bud

his book is, hands down, one of the best written and most thorough book on the history of the region. show me someone who has been able to show something, anything from his book that has been shown to be wrong. you have once again lowered yourself to the biased, propagandist you pretend not to be. who gives a sh*t about you or your family. we're talking about the history of the region and you are purposely omitting glaring information about israel's past and its prime ministers' roles in terrorism and activity against the allies, while harping and exaggerating the role of a palestinian who had ties with the nazis and then trying to sell that palestinians have nazi roots. if you want to be serious about discussing the history of the region, then stop being a little baby and discuss. instead of trying to wiggle and weasel your way out of the uncomfortable truth. time to put away wikipedia and ihr.org and start reading real history books. are we done here on this topic or are you going to respond to this? how often do you repeat the grand mufti's ties to the nazis and try to paint the palestinians as allies of the nazis? why then so silent on irgun and lehi and their leaders who not only attacked and killed the british but they also committed terrorist attacks against civilians. then, their leaders became prime ministers of israel. wouldn't that be as alarming, if not more alarming? so why are you so selective about your history if you claim to be honest and truthful?

yes, this is from fox:

how often do you repeat the grand mufti's ties to the nazis and try to paint the palestinians as allies of the nazis? why then so silent on irgun and lehi and their leaders who not only attacked and killed the british but they also committed terrorist attacks against civilians. then, their leaders became prime ministers of israel. wouldn't that be as alarming, if not more alarming? so why are you so selective about your history if you claim to be honest and truthful? i don't agree with any person or group who collaborated with the nazis and the fascists. whether it's the mufti, irgun, lehi, france, italy, japan, romania, croatia, bulgaria, switzerland. what i'm not about to do is to try to sell the involvement of groups or people and generalize an entire population like you do. how many times have you tried to portray the palestinians as nazis? so why don't you have the same standard towards israelis and jews? why so selective when it comes to history? why the whitewashing? why don't you be honest and truthful? where is ihr.org's information on two of israel's prime ministers who were leaders of terrorist groups that killed scores of civilians and attacked the allies? my information comes from variety of books, including: The Righteous Victims by benny morris - the best book out there in regards to the history of the conflict. One Palestine, Complete: Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate by tom segev Israel: A History - by martin gilbert you should check them out and then we'll compare notes.

i don't even know who that is. regardless, you're failing in rebutting and instead, you're trying to dismiss information without citing. stern lead a terrorist organization which an eventual israeli prime minister was a part of. can we both agree that they were terrorist organizations that targeted civilians and fought against britain, one of the allies? telll me again, who was the commander of irgun when they blew up the king david hotel and killed 91 people: 91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public. By nationality, there were 41 Arabs, 28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. 46 people were injured. another cheap answer. either explain what you find to be wrong, or we'll have to jot another one down as DoP failing.

over 300 children were killed by the israeli army during their attack on gaza. according to numerous professional bodies, many of the attacks violated international and were war crimes. but let's put that aside and compare the number of children killed by u.s. drone attacks and the number of children killed by taliban. will the fathers, the mothers, the brothers, the sisters, the friends going to care how their sons, daughters, siblings or friends were killed? no.

NO ONE ever defends hamas. why should we criticize a party who is not supported by anyone here or by our country? most of us already know that they're scum. whereas israel's actions are not only supported by the apologists such as you (even though you try to sell yourself as a rational and objective person) but it is supported by canada. despite their disgusting human rights record. so yeah, when our country supports another country that constantly violates human rights, like smashing into homes in the middle of the night and take children away into custody, and keeping them without charges and torturing them, then you better believe that i will speak out. perhaps one day you will grow some balls and find a way to abandon your nationalism and zealotry and start being truthful.

i never said germany was arming irgun. it was mussolini who was arming them. whatever watered down version you want to write about 2 of israel's former prime ministers, and a past zionist leader, they all fought against the allies and killed civilians in the process. when they were blowing up ally supply routes, they were helping out the nazis who were at the same time, putting jews in concentration camps. so why all the cries about the grand mufti, who never really had much of a fan base and was eventually shunned by the arabs when two of israel's prime ministers have had a darker past with their collaborations with the enemy of the allies.

we agree.

how is he going to eliminate the deficit when he's going to be cutting taxes for the wealthy and putting even more money towards the military industrial complex? how are you so sure that his words about eliminating the deficit will come true when he hasn't even given the details in how he will do this? why are you falling for crap that has been repeated over and over and over by other party leaders? he has his law degree from harvard. close enough.

obama wants to give out candy to the american people by running a deficit, while romney wants to give out candy to the military industrial complex and the rich by running a deficit. which harvard lawyer do you agree with?

they were deemed terrorist organizations for a reason. they blew up buildings and killed civilians. they sabotaged the british efforts against the nazis and they collaborated with the axis while receiving arms to fight the british. this is while jews were being taken into concentration camps. what more do you want them to do?

you kind of missed most of that. what about the other leaders of the terrorist groups, who eventually became prime ministers of israel? you're trying to make it sound like it was only stern when begin and shamir were also part of the terrorist organizations who collaborated with the fascists and attacked the british and the allied supply route.

as i said, i read it and pretty much everything you're demanding is part of the main immigration programs already. this leads me to believe that you probably don't know much about canadian immigration programs. you probably got in the easy way; as a dependent, spouse or a refugee, where you don't need to write an english exam.

i hope you're wrong as well. unfortunately, people who have committed heinous acts against children are often allowed to go free due to kangaroo court systems, kind of like this. An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

i read what you've written and as i said, they're mostly part of the majority of the immigration programs. how did you come into canada? what program did you use?

you really need to learn a thing or two about canadian immigration before you come huffing and puffing with demands. 4 out of 5 of the above are already part of the immigration process for majority of the immigration programs. in regards to the "value/moral" test; to me it sounds pretty stupid. in regards to the path to citizenship; before you can become a citizen, you are a permanent resident. after having lived in canada for 3 out of 4 years, then you are eligible to apply to become a canadian citizen. which, itself, is a difficult task that includes a difficult citizenship test.

i have never denied the mufti's involvement. although there were a minority of palestinians who collaborated with the nazis, a whole nation cannot pay the price for the choice of a few. especially since palestinians (and most of the arab world) aided the allies with personal and logistics. they also ignored the mufti's call for jihad against the british. so back to the information which you totally ignored: it's interesting that you never talk about the acts of the jewish stern gang, a terrorist organization, who not only resisted the british mandate, but they also committed terrorist acts against palestinian and british civilians. they also collaborated and received funding from the italian fascists to resist the british mandate. while their jewish brothers were being killed in concentration camps the stern gang's and the irgun gang's leaders and future israeli prime ministers, yitzak shamir and menachem begin, were busy killing british soldiers and blowing up railroads to stop the british supply lines. they were also blowing up hotels and terrorizing british and palestinian civilians. when shamir, israel's future prime minister was asked to explain their collaboration with the fascists, he replied: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." (One Palestine Complete , p. 464). it's hypocritical to hold palestinians responsible for the choice of one man, al-hajj amin, while israelis and jews still blind themselves to the choices some of their leaders and future prime ministers made during ww2.

much like israel and israelis. the difference is that majority of the people who call themselves palestinian lived in palestine but majority of the jews who migrated to palestine in the last century from eastern europe, in order to create a new state called israel, had absolutely no connection to the land (except for fairytale/biblical). you need to understand and accept something very simple; the official stance of the whole world is that the occupation and the settlements are illegal. if a country does not agree with this stance, they would object and voice their opinion. the whole world agrees on this issue, including israel's 3 closest allies: u.s., canada and the e.u. i hope you're able to absorb this fact. south and north vietnam used to be one nation until they were split after ww2. they were always been one people. they didn't have mass immigration from another part of the world, where the new immigrants wanted to create a new state. once the north won the war against the south and united states, vietnam went back to what it was before. your comparisons are ridiculous because you, either ignorantly or purposely, do not look at the whole context. the two situations cannot be compared for the reasons given above. the act of grand mufti and his collaboration does not equate the palestinians to being a part of the nazis. ever considered that there were also several palestinian brigades that were enlisted into the british army? of course not. that would ruin your whole narrative. it's interesting that you never talk about the acts of the jewish stern gang, a terrorist organization, who not only resisted the british mandate, but they also committed terrorist acts against palestinian and british civilians. they also collaborated and received funding from the italian fascists to resist the british mandate. while their jewish brothers were being killed in concentration camps the stern gang's and the irgun gang's leaders and future israeli prime ministers, yitzak shamir and menachem begin, were busy killing british soldiers and blowing up railroads to stop the british supply lines. they were also blowing up hotels and terrorizing british and palestinian civilians. when shamir, israel's future prime minister was asked to explain their collaboration with the fascists, he replied: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." (One Palestine Complete , p. 464). it's hypocritical to hold palestinians responsible for the choice of one man, al-hajj amin, while israelis and jews still blind themselves to the choices some of their leaders and future prime ministers made during ww2.

