Stoker

.......Or so they can launch a conventional invasion into the South without the threat of a South Korean Chemical attack or even a United States nuclear strike.......Bring in ABM, they can no longer threaten the South with impunity. Do you have proof that US spending on ABM is coming at the expense of any other Hom land defence program? I don't agree with it, but I understand why they are forced to use it........same with the NVA or Viet Cong using guerrilla warfare. Do you have any proof? How is it going to increase terrorism and/or start a new arms race? If they didn't build the ABM defence, would that end terrorism and prevent an arms race with China? Canada make a stand Likie the old saying goes.....When in Rome, do as the Romans do Yeah but everybody is trying to win in monopoly......competion being the key word.......only the ignorant think that there is not competion in the natural world. The United States is the buyer of almost 25% of China's exports, the next biggest buyer is Japan and about 15%......The United States is still important. In terms of GDP, is the United States growing or not? Now you answer my repeat question, then I'll answer yours......

So why would North Korea build ICBMs that can hit North America? How's that? I have not heard anybody saying home land defence and Ballistic missile defence was an either or choice.......as I said, ABM defence was not advertised to defend aganist "other methods" There is nothing fair about war and life in general......so I don't fault anybody that tries to defend themselves on "unfair" terms. What point? In all thoses cases, when the given item was first introduced, it was inferior when compared against what it would later become....... So you now want Canada to decide who gets the "bat".........You NDPers talk a good game, but come short on laying out how you are going to do achieve what you see as a positive end result. Yes it would be stupid......have you ever played monopoly? If not, go figure out how to play and win at the game then get back to me........ What would happen to China's export market if the United States economy collapsed? Now how would China come out a winner? The World's biggest "buyer" stops "buying", how does that translate into on of the world's biggest "sellers" coming out on top? Please explain your Marxist economics to this poor capitalists pig Now as I have said, the United States economy is growing I agree, it's silly how you don't answer my questions/points, even though I answer yours, and might I add, shooting them down like the ABM defence shield will shoot down North Korean ICBMs......... I don't mind debating, but it's pretty hard when only one side is answering the others questions.......

So you would be willing to sacrifice a handful of North American cities to save some money? I found it funny at times as how the Left-Wing paints the Right-Wing as cold. You don't think the threat of a nuclear strike on western seaboard cities as a deterrence towards the United States? And since this is a deterrence towards the United States, it restricts their ability to "control" North Korea... Hey, I'm using your logic...........You are saying that if the United States builds ABM defence, more nations are going to be out to get them (and us)..... Ahh, like all the stuff Saddam had to lose eh? Or OBL? Or the 19 hijackers? Or any PLO suicided bomber? Let's look at the example of Crazy Kim........If he has so much to lose by going to war with the United States, why does he have one of the worlds largest armies, why is one of the third worlds largest supplier of weapons, and why is he building his own nuclear arsenal? By what accounts? Was the first Airplane a "pig in a poke"? Was the first PC a "pig in a poke"? Was the first frozen dinner a "pig in a poke"? etc...etc....etc..... I'll also add, I have not heard of the Americans asking us for a cent as of yet......they are building it with or without us.. What does that have to do with the performance of the Patriot missile in the first gulf war, compared to it's most recent performance(s)? SO? If you are in a life or death fight, and you happen to find a baseball bat, are you going to wait for your adversary to find one so the fight is even? Then in Canada's case, would it not be prudent to contiune to support the person with the "Baseball bat", as opposed to the person without? Forgoting to mention that the person with the baseball bat lives next store to you and has used it's "baseball bat" for years to protect you...... bankruptcy Thats why their economy is growing again eh?

Thats......funny? And why doesn't North Korea have a record of invading states? Could it be US deterrence? What happens when North Korea can use deterrence to deter the United States? Let's transplant your logic into that of a pe4rson that is purchasing car insurance..........By me buying car insurance from ICBC, I'm infact wasting my money because I've never been in a car crash? Also, by me purchasing car insurance, I'm infact making myself more likely to be involved in a crash? Perhaps you are too dim to realize that having an adversary that has something worth losing is a better situation then being up against those that don't....... Huh Not having the technology? What are they building right now in Alaska and California? That was the first Gulf War, go read up about the recent war......12 years makes quite the difference. Thats was the first Gulf War, and it was under 50%. The Americans can pick and choose who has access to GPS........and if need be, cut-off an existing user. The Americans plan to be able to fight all types of wars.....and I'd rather they be perpaired to fight the next cold war that is coming whether we like it or not.

Are we latin America? Apples and Orang.....er.....Bananas..

North Korea only has a couple? Of the folling cities, you pick two that North America can do without: Juneau Vancouver Seattle Portland San Francisco Las Vegas Los Angles San Diego I'm waiting. Why do you think North Korea built and is building nuclear weapons and ICBMs? Could it be so they can "level" the playing field a tad with the United States? Now should a country like North Korea be aloud to "play" on this field? Whats wrong with putting the odds in your favor? Whats wrong with getting ready for another cold war with the worlds next superpower? Ahh, so thats why he is building ICBMs

I'm still not clear, you are now saying the United States is expected to protect South Korea for "geostrategic" reasons........isn't that still an expectation placed on the United States? I want to have an above average income without working.....but like the Rolling Stone's song states...... ......We could tell the United States to go shove it, and we will start defending ourselves on our own and stop trading with "those foregin control freaks", but we will also have to pay the piper so to speak.........Do you want Canada to become a second, possably a third world nation? Who's going to pay for all the social programs Would I be crazy to think that maybe, just maybe, South Korea believes in the cause and they are acting on their own? Isn't the current South Korean government also "unfreindly" towards the United States?

So you expect the United States to defend South Korea? Alot of people also expect the United States to defend Canada........My question, if we expect the United States to defend us, why are there those that one would call "anti-American" within Canada? Isn't that akin to biting the hand that feeds you?

Yeah I'll be watching Global as well..........but when it looks as if the Conservatives will win, I wonder how long it will take for the Toadies over at the CBC to change their tune........ First person I want canned from the CBC is Jian Ghomeshi.....can't stand the bugger......followed by who ever put the seven second muzzle on Don......Hell, I guess it would be easier to figure out who I wouldn't want gone

sorry might have misread your first question.....yes we will be able to see how the vote is going on the east coast....the first polls start closing about 3:30 pm PST.... And yes, I'm on the loony left coast

yes, tv coverage starts at 3:30 pm out here on the coast....

I'm not sure Michael, but here is an intresting site: Western Canada Concept I find this part the most intresting: and Why do we need Eastern Canada again?

Money is the underlining issue.........Westerners are tired of sending their money into what we think as an eastern blackhole with little political say and return on our "investment".......

Since we are not part of the ABM program, I wonder how Canadian physicists are privy to all the workings of ABM... Can Canadian physicists pick the lotto numbers? The Chinese and the Russians are not as of yet the main threat and reason for ABM defence......as for their new "uber weapons", well a has happened since man lived in caves, you get a big club, I'll get a bigger club.. Or, it allows the west the option of disarming North Korea without the threat of North Korean nuclear retaliation. Then with a disarmed North Korea, their is less of a threat of a terror group "floating a nuke into a port"....... With that said, ABM has never promised or even been suggested to defend against terror groups.......kinda like getting your lawn mower to do your dishes I've also never heard that the ABM defence and homeland serucrity was an either or issue. Who are Harper's corporate connections? As for worrying about upseting Canada's "economic apple cart", wouldn't a North Korean nuke strike in the middle of downtown Vancouver also damage our economy?

How's that? Money makes the world go around.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be best if Canada seperated (not divorced) for say a generation.....let Quebec goes it own way... let BC, Alberta and Yukon go another...... cut the Atlantic provinces adrift..... Sask, Man and terrortories can either stay with Ontario and let Ontario pay for their social programs or go their own way as well........ Then after 10-15 years, we see were everybody is at, then either contiune or get back together.....but if we do decide to "get back together", we look at each economy and use that as a watermark as how to decide which part of the country will have the bigger "say" on how Canada II is run......would be intresting

Exactly, just like fisherman.........must be nice, work half the year then collect the dole and sit at home or work for cash under the table........... I got a better idea, how about seasonal workers, hell any worker, can check a box on their income tax form, and not pay into EI, BUT they can't collect it either. This way the Fishermen, Mushroom and berry pickers and tree planters can keep their EI contriubtion and when their work runs out, they can either sleep in a cardboard box or get a frigging job the last year round........

Thats just bloody great........you gone and gave away the Conservatives hidden agenda I agree, French is a waste of time on the west coast(ROC?)........if they want to force us to learn a second lanugage, let's learn Chinese or something useful FFS.. IMHO, it should be the choice of the provinces and paid for by the provinces........

Back in 1903 these two crazy brothers made this thing-a-ma-jig that looked like a kite...........ahh it would never work As for starting a new arms race, what the hell are you talking about.......the race never bloody well ended..would you please outline the NDP plan to "put the nuclear genie back into the bottle"? I'm sorry, I live on the west coast and it's now debatable whether or not North Korea has missiles that can reach the west coast of North America and even if the lower mainland and the Island were not targeted in an attack, we would sure as shit feel the effects of fallout if a missile attack was launched on Seattle or nearby nuclear missile sub bases........And even until the have the kinks worked out (which they will), I would feel a might bit safer knowing there was a 50/50 chance that the ABM defence network was there to atleast try and protect me and opposed to the Socialist's plan So ABM is now a money making plot?

I'd wonder if not just an Albertan party, but perhaps a serious western seperatist movement should be examined? I'd wonder what the figures (ie. population, GDP) of a country made up of British Columbia, Alberta and the Yukon would look like? If I had to guess, a "new" country made up of BC, Alberta and the Yukon would prove more viable then a sovereign Quebec would......... *If there was the intrest, I'd add Man, Sask and NWT to the "new" country*

Why's that? I'm sure they would have come in handy in Vancouver during the last APEC summit/Canucks playoff defeat/Guns and Roses concert

To act as a safety net for working Canadians, not for beer money for college students and Fisherman.....

I forgot to add: -Push forward right to work laws -bring back the BCPP, and reduce the role of the RCMP in community policing -Perhaps even look at forming a commision of sorts made up of provincal/state governments, industry, and big buisness from British Columbia, Alaska, Washington, Alberta and Oregon. Then use this commision to help lobby the CDN/US governments to ease areas that affect Pacific North Westerners (ie. Trade/ Law Enforcement/ Enviroment/Lumber/Commercial Fishing) -Pressure Federal government to "bring back" a regular force military base to the lower mainland -Lobby federal government to allow Provincal government(s) control in depolying the Militia/reserves in times of need (ie. disaster/riots/SAR/assisting in policing)

-I'd get the premier to open up all the stops on off shore oil and gas exploration -Lower taxes on Oil and Gas companies -with the aid of other government departments, set-up "add campaigns" stating how tough the environmental regulations are towards the oil and gas industry in BC -Do everything the PC government in Alberta has done. My idea of Utopia, Alberta's economy added to BC's natural beauty and resources.......

Can you prove that? IIRC, they have over 15k troops still there, possably closer to 20K........ If Saddam had of told the UN where and what proof he had of destroying his WMDs......He would still be in one of his Palaces...... If you are walking down the street and a crook rasies a baseball bat towards you, are you not going to try and take action to defend yourself?Or will you let him hit you with a bat?