Catchme

In some ideal land of rainbows and unicorns, your right, they should be representing all Canadians equally. But in the inherently partisan system Westminster parliament gives us, each party has to represent their views on committe. If your MP's are representing your views, especially the views of the government, that's a big problem. Having no government voice on a committee is an issue, no? It is not an either or situation geoffery, and again you are being extremely partisan if this was the Liberal government ignoring a court order you would be screaming. And it is not too much to expect our elected offical to respresent us, and suggesting that I live in a fanatsy world for expecting them to do so, it quite the comment. Suggesting that it is okay they do not, and that it is okay that their there to be completely supporting their own agenda even if they are committing treason and breaking the law, is also quite the statement. It is actually advocating a dictatorship. Why then was everyone furious with the Liberals for ad scam?

I should have phrased it as not superior rights, but legislated racial advantages. For example, certain races get jobs with the government easier. Please provide proof of this Please provide this proof, it is not up to me to research your assertations. If you had proof other than hearsay I believe you would've provided it. Again, we have been over this fallacy before here, there is no proof to suggest this correct. Hiring for community policing in minority enclaves is not setting the bar higher or lower. It seems more like griping/whining that traditional white male priviledge is being eradicated. Rather than having facts to back up assertations. Again that is not proof, that is you saying it is so. provide proof please. What is the difference between Hutterite and Mennoite enclaves, and what they wear that does not fit cultural norms, are you suggesting they be told what to wear, what not to wear, and how to behave too? What about Mennonites refusing to go to war, but yet advocating for war, should they be forced to go participate in the military? And accept our way of life? Should funding be cut to religious schools or Ukaranian schools because they refuse to fit into our public school system? How about those Mennonites who left Canada because they did not like government interference in their lives but yet came back to advocate against government? Should they be go back to where they came from too? Why would they have to do that that is completely illogical and irrational thinking. Then everyone else would have to give it up as well, as they were developed long after settlers came to Canada too, including your ancestors too geoffery. Should Ukaranians give up their culture? Because according to your premise they should, and they are not. Nor are the Mennonites and Hutterites, say nothing of Mormon enclaves like Bountiful or Claresholm. What majority are you speaking of Georfery there is NO actual singular majority in Canada that fully encompasses one ethic or cultural group? Well , you are seeing it wrong geoffery, If everyone else can enjoy their cultural heritage, and enjoy the luxuries of moddern society so can FN's. Are all the Mennotite, Scottish, German, Russian homesteaders still supposed to be living in sod shacks because that is what they lived in when they came to Canada? They are doing it on their own dollar, there is still so much outstanding debt owed to them it is ridiculous. They are not saying they want to live like an ancient person. Pursuing your own cultual heritage has absolutely nothing to do with living like an ancient person. It seems you want to have double standards geoffery one for the rest of those pursuing their and living in their cultural heritage, while not wanting FN's too. And as for your comment about not wanting to contribute, it is not even worth giving a response to it. As it is so far from reality that it is unbelievable. Canada would not even be the country it is without FN's and their actions.

It seems that Cullen's riding is very upset with the stance he took about extending the 2 sunset clauses that breach constitutional rights. And his trying to undercut his own leader. Ridings getting involved actively fighting the extension and breaches of human rights

We are already working on those things geoffery, we do not need a North American Union that only benefits global corporations. And national sovereignty is not a silly concept, and no I would not give up Canada so my standard of living would increase, and sure as heck won't with a North American Union. In fact it would decrease, the only benefit would be to the already utltra rich. Do you think Harper and the CPC would have even had a sniff at at getting into power if they campaigned on this? No! That is why they are doing it in secret, as I said if it was at all beneficial to Canadians they would be selling us on the benefits instead of secrecy. If it would be of benefit to Americans the Bush government would not be doing this in secret either, they would be all over it in a heart beat. The accusations of treason by those advocating this and moving towards it in secret, have been made by US politicians, they are correct. If you want to be an American please do leave.

You just don't get it. Parties put members on committees to represent the views of the parties. If you don't agree with the party, your not going to take up their valuable seat on the committee. What is so freaking hard to grasp about that? You don't have your protest members on committee. The government is investigating this matter anyways... non-issue. No actually, you do not get it geofery the MP are supposed be there representing Canadians not party views and they are supposed to be dealing in truth not lies and definitely NOT breaking the laws of the land and ignoring court rulings. From Hitis link: It goes to show that some, well 1 CPC MP, actually have their priorities right. and a couple of old PC senators. Moreover excusing this, is sheer blind partisanship, and if it was the Liberals doing this the CPC and their apologists would be screaming from the roof tops.

Since your unwilling to agree that the SCC does, we have: Michael Ignatieff in his book The Lesser Evil (I highly encourage you to read it if you wish to hear about how badly we need these provisions from a Liberal), Irwin Cotler (former Justice Minister, might know something about it...), Bob Rae (former head of the investigation that needs these provisions to convict terrorists), and Anne McLellan (the author of the bill, a wise Liberal that see's the hard left turn and what it will cost Canadians in their security). I think the Bob Rae comments are most damning. Dion, as he's a wise wise man, thinks that Air India criminals can be found out without the provisions. Mr. Rae, who led the investiation disagrees. You tell me, who should we listen to? Then again, with elements in the party protecting family members and the such from investigation, maybe I understand where Dion is coming from. He's very nice to sacrifice so much (Canadian security) to help out some buddies that supported him in the leadership convention. What an honest and caring individual he is. Someone told Dion to lead the party against this... against all expert opinion (you won't find any experts taking his side). The only logical choice is the extremist ethnic wing of the Liberal party, which contains a group that is essientially the prime target of the Air India investigation. If no one told Dion to lead the party against these provisions, then I must conclude that Dion is nuts and a power hungry madman that ignores all expert voices and makes decisions by talking to Kyoto the dog. The SCC does not and I have challenged you to prove that it has and you haven't, while I and others have proven over and over again that they disagreed, so, 'nuff said about the SCC agreeing until you provide proof. Michael Ignatieff voted with the opposition and against the extension, perhaps he got some more facts and read the SCC on security certificates and what they sade about personal liberties and due process, eh? It would seem so as that is what was said. Cotler did not vote with the CPC, he abstained so please do not try and say he supports it as he does not. He disagreed with both, and felt that changes should be made instead of the CPC playing crass political games. Bob Rae is not an elected official, and he has an issue with Dion winning the leadership, and I find it amazing that the CPC and their apologists are championing Rae after years of trashing him. The Air India investigation rhetoric is a red herring pulled out and nothing more.

It is a usenet axium that as soon as someone mention's Hitler you know there won't be any intelligent thought in the conversation so you should just deep six them then and there. That's certainly true in this case. How about you tell Condi, Cheney and Rumsