to be a big bone you'd have to throw, but if it did happen there would be room for perhaps some subs.... As for which Subs to purchase the brits have a new sub, and although it still going through teething problems like dereck said I don't think Canadians want to buy anything British.... I like the American solution, purchase some refitted LA class, have Canadian sailors intergrated into the US training,not the first time we have done this, infact i pretty sure we have had our sailors on board US subs as part of some Officer training course albiet in very few numbers, but it has been done....I mean our Navy is one of the few that has been allowed to form US Naval battle groups, we have exchanged crew all the time... Not only would it give Canada a crack at owning and operating it's own Nuc sub program, but we would or could do it under the worlds finest operators, it would also allow the US to still float x number of boats at a fraction of the price as there is no doubt they could or would become part of another US Naval BG. and like Derick said perhaps we could Grad into maybe the Virgina class some day.... As for Maintence , or refits, they could be done at US ship yards....as part of the agreement...

Jacee: Ya lets take a look at that shall we, i remember getting on the plane ROTO 1 the second tour over, the place was lined with thousands of canadians waving little flags, the streets were lined with people shouting and screaming...Kick some ass, amoung other things.... Canada as a majority was all for the mission....later on it would stop being a Canadian mission with the support of the people but rather a Canadian Armed forces mission, with nothing to do with the people....and as part and parcel of that we had to pay for everything we needed for that mission in blood....everything, getting light jeeps replaced, getting helos, getting armed helo escorts...we paid for all that in our blood....all that changed how our soldiers seen our own nations people and their support..during that time we learned to adapt and over come most obsticles placed in our way... Shit for a time we even took over the diplomatic mission Ya not bad for a bunch of army guys we learned to borrow and steal off our allieds for equipment we desparately needed....developing deep bonds with our allieds so in the end we felt we had to betray them in order to follow our governments wishes to return home with the mission unfinished....instead stuck in a non combat role with all the rest of the non combat wieney nations.... So yes things have changed for our soldiers and we do or atleast most of us have a bad taste in our mouths in ref the Afghan mission... Do you really believe that crap, that this is about pipe lines and whats the other one bils in minerals, drugs ....since we've been there, there has not been one section of pipe laid...can you imigine what security that would take to keep the insurgents off it...Minerals buried deep in the ground, i doubt any mining company has even been to Afghanistan, without getting shot, or blown up....the drug trade ...while the major drug cartels are making bils off Afghan poppy market the average Afghan farmer is barely making enough to feed his family.... but then again all wars are for the corp america ....well most this one does not come close except the arms companies....there is nothing in Afghan except rock and dust... As a soldier we have countless hours on culture awareness, history behind Aghanistan, it's people it's wars, the region....then we get 6 to 7 months of being dipped right into the middle of Afghan, living with the poeple talking to them on a daily bases...understanding their problems because we are immersed in them...working with them to fix them....as for knowing what and how our government works we have access to everything the avg Canadian does, from TV direct feed, to intra net.... Canadian soldiers have first hand info when it comes to Afghan infact what the media reports most of the time we laugh and joke on how bad they screw that up....there has been very few reporters that even wnet outside the wire and seen what we did....We ask questions all the time and becasue we are soldiers we ask them in short and blunt terms, remember all those government types, just dieing to get over and see the boys....ya well they've been held over the coals a few times... We are soldiers, but we are Canadian soldiers and citizens not robots....these missions are 100% volunteer, and trust me soldiers know what they are getting into... Our every move has been under the micro scope since this mission has started, and we were judged the entire way...some examples have already been posted...here is my favorite my second tour, i'm eating supper watching the news and on comes the Prisoner abuse scandle remember that one....some Univeristy proff in Ottawa has gotten some evidence from an inmate in Afghan that he has and was abused by Canadian soldiers and once the story is broke he gets dozens of these letters....right away DND says it will investage...it sends out a flash message any and all prisoners are to be treated like gold, no bruises no nothing...lets forget we are at war, not some tues night cop show...we deal with fanitics not some drug induced robber as protrayed on TV...But in the media we are already tried and convicted...in fact this went on for months and months....an independent investagation found that the orginal prisoner wasn't even taken by Canadian soldiers....and poff the media shut up , it did not retract anything it just moved on, mean while joe blow Canadian thinks his nations soldiers are thugs....no we were judged and we had to justify everything.... My feelings, do you really care ...as long as i'm good to go the next time right....atleast that is what the doc said when we all interviewed for the next mission... Making war on child soldiers is more common than you think....to the piont it is very common,All those laws and agreements everyone keeps bringing up well there for you, back in Canada home safe and sound...for us soldiers over there it's reality, it's war, it's their war with no rules, except on our side...this is were i draw my opinions from from reality, as it happens every day in Afghan...not from a chair in a living room...And as far as you sending me over there, that stopped along time ago, when the support for the mission died and we started paying for what we needed with our blood...No we stuck up our hands and said pick me, becuase we believed in the mission, and the Afghan people. Do i hate child soldiers or dislike them....No, i do hate what they have forced me to do, i dispise those that have turned these kids into monsters, and stripped their inocence...But once i get kitted up and take my turn outside the wire, my head is screwed on tight, and i will do what it takes to bring the men under my charge back home to their loved ones...

