Bakunin

Athletes swear at referees all the time but it does not make the news. Calling the refs 'fucking frenchmen' is offensive but so is calling them 'mother f**ckers'. Furthermore, he was complaining about bias in the refs calls which favoured the 'french' home team. Playing the 'racism' card grossly exaggerates what happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is what i mean, its ok to bash at quebeckers, its socially accepted. Weither its doan, cherry or avery, who cares... they never pay for what they say.

I think that not only he wasnt good enough to be on the team but its a lack of judgment from team canada. Looks like racism against quebecker is socially accepted and makes you a perfect choice to represent canada... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since when is "quebecker" a race? The world you're looking for is bigotry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I doubt he was talking about french from france to 4 quebec referee in a game in montreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... "Il y a une dizaine de jours, le capitaine de l'équipe des Coyotes de Phoenix faisait part de sa frustration aux quatre arbitres francophones qui veillaient à maintenir l'ordre dans la partie contre les Canadiens de Montréal. Visiblement insatisfait de la défaite qui semblait inévitable, Doan a traité les arbitres de «fucking Frenchmen» à quelques minutes de la fin du match." This is so ridiculous, racism is socially accepted unless you think that the 4 referee where not credible enough to be considered a trustworthy proof... will they have to tape him next time ? As for the player that could have taken his place: spezza,staal,tanguay,savard,marleau,kariya,sullivan,shanahan,brière,bergeron, ryder but personally i would have taken crosby.

I think that not only he wasnt good enough to be on the team but its a lack of judgment from team canada. Looks like racism against quebecker is socially accepted and makes you a perfect choice to represent canada...

lol, it remember me of a joke Duccepe did in a talkshow: The liberal say the conservative sleep with the bloc, the conservative say the liberal sleep with the bloc, both also think the ndp sleep with the bloc, in other word, they all want to sleep with us but no one wants to marry us.

"Every time I went to Quebec, from 1992 to 2002, I was actually searching for something that went far beyond ways and means of improving my linguistic capacity. I was searching for a very special someone - LaFontaine!" - Preston Manning Could Dumont be what Preston Manning was looking for but never found ..... LaFontaine? Could you please translate that damn thing! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It say that Mario Dumont, like the conservative vision of harper and that he will vote for the conservative but will never become a candidate for them. Mario Dumont was part of the sovreignist camp in 1995 and publicly said that he didn't believe in canada anymore but he don't want referendum in the next few years. His new constitutional vision since 2003 is called "autonomism" wich on paper would mean more power to the province and less for the federal. Harper is not even subtil when he use the word "autonomism", his message is clearly targeting the ADQ voters. However august, i don't beleive it will change anything, but it does prove that the conservative party are taking a few of their politics from the ADQ.

I think it was funny to hear Layton constantly referring to broadbend, it felt like if broadbend was still the NDP chief and the one who took all the decision... As for duceppe he was as useless as harper and layton in the french debate. He knows his stuff, hes a good debater but its problably pointless to try to explain quebec point of vue in an english debate. I think it was boring because i don't think the candidate really explain their point of view, they only said what people want to hear such as "we will fix healthcare" ,"we will build a childcare system" ,"we will fight corruption" bullshit and etc... I mean i think there is nothing more boring than that :/ In fact the more i think of it, politics may not be boring but politicians are boring...

I disagree but i understand your opinion. I dont think a leader can win a debate without being honest. Paul martin isn't as honest as the other leaders, his whole strategy was based on scaring ppl about the conservative and at the end scaring ppl about the bloc, and a classic, plug parizeau in the debate . Of course it is entertaining, was it passion ? it can't be, the liberal are the only one to blame for their poor strategy and "astuces" to reintegrate quebec to the federation.

Did you go to school ?

The funiest things is that the name "Liberal party of canada" is now absent on Liberal signs... I think this tell alot about the situation.

Well of course quebec can manage best on its own, quebec fat political structure is built to be autonomous.

I think ppl must be carefull when they say such things. Quebeckers get more ($43.1 billions) money than they give ($39.8 billions) this is a fact. Quebeckers are poorer than albertan and ontario citizens, this is true but we are talking about 3,3 billions, not 10-20billions. Contrary to what ppl may think, quebeckers (23% of the population of canada) gets: 17,8 % of the federal government public function jobs. 19,6 % of Research and development, 18,5 % of the federal subsidies to business. I agree that quebec is one of the 8 poor provinces but i think we have to be fair, there is a step between poor and very poor... 3,3 billions is a substancial amount of money but it doesnt make quebec a member of the third world... Ps: those numbers are from an article of the economist and the newspapers.

I don't understand why it is seen as self serving to get money instead of services if we opt out... If the federal spend 5 billions on childcare why would it be selfish to ask for a fair share if you opt out of that program. It would be ridiculous if a province would have to pay for a program wich they opted out ! Is it because ppl think they get robbed by quebeckers ? or they are just against the opt out principle wich look pretty democratic to me ?

In other word, quebeckers can't ask for flexibility without being seen as evil separatist...

That would be too funny , it would be like if the NDP win a seat in alberta

Eureka, there is no need for such agressivity in your post... im tired of it, forums are meaningless if we can't express ourselves like adult, im sure you can understand that. The provinces should have the right to opt out of a federal program because right now the problem is that the federal try to take over provincial juridiction like childcare, municipalities and etc... If the provinces could opt out of those programs, then there would be no more fighting... When i talk about flexibility, this is what i mean. A federal governement that adapt differently to each provinces according to their needs. a government still equal to each provinces but that could adapt to the reality...

