xul

Please read the latest my response to bush_cheney2004.....I have become a western media's shill or perhaps a faithful believer. If the media you deeply trusted reported honestly the view point and evidence of both side not only one side to let readers to make themselves judgement, why would Chinese government need to send its message out by internet?

Don't worry, tomorrow will be great, according the dominative theory in western media. Communism will collapse soon, even if it will not be knocked down by media, it will be knocked down by lack water ,Beijing Games water policy troubling, for communist have pumped each drop of water into the Olympic swimming pools so all corn and wheat will dry to die and 1.3 billion Chinese will uprise for starving. All honorable so-called China democratic activists will be elected in the future Democratic China, for Chinese people respects their history to bravely fight communist army in Beijing street---if there were someone doubt that, I suggest him to refer to the western newpapers published before and after 4th June, 1989, he would find most of the name of these democratic leaders listed in the paper before 4th June have vanished after 4th June for they have died in the street with those people who had ever trusted them. Tibet will be a independent country soon and French will soon send its embassador to Tibet though by which way the embassador will go into Tibet will be a problem---landing in the ariport or taking the train which China built for Tibet, or making a donkey ride along the ancient path from India. American troops will soon withdraw from Europe, for people there have found journalism is the best way to defeat their enemy---form ancient Chinese emperor, to the communists now, and the future ET or something. Everyone knows the main lesson of journalism is Jedism, which give them the ability to dodge bullet to avoid be hitted when they "reported" their "story" of a carnage in the street not their hotel room(everyone will agree with me of that no journalists was hurted in the carnage, so they must have the ability to dodge bullet then they were reporting the event in the street or they were just seating in their hotel room making their "story"), so the Force will be always with them . After the withdrawal of American force, the "reporter without border" will become reality in Europe---in fact everyone there will be without border include Russian . When everyone in the world has been trembled under the Force of media, the harmonious world will be reached and communist's chairman will be gritified for he at least has successfully predicted one thing. Of course, there is nothing perfect. After all thing above was achieved, we still left one thing to our children which they need to deal with---the new kind of tyranny of the Force of media which dominated everyone's daily life.

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500 years ago, did your ancestors live in the land now are called Canada? To those people whose ancestors lived here before that time, you are the foreigner. Yes, but not those torch-snatchers. And I have not doubt most of these guys have also shown the same things when they "prestested" the NATO mission in Afghanistan, the globalization.....and of course the US hegemony---this is why Mr. Bush dislike them, I guess. Lol. Were they astronauts? That Night not that Week I was there, It was dark in the street because the main streetlight was cut off(I think it is to avoid people shooting photo or vedio for the event) so people could hardly discern the object one hundred meters away. I was with a group of people about 500 meter away from the square and I could merely discern the black silhouette of solders' block line about 300 hundred meters away due to there were a armoured vehicle was burning to light them. There were a lot of machine guns's shots, but all toward air or earth for threat. We were not Jedi Knight and had not ability to dudge bullet if they wanted to shot us. I only saw several peope was hitted because the ground around of square was made of granite so some bullet shot at ground bounced and hitted at people. The students retreated from the square at dawn, leading by a Taiwan popular singer named Hou De Jian because all of their elected peasant family born democratic leaders have fled with American and French passports the last afternoon before the shooting began. All troops was block out side of Beijing downtown in 3rd June afternoon, peacefully with not any bloodshed. But something happened in the western end of Beijing downtown perhaps changed the course of the event. I was not here but someone was here told me, there was a guy who had been a solder in the troop that was blocked in the street. He talk to the solders and according the tradition of my country's respecting of predecessors, the soldiers let him and his friend into the armoured vehicle and he drived the vehicle move along the street, I think they did not understand what they did would lead to serious result. I suppose the rulers wathched on surveillance TV with horror for "mobs" had taken over this powerful weapon, they sent a helicoper hovered above the vichel and broadcasted with a speaker to warn the people must leave the vehicle. Someone on the top of the vihicle aimed the helicopter with the machine gun mounted on the vehicle (ecah China made model 531 armoured vehicle has a machine gun on it) and pulled the trigger, the gun shot. The helicopter fled away and I think this event lead to the communist government eventually made the decesion to crackdown the protest by firepower and convinced army leader because they thought the event had become a riot. I not sure what I said are absolutely truth, but it is coincident with the video China government published later to convince people the crackdown were right and necessary. The most casualty happened in the western end of the city. Please use your wisdom, Dancer. Could your friend stroll around when communists carryed bodys out of square? What are they? The killers? Or the Chinese peasant refugee seekers who makes up the story for refugee to take Canada welfare and charity funds with out hard working? If you come Beijing, you will find almost no where can overlook the square because almost no higher buildings laied around several miles away from the square. The emperors did not like pepole to overlook his palace and Mao did not like to be shot by snipers. The only place could overlook the square is the top of Beijng hotel, sites about 2 km away from the square. But I'm no doubt the police will block the top floor if they want to do something they don't want everyone konw.