Jacee: Then sort me out, which facts and which laws and i'm twisting and contorting... And as for anger, i will admit that i do hold Omar and his merry band of relatives in contempt for good reason, currently he holds our government hostage until Omar agrees not to go forward with court actions in regards to our government not acting on his behalf in a timily matter...and he's right, our government should have done something quicker, but with that in mind it should have shown the world that we take this terrorist thing serious and made an example of him in our courts... His family has shown nothing but contempt for this country, and are quit open about their feelings, and yet they have no problem acceptin our health care, our welfare, and our pay outs for info....which i might add is more than we are doing for our widows and families of our own Nations fallen...not to mention those who have been wounded so badly they can no long support their families, for them we gave a small payout and said thank you for your service , good luck in the future....just 2 reasons , but wait there is more... This entire UN child soldier thing does nothing to stop children from serving on the battle field...yes it gives us another law, but ask your self how many low lifes have actually been brought forwarded and charged and sentenced under this new law...Do you really think that a group or nation not party to the conventions really care about one more law they have broken....but the law is not for their bennifit it is so we can make ourselfs feel good....It does nothing to keep children off the battle field.. What keeps children off the battle field is knowing there is legal consquences for their actions...does that make me some hard ass, with a black heart perhaps, but then again i'm sure that most Canadians have not been faced with the moral problem of engaging children on the field of battle either...And in the end that is what everyone wants correct to keep children off the battle field.... I'm not holding Omar responsiable for all the child soldiers problems in Afghan, just want a fair and just solution to his problems. a 40 year sentence is a forty year sentence...not 8...during that time he should get the help he needs mentally and physically.... No i've worked through my issues and i've learned to live with my demons...and my anger as you put it is not focused on the Khadrs but rather at the Taliban and AQ and other terrorist groups how they have commited crimes that would rival the Nazi's in some cases...and the Khadrs were part of an organization that was an active part of all that, and no one can say with certainity that they are still not part of that...

Yes to Obey your parents but not to become robots... Is that my fault, nope, is it our governments fault, nope....who's fault is it...moms, dads...then why are we paying for it...why is our balls on the table about to get smashed.... Thats the problem nobody wanted to stand up and put thier feet down....Sorry but we have stripped your sons of their citizenship, pack your bags MOM were shipping you back to your Muslim roots, arrangements are made your sons are now Jordian citizens maybe Arab spring has already come there good luck ...I thought citizenship was a priviliage not a right...and it can be taken away as fast as it is granted...How many Canadians want these people to stand for Canmadians ....don't shit me and tell me we don't have a chioce...damn right we do, it's done everyday... As for the Flag. thanks Guyser for the reply, as i was not thinking all that polictically correct at the moment.

A foreign military really , which one is it, is he a Canadian citizen or not, which laws is he to obey...so to put this into perspective he is a Canadian national who is living in Afghanistan....how many laws and conventions has he already broken...so he's a merc so to speak....fighting in Afghanistan again'st Afghanistan governmental forces...once again how many laws has that broken....the only reason we did not ship his ass back to afghanistan to face trail is his worth in intel....or this guy be hanging a long time ago....15 or not...Ya in Afghanistan you don't wait long for your trial there , in less time it takes to warm your seat your out back digging a hole ... Next these foreign military guys as you call them showed up to the door with the National Army at the time because they had just had fighting that was going ongoing in the area...they were searching for persons who were involved in those scrimishes , when the Afghan army pers knocked on the door "They" Omars buddies opened fire through the door, then opened the door to finsh them off, killing 3 Afghan army pers....ya nice little boy you got there...once game on was called serveral air strikes later...a NATO ground strike took place and poor Omar ends up with a couple holes in his back....he talks english, Spec ops want him evaced as he may contain intel...good call, if he had not spoken he would have been ended well before the medical attention got to him....