Your right, it started in the 60's ;P but what i meant is i can't imagine quebec today without the quiet revolution. Its like to imagine the world without the babyboomers generation... I read the texts and i see an interesting disscussion. How did quebec end up with two opposite movement, the federalist and the sovreignist and how they are perceived. Why did the debate became such polarized ? Sparhawk say something interesting, he perceive sovreignist as ppl who threaten canada to get concession. Maybe, because the way we perceive things, it ended up that a quebecker can't ask for a reorganisation of canada without being seen as a separatist trying to threaten canada to get concession. Then, provincial federalist are seen as ppl that ask for canada for more flexibility, but how can they be taken seriously by quebeckers when they fail to get listened by canadian evry time they are in power. And federal federalist (trudoiste) are ppl who doesn't want to make any compromise. When we think about it, is it just about perception ? what is the difference between "threatening canada to get concession" and "asking canada for more flexibility". Does flexibility has to be a concession ? If it is, then why is it so hard ? Who lose by giving more flexibility to the province ? Anyone will die because of it ? will it generate extrodinary loss of money ? Why is it so hard to conceide more flexibility to the provinces ? I already imagine eureka's answer.... no eureka, don't talk to me about other country... tell me why it is to hard to conceide more flexibility to the provinces ? Why was Meech too much for the ROC ? But the most important question, why does it have to be a concession ? we all know that federalism since the 60's generated 2 referendums, a shitload of fights and nothing good. If its too hard then i think we can't blame ppl that want to end this ethernal fights in quebec between the federal government and the provincial government. Maybe quebeckers and the ROC won't like the solutions proposed but canada has no chance to remain to the status quo for another 25 years... ppl are tired of fighting and want things to move on.

I think it was more than just the liberal government strategy. The funiest thing is that the ADQ and PQ at a time where Liberals... They all began there. But ill ask only one question, could you imagine Quebec staying the way it was before the 80's ? no bill 101, no economical middle class, no educational system and etc... Could we imagine our economy still in the hand of an elite english and american community ? No, it had to be done, a transition had to be done just like evry other country face. Quebec still haren't as rich as ontario or alberta but they are slowly closing the gap.

what his the scandal ?

Your problably talking about the bloc quebecois wich is in the current federal election. Quebecois is the french word for quebeckers Ok, to make it simple, quebeckers where voting massivly and almost uninamously voting liberal until the 80's when Pierre elliot trudeau (a liberal leader) changed the constitution to give more power to the federal government without the consentment of the quebec government. The quebec government frustrated, refused to sign the constitution. Then the liberal federal opposant at that time, Brian murloney's conservative party, promised quebeckers to change the constitution to reintegrate quebec to the constitution. They totally crushed the liberals then over two mandate tried twice to change the constitution but failed twice (meech accord, charletown accord). The conservative government at that time splitted up to create the bloc québécois wich was made of quebec politicians frustrated over the current constitution. This party only present candidate and ads in quebec( In other word they will never be able to form a government) then the conservative splitted up to create the reform party. However, the canadian political climate seems to make it impossible for a quebeckers to be against the current constitution and ask for change without being an evil separatist that want to break up the country. This attitude pushed frustrated quebeckers to the sovreignist camp (quebeckers that want an independant quebec). The other quebeckers to counter the sovreignist camp all went to the liberal party wich explain why harper and the ndp can't get any deputy in quebec. So this climate explain exaclty what is going on in quebec right now, we are trapped into two vision wich are of about equal in force, 50% vs 50%. One that vote for the bloc and the other that vote for the liberals. However its always harder for the liberal to make federalist vote for them because of scandals and etc... In other word, the Bloc quebecois is their to represent the sovreignist camp wich wants an independant quebec. It partly explain why we have a minority government instead of a conservative government and why the liberals are in power since 1993.

I think this is why we should try to stop subsidies as much as we can and drop the taxes down instead. We should invest more in small and medium company that won't let us down constantly. GM cars are the crappiest on the market, they can't compete with the asians and the european... they can't even compete with the other americans... I guess its partly because of the cost of the car and partly because they can't adapt to the market. One day or another they will have to send their production to china or korean or india. Stopping subsidies could be our plan to face up china and india. And to do that, we should drop down the taxes of companies that won't let us down.

thks for the correction

Lol, this story is pathetics... the liberals are such in bad shape in quebec that they mislead old peoples to fill their assembly room at their election opening speech... http://lcn.canoe.com/lcn/infos/national/ar...201-131001.html Translation: «The liberal chief introduced his 75 candidates in Quebec. The environment had to be enthusiastic and the room full. However, among the old people present, several did not seem particularly happy to be found there. A thorough investigation of our colleague journalist Lina Dib enabled us to learn that several people came from centre for the eldery. They had been invited without knowing that it was a partisans assembly.»

Its hard to explain but we don't refer ourself as french canadian since the 60's. Canada is still a supra nation englobing the first nation and the quebeckers. However i just don't know how to name the Rest of canada.

Its one of the main reason i come post message here, to learn english grammar and sometime its very hard to translate my thoughts from french to english and the only way i can correct myself is by seeing how you guys formulate your posts and comparing them to my approximative formulation however, dont worry, im working on it Anyone know a good computer apps to correct english grammatical errors ? Another reason, if sparhawks has few opportunities to hear quebequers, well its also true to me, i have few opportunities to hear about canadians.