Even if I'm not here I can also understand. But to those developing countries, where people lacks of the understanding of the principle of freedom, democracy, right and duty, and the very important thing, the tolerant, so the democracy(not only vote, I don't think democracy=vote) is not easy to be established. This is why in some country the horrible racial genocide happened after democracy was established. Just look into those mob pretesters in this Tibet event. If we agree Tibet is a part of China, so the Tibetan is minority in this county and Han is majority in this country. So under the Han majority rule, they have the rights to express their will of independence, I'm not sure they really understood this when they pretested, or mere acted as the decree of their living buddha. But if Tibet has become a country, in this country they will become the majority and Han will become minority under their majority rule. Have they prepared to respect the rights of minority? In the moment that they dominated the street, in the moment we all have watched from the video that the mobs and lamas attacted innocent people in the street and burned shops, I doubt as majority they could understand they have duty to protect the right of minority and they could respect other people's freedom. Just imagine, if a gold asteroid fell in Canada and the Globe Warming made Canada as warm as California so money and space were not the problems of acception of more immigrants, would you or everyone here likely want to have fifty million Tibetan refugee into Canada to share your freedom and democracy? Obvious there are not a lot of guys wanted this, not for racial reason, but for if they came, Canada would soon have an elected Lama PM and become a jape of the world. Or we assume there were some hostile ET have come to Mars so human being needs to unite its force and the whole world needs to become a "country" to fight the ET. Do you want the "world leader" to be elected? ---That means, those poor low-educated Chinese, Hindus, African peasants will become the majority of the new "country" for they have huge population meanwhile westerners will become the minority and loss the control of the world. Do you want this kind of "democracy" happening? Or do you think Amercian or NATO's "dictatorship" would be better? If Palestinian accepted that Palestine was a part of Israel, I doubt M.Dancer would agree Palestinian have the rights to elected Israel PM and senator just for he didn't want Israel would become a country to enforce Islamic Law. If I was a Chinese Canadian, I'm not sure I would agree the way conservative wanted to amend the immigration law. But if CPC wanted to accept 2 million Chinese not 20 thousand a year with the right of election, I'm sure I will be the first one who pretested them---only for fear of the Canada's "system" would soon become as the same as the "system" in China.

The "legal" organizations I mentioned just meant they not "illegal" organization such as terrorist organization. If these guys parade in a street, I think everyone have right to stop them. About registering a organization, I'm not sure "my" organization is as same as "your" organization. The organization I mentioned is a "formal" organization, not the organization merely consists of several friends such as some school kids' cats lover organizatioin. I think there have to have some kind of registeration to avoid two organizations using the same name. For example, there was a famous organization named "Tyranny Without Border", which always got a lot of fund from worldwide dictators. One day, I formed a organization with the same name, and advertised in newspaper, "Please remit you fund to our new account." So all dictator's goon bankers' money would pour into my account. I think this would be impossible. To those protesters who hold their protests peacefully, I agree that they have the rights to protest. About wether their protests are great, depends on what they were protesting, and what they wanted to achieve, not orally but essentially. About Tibet, I don't think that Lama's rule would be better than commnunists' rule. And I don't agree the protest was led by Lamas and a living buddha is a good thing. If thoses "great" people in Paris thinks vote is the only way to benifit these tribe people, why doesn't they go to Afghanistan to help NATO to establish a peaceful tribe voting paradigm? About "The last time that happened in China, 1000's died.", I don't know what you meant was the event in 1988 in Tibet or in 1989 in Beijing. If you meant the event in Beijing, I can tell you I was the one of the protestors in the street and that night I was in the street. The truth was not as the same as what "your" TV and those so-called democratic leaders told you though it also did not as the same as what the stated controlled TV said. But I don't think today is time to write the story I know for I'm still live in China. Perhaps one day I come Canada I would write my story here but perhaps I would not. Everyone just uses your wisdom to think, according the stated nespaper, there were 20 million protesters involved and only in Beijing, there were nearly 2 million. But where are they? All dead or being imprisoned? Lol. I think there are lot of them now lives in western but how many of them except those who absented so-called democracy leaders have wright out their stories? They don't want to talk because these story was not a story of people uprising tyranny, but the naive people was betrayed by those whom they have trusted in. Write out what I though needs a book. I'm sorry I could wright more. If you still have some trust on me, I suggest you before you decide what you will stand, you would be better read both side's story and try to find the truth by analysis with your wisdom not your commiseration. You will find the truth usually are different than medias and political figures wants us to think.

I think the thread even could be "independent" from Tibet, China, Olympic or communism. Please allow me to rewrite the "story" without changing the meaning of the thread: In a democratic country, there were two legal organizations. One named RWL, Rights Without Law . Another was its opposite named TWB, Tyranny Without Border . One day, RWL decided to hold a torch leg in the country to advocate its ideology to other people in this country. They had registered the movement in the country's government so the movement had been legal. Knowing the news with horror, for if Rights Without Law got success Tyranny Without Border would lose, so TWB decided to hold a protest against the RWL's movement. They also registed their movement so it is also legal in this country. But in the day, TWB member went, just as its name, out of its legal border into its opposite's route trying to block the leg and snatch the torch. They enfored the RWL's movement went into mess and cut it short by violence. My question is: Is TWB's way the way that could be accepted in a democratic country?

Of course you needn't "follow" me for everyone here have the right of free speech. But traditionally, in a forum if there was someone who started a topic and there was another one who want to discuss another issue which were irrelevant with the topic, he'd be better to start a new topic. For one: If there was a new immigrant posted,"When I was waiting bus at a bus stop, someone snatched my china-made cell phone and smashed it for protest something happened in China. Is it right way in a democracy system?" Someone responsed, "I know China government are one-party rule, China media was stated-controlled and how many people was executed in China a half a century ago." Though the response mostly are truth but would you think it might be better to be put in an independent post? I don't think so. If they protested with a peaceful way, it would be more effective to back their opinion. But the way they adopt are really backing China government's opinion---the so-called protesters were not looking for improvement of human rights and democracy, but were just desperately tring to shame China---and eventually they will lose for they could persuade neither their athletes nor most of their politicians to boycotte Beijing Olympic Games. Yes, there was a slightly different bewteen a man who was unsuccessfully trying to kidnap something and the man who had kidnaped somthing. We need not to forget the history. But if we let the resent inherited from the history to dominate all our daily live, I think it will be wrong especially in that time the opposite of communists were also not merciful ruler. In 1950s and 1960s in Taiwan, if anyone who was found as a communist and refused to betray his faith and party, his fate would be no different with those his opposites who was killed or imprisoned in mainland of China. And if you reviewd the newspapers published by western media during Vietnam War, you would sadly find that not only the communists was the fan of "street execution".

I think you have misunderstood the intention of the topic I raised here. Just think about why I put the post here, in Political Philosophy not the Rest of World. For another one: a. If I posted here,"Lamaism is the best way to pull down Communism." I think there would be a lot of people would disagree with me. Someone may think I'm stupid or ignorant, but I did not get humiliated for my effort of expressing my ideology. b. If there was a communist he posted here to response me, "Communism is best way to instead of Lamaism." I think there would be also a lot of people would disagree him. Someone may think he is stupid or ignorant, but he also did not get humiliated for his effort of expressing his ideology. c. If I was very angry to his opinion, so I sent up some computer virus to wreck his post by making his post to mess of stupid words which everyone could laught, I think it would be me whom got humiliated not him. d. If he adopted the same way to react my deeds, I think he also got humiliated. e. If he or I got so angry for I or he was a member of the forum and used the forum to express my or his opinion, so he or I wreched the posts of everyone who posted in the forum, I think it would be the most humiliated scandal in the history of this forum and the humiliation belonged to him or me, not others.

quoted from CNN website: Olympic torch hit by protests during Paris leg I'm very funny of that those people who alleged themselves as guardians of human rights and freedom have no respect to other people's rights and will by using violence to enforce their value and idea to others. Why did they use extinguishers to extinguish the Olympic torch for enforcing their ideology to other people in their country? A suicide bomb would be more "effective" than an extinguish. I'm also very funny that some "writers", who called themselves reporters, have made themselve into their "story" as leading actors for lacking real actors to show their "spectacular" stunt.

Why did you want to force the politicians who was elected by Canadian to act according your value and ideology? Do you think that an elected politician's policy needs depending on media moguls's and human rights activists' will and interests not on his voter's will and interests is a good thing? If politicians was manipulated by medias, it would be no different from medias was manipulated by politicians.

"My" communist chairman have never attended Sudanese King's inaugural ceremony but only keeps the economic ties with Sudan for benefiting China national interests, so he is also a good guy. I guess what you mentioned are from CNN's website: Rogge reassurances over Beijing pollution "The health of the athletes is absolutely not in any danger," Rogge said Saturday. "It might be that some will have to have a slightly reduced performance, but nothing will harm the health of the athletes. The IOC will take care of that." It would be geting far interestinger if CPChina chairman needed to be elected by westerners....

Quebecan not only allowed French Canadian to vote in these referenda, but also allowed all people who lived in quebec to vote. If China was as what as it was accused by Dalai Lama that have immigrated a lot of Han people into Tibet, I doubt how Dalai Lama could win the vote. About Taiwan, if Quebec had been occupied by Japan for 50 years and all patriots was killed and pupil was forcefully tought they were Japanese not Canadian before the end of WW2, then it have been "protected" by America force from Canada control for another 50 years and reading Canada newspaper, watching Canada TV, advocating Canada government's policy were illegal, the result of the referendum would be far different. Liberate who? Those people who was denied the rights of seating in the same row in a cinema or bus with white guys nearly one hundred years after the war ended? A TV controlled by state does not mean everything it told us are lies. And those so-called objective weatern medias are not alway objective, or else one newspaper is enough. For one. I am just a common Chinese engineer who applied immigration to Canada and my family, include my parents and grandparents have never had a communist member. I have join this forum for nearly a year and have show a lot of my knowledge of western. The western tourists witness of event I quoted to back my opinion was from TheStar and CNN websites not Chinese media. But this forum still have a lot of people believe or insinuate my brain was manipulated by "my" communist paper or state controlled TV. And Rue actually belived I was vulnerable of these kind of manipulation because my education was based on Confucianism ---sounds like she was talking my grandfather----meanwhile she believes Lamas and living buddha believers were immune from any kind of manipulating. If manipulation could be defined as "to be banned or self baned to read opposote opinion ", why people here would not like bother themselves to look into this China state controll newspaper website Lhasa riot reports show media bias in West to read some opposite opinion? Before Mr. Harper was elected as Canada PM, Liberal has come into power for 13 years and the Canadian Parliament did not cancel the right of conservative could be elected for Liberal have been elected several times by Canadian. If the independence referendum was the certain right, the parliament would have no right to cancel it. Really? If you was a Palestinian and lived in Gaza, would you gladly accept you kids to be a suicide bomb because the majority of the residents agreed this way?

Did you mean China should deny Quebec is Canada territory? Or have British ever recognized the Confederate State of American in American Civil War? China communist government banned these in all China territory, not only in Tibet. This is a problem of their ideology, not racial repression. The south states had held a free election for themself, but America federal government just refused to recognize it and sent troops to cancel the result of the election. And of course, British have never allowed American had a election for their independence. And I have never rememberd Israel or Canada supported Hamas for them won the election of Palestine in 2006. And the Parliament of Canada have actually canceled the rights of holding independence referendum of Quebec since 1999, by the Clarity Act. Quebec sovereignty movement Perhaps Canadian politicians should lecture Chinese communist politicians to adopt some Canadian political brightness. I said these seriously.

I remember there was a actor's line in film STAR WARS: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leds to anger. Anger leds to hate. Hate leds to suffering."

I remember I have ever watched a film about 15 years ago. It was about a Jewish family lived in Germany in 1930s. At first of the film, their life was not different with other German. But one day Nazi took the power and tagged each Jew with a yellow star on their chest. Then everything had been changed since then. Wherever they came, people might say,"Look these guys with yellow tag. They are Jews so whatever they did are always for Jewish interests." Perhaps they were not very unlucky for Israel was not a country then so people could not tag them as agents of Israeli embassy. Countries was defined by wars because countries were formed in the age of wars and conquers were fashion, far earlier than the time of people had learned to solve their problem by vote. I'm not sure if my sentence were syntax wrong. Of course I know American Indian are aboriginal people of Canada. I just meant the term of First Nation, which I supposed was created by politicians, was a so-called term. So there have ever been Hitler and Nazi, I still regard german are a honest and responsible nation for they have never told everyone, "Hitler is a citizen of the Third Reith not a German." I know your stand. I agree it's legally correct that those immigrants I mentioned were British and French, not Canadian. I appologize to everyone for my ignorance of the mean of the word. And thank you for reminding me. Rue, I wish to answer each part of your post. But I think there have a huge divarication between us about how to comprehend the history of Canada, which is supposed as your legally perfect nation, far perfect than China and British, for "your nation" was found by peace, election, humanrights and multiculturalism when it was established, and "our nation" were found by wars, conquerors of Kings and Emperors thousands years ago. I could not plead for "my nation" when I was facing on a such perfect nation. So I give up. About some fault of China, I have stated my opinion of that ideology can not be considered as the cause for independence. I am also dislike these faults, so I applied to migrate to Canada, without bring away any China territory such as my courtyard. Nevertheless if you really concern about Tibetan and their opinion, I suggest you should make a tour to Tibet soon, I suppose the tourism will resume some months later, observe them, talk to them. I also suggest you make a tour to India, to visit the town of DaLai Lama's headquarter, talke to them, observe which kind of Tibetan they are. You would find the reality is far more different than the imagine you watched on TV.

I doubt Serbians' fate in Kosovo was due to that their incumbent government reufused to embrace capitalism or democracy.

I'm sorry I have never directly responding your thread. I think you were too trusting in those political figures' orally declarations. Orally, both Bush and Fidel Castro were talking democracy, but we could not expect them to sit in the same table to talk about how to build democracy in the world. I think the vital deviation between Dalai Lama and China government is: China government: you give up your political power and only to be a "spirit leader" of Lamaism Dalai Lama: you give up your political power and only to be a "spirit leader" of sovereignty Just as Mr.Bush's democracy is Mr.Castro to power down and Mr.Castro's democray is Mr.Bush to power down. Who may belive them would have willing to talk democracy seriously?

In my comprehension, the concept of a country was defineded by historical factors, such as treaties between nations and the results of wars, not by people's votes, races or ideologies. Canada for one. Everyone knows Canada was found by British and French immigrants, of course and so-called First Nation, American Indians. But the foundation did not due to all these people's willing and wasn't by a peaceful vote. I guess for a long time, the conquerors were happy and some of them are still happy meanwhile the people who were conquered were unhappy and some of them are still unhappy. If we adopt the principle of countries could be defineded by races or cultures, why couldn't we agree South Africa's apartheid policy was better? ---everyone knows Negro majority was unhappy under the white minority rule in the country and I guess white minority is unhappy now under the Negro majority rule. If a country could be defined by religions or ideologies, why there wasn't a liberal-Canada, a conservative-Canada, a NDP-Canada, a Islamic-Canada or a Lamaism-Canada? Why this kind of vote-establishing countries shoud not be encouraged? Let's presume there is a country, have two regions of A and B, and two races of A_a and B_b. The race A_a is majority in the country and mainly lived in region A, and B_b is minority and mainly lives in region B. B_b is unhappy under race A_a's majority rule so they want separating from the country and build their own country in region B. But the problem is, when the race B_b is happy for their majority rule of region B, those people of race A_a residing in region B will become minority and will be unhappy for their ruled by majority race B_b, so they will also have rights of independence----this was exactly happend in Kosovo now. Perhaps vote-deciding-all believers would allow these guys making another independence. But the new country will also have various religions, ideologies, parties, men, women and kids....and liberals will be unhappy if conservatives are government , or converservatives will be unhappy if liberals are government ...perhaps eventually everyone have to build his own single-person-only country, so everyone will be all happy and harmonious country would become reality.

Exactly, I have never remembered western politicians had ever telephoned Israeli leader to pressed him to "talk" to Arafat just several days after Hamas mobs killed tens of Israeli civilians in the street. Of course, Russia and China leaders have never did this too. I think it is too rude and cruel to victim. You should pay little attention to western media so-called "uprising" in 1959, Dalai Lama fleed to India at that time. You should not suppose these rebels were unarmed to act against Mao. Behind Dalai Lama's holy cloak If Israel had one billion people and was as big as China and Arabian was only 3 million, I doubt there would be any Arabian dare to say wiping out all Israeli except he don't care others think he is an idiot. By which way could you know these? LoL. I have never heard of any refugees in Canada trying to overthrow Canada government. Israel, Palestinians agree to end violence I have almost forgotten Arafat has also gotten a Nobel Peace Prize just like Dalai Lama. The name of this Prize seems not fit to those guys who openly insists in killing. Like Dalai Lama, he just "powerless" to stop killing, according to them states. If China government hired some mobs to gundown every pretestors in Tibet, then orally denounced mobs but said they were just "powerless" to stop mobs, would you think Dalai Lama needs "talk" to this powerless one? I don't know how many people got killed in Mao's time just as I don't know how many American Indian got killed by "your" Immigrants.----LOL, I have not owed any prisons and you have never killed any Indians. This age has gone. Of couse everyone know China government banned any open protests but that dose not mean that all protestors are correct and honest. If you think all western journalists are fair-minded just for western countries are democratic, I think you must be too naive. If democracy could guarantee newspapers' justness, Canada would only need one newspapers. Perhaps Canada would only need one political party if democracy could also guarantee the justness of politicians. I think you didn't know how Lamas in Tibet was made by kid-brain-manipulators. I have visited several Lama temples for tour. Most Lama comes from those poor tribe families, their illiterate parents donate one their teenager children to temple, for they believe buddhas will reward them in afterlife. These kids was enclosed in darksome temples. Their day-to-day work only is to listen a senior clergy's buddhism lectures and worship their living buddha. It is too cruel to this kids for they have never had themself choice before they become adults and have their idea of their life. I have no doubt if Tibet is a Canadian province this kind of kid-manipulating will be banned. I also have no doubt if China banned this kind of things in Tibet, it would be a sin of "destroying Tibet culture". Allowing them pray in their temple is not equivalence recognizing them as a country. I'm not aware what you said was relative to this thread. Alas! If you told me you would boycotting me immigrating Canada, I might be behavior better.

Thank you for your trust.

I think I'm the fit man to say sorry to you for my misunderstanding of your words. I doubt a CIA agent don't have a satellite cell phone or something to communicate to his boss in time. But even if they haven't, the world will finally know what happened in Tibet. I don't care what kind of guys that you think those communists are, but obviously they are far more policital clever than those tribe mobs. That means they know it is good to them if they can control the situation by a less bloodsheding way. I almost have no doubt they will adopt this way. I don't know who is Geoffrey York. I guess to be an "old China hand" repoter, he would have wright a lot of "stories" about how these tribe people are civilized, peaceful and merry guys, I have seen a lot of similar stories in western media before the event happened, how they are different from other uncivilized tribe people around world. So now those mobs' action might make him little embarrassing and let him felt he had to do something to make up what he told his reader earlier even if he needed to use "evidence" coming from Delhi, everyone know Dalai Lama's headquarter is in India. And I doubt even if a pathologist could be sure the cause of the death of a guy only depending on a photo of corpse. I'm sure you will not agree with my hypothesis. Then let us adopt that the picture is truth, and the guy was shotted by Tibet police not mobs. But why police have not right to shoot him? Perhaps he was grabing a patrol policeman's hand gun or killing innocents when he got shot. Even if China government have ordered police hold their fire, that don't means any policeman would not use his gun to defence himself from being killed or protecting innocent being killed when he faced on a lot of mobs. I don't believe Bush have ever had the power to control the press. If there were any American reporters who supported the invasion not according his willing, he might be following his readers' willing not Bush's. I have no doubt that most of Americans knew Saddam's scientists lacking the ability to build a atomic bomb before the invasion happened. They just ignored the truth and let the invasion happen because they thought the war would benefit their country and themselves interests. I think the important thing is not how many shootings have happened or whether they have happened, but which guys got shots from police or troops according to China government's decree. If there is a peaceful protestor got shot, western media condemned China government are reasonable. If the police shot mobs in the circumstance of there are a lot of mobs and only few policemen so the policemen could not arrest them by other way, the police's action would be reasonable.

I'm not sure I have correctly understanded these words. Would you mean I'm not the quilified people who have the rights to express opinion under your post? Or just accuse I'm a lier? I think this web forum is a public forum for common people to express their opinion of politics and related issue, not only for scholars. That means everyone can participate discussion even if his opinion is not correct from the view point of expertise. I'm not sure what I said were truth. I just tried to say those things that I think they are truth, according both of the knowledge and my analysis. If anyone disagreed with my state, he could enlighten me by pointing out which parts of my state wrong. Your hypothesis seems reasonable. But I don't think reading newspapers and watch TVs are the only way of western leaders to know what happened in Tibet. Communists could not dispel all CIA secret agents in Tibet. If there had anything you worried happened, Bush would know and I don't think he would still have the mood to refuse changing his trip to Beijing for watching Olympics. I don't know why Burmese banned journalists, but I guess the reason of banning journalists into Tibet is as same as America banning foreign journalists companying their troops when they invaded Iraq. They just don't want rioters and their leader or instructor who lives in foreign countries know where their troops have arrived from western media. Tibetans do not only live in Tibet, there are also a lot of them lives in neighbour provinces. Even Beijing also have a Tibet Lama Temple. I doubt there exists a country or region that all of its people are happy or unhappy. China today is more capitalism in economic aspects than any western countries. So some guys may be happy because they are winners of the "system" meanwhile some guys may be unhappy because they are losers under the system. Just as Canadian in this forum, some are happy, some are unhappy. Fig. Lama Temple in Beijing I agree, I just want anyone need to respect others rights especially life and property when they claim themselves rights. About this, I would agree China government, the Olympics will be successfully hold, and Mr.Bush and Mr.Brown will come. That the media moguls have the power to manipulate countries as big as China going into conflicts with other countries is a fantasy story in the Jame Bound's film named Tomorrow Never Die not reality. In this Tibet event, the witnesses of western tourists supplied vital restrictions to those anti-China fantasy "writers" and their medias. I guess this is what those Olympic blockers feared. They just want people to stay at home reading their books, not come to China to see the reality by their eyes. Ironically, it is China government who wants people to come. They want people come to see painted grass, human kidney bazaars, poisonous rivers, smothering smoke air....and people riots, then go back home to tell their friends how China are worse. They did have a lot of voice in government. They have a Tibetan in parliament of central government as vice chairman---though China parliament have no power to kick cpc down like Canada , but it is a good place for local governments collect funds for their people from central government. The premier of Tibet is a Tibetan communist (the secretary of party is a Han). Most police officers and riot polices soldiers(those who likes soldiers with glass shield) in Tibet are Tibetan ---people could not suppose a policeman might fulfil his duty without speak local language. I don't think so. But we can wait to see what would happen.

I think most of western people have overestimated Dalai Lama's power and influence in Tibet people. The population of Tibet is 2.5 million. I don't think there were a lot of them rebeled in recent event. There are thousands of temples in Tibet. If all of them rebelled, I doubt China government could control the situation in only several days especially they obviously does not seem to suppress protesters with firepower---that means they could not use one soldier against several protesters if the soldier's gun are useless. Western people should understand there are a lot of "living buddhas" in Tibet and almost each temple have a one. Lamas and believers's loyalty depend on their living buddhas' loyalty. It is not every temple loyal to Dalai Lama even before the time when communists ruled Tibet. The imperor was not fool. When he established Dalai Lama's power he also established another "living buddha" named Panchen Lama for diversion. When Dalai Lama was out in 1958, communists let the Panchen Lama's system to charge Tibet religional affair. This means some ever very powerful temples' power, this temples belongs to Dalai Lama's system, falled since 1958. This is why Lama's rioting always come from these temple. Dalai Lama obviously even could not control those mobs who lives in western countries to smash China embassies. I don't think he wants things going so far unless he is a political idiot. He is just powerless as he have said. I have no doubt he will be welcomed by China government if he gives up his political ambitions to be a pure clergy in his temple. But if he wants to regain his political power before 1958, I doubt China government will allow him to come back Tibet and I also doubt any western politicians would like a clergy to manipulate their domestic politics. I think the better way of running political business is to let politicians not a "living buddha" to run it. If the political business was runned by politicians, people might say:"oh, I think what he said is not good for me, I would act against him, and support the one who fit my demands." If the political business was runned by a "living buddha", people might think:"oh, I think his proposal is not good for me....no, I shouldn't think that, it's a sin to think a buddha would wrong, I should obey he willing...."----I guess this is why those barbaric things alway happened in those clergies ruled countries.

terrorism The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. I don't think those mobs in Tibet were "general" killing people. They did these for political "reason", didn't they? Biologists can compare a man with a dog for both of them have two eyes, one mouth and four limbs, etc. And some men such as terrorists might attack innocent people to relieve their anger like a mad dog.