sorry to end this typical witch hunt and howling of anti-semitism, but here is greta berlin's statement: I am not a Holocaust denier. And I am not a supporter of the video that I posted, nor would I ever have been. It was, in fact, an example of propaganda that is EXACTLY what I and others are horrified over. The video (although I didn't watch it then) seemed like the kind propaganda that our group was discussing. And I passed it on because of the title. Ironically I am caught in the same propaganda hysteria that I was trying to fight. It was my mistake that I didn't post to the small private group on Facebook and the video ended up on my wall. Greta here is a comment by someone who originally came down on greta berlin and her comment: I wrote this morning about a controversial tweet sent by the co-founder of the Free Gaza Movement, Greta Berlin. I learned later that a writer who I’ve long respected, Larry Derfner, has written in defense of Berlin, calling attacks on her “slander,” and when Derfner writes something, I listen. The heart of his defense was that: All these stories referred to Berlin’s apology on the Free Gaza Movement website—but only to one part of it: the part where she explains that she didn’t mean for the tweet to go out on the Free Gaza Movement’s Tweeter [sic] account, but only to a group of people on her personal Facebook page. Reporting this and only this as her “apology” naturally made Berlin look even more evil. …Berlin’s full explanation… is that her tweet was not a statement of her views, but a headline for the video she was sending to a discussion group on “propaganda and racism” as an “example of the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites.” I was careful in writing my piece to speak up for those who are falsely accused of being anti-Semitic simply because they support Palestinian rights—I am among those people, as are many beloved friends. The point of my post was that in spite of what I see as a troubling over-use of the anti-Semitism accusation, real, honest-to-god Jew hatred does still exist, and pro-Palestinian activists who employ it not only hurt the Jews against which it is directed, but also the cause they claim to defend: Palestinian rights, and a just resolution of the conflict.

you have a habit of pulling things out of your .. and then trying to draw a parallel between it and israel's illegal actions to somehow try to justify israel's actions.. look up UN resolution 413. now back to the topic of the whole world finding israel's occupation and settlements and the annexation of east jerusalem illegal.

give me a break.

we're using percentages and not total numbers. tell me, how many muslim american have perpetrated mass murder? sure. we won't count all the abortion related murders or the unibomber or the pipe bomber and numerous other attacks by non-muslims. ? whatever point you're trying to make, didn't really make much sense. when was the last time a muslim american went to the local wal-mart with a machine gun because someone was dissing muhammed? are crazy gun attacks limited to dissatisfaction with how the person's religion is being treated? because there have been numerous crazy gun attacks by non-muslims in america.

whoa. settle down straw man.

sorry buddy. you're wrong. the rest of the world includes EVERYONE but the israel. everyone, meaning and including the u.s., canada and all the european countries. the occupation and the settlements are illegal as according to international law and EVERYONE but israel and the useful idiots disagree with that.

nice try bonam. even when facts show that you're wrong, you try to weasel your way out of admitting that you're wrong. statistics and history have proven that non-muslims americans are more likely to commit a terrorist attack in america than an american muslim. Stats: While it might seem chilling to learn that 8% of American Muslims feel that violence against civilian targets is “often or sometimes justified” if the cause is right, you have to compare that to the response given by non-Muslim Americans, 24% of whom said that such attacks are “often or sometimes justified.” History: Oklahoma city bombing and numerous anti-abortion murders are just a few examples of non-muslim american terrorist attacks. to refresh your memory: 9. Muslims in the West cheer for terrorist violence While it might seem chilling to learn that 8% of American Muslims feel that violence against civilian targets is “often or sometimes justified” if the cause is right, you have to compare that to the response given by non-Muslim Americans, 24% of whom said that such attacks are “often or sometimes justified.” This is reflected in most major surveys. When a large-scale survey asked if “attacks on civilians are morally justified,” 1% of the French public, 1% of the German public and 3% of the British public answered yes; among Muslims, the responses were 2%, 0.5%, and 2%. Asked if it is “justifiable to use violence for a noble cause,” 7% of the French public agreed, along with 8% of French Muslims; 10% of the German public and fewer than 2% of German Muslims; 10% of the British public and 8% of British Muslims. This may well be because 85% of the victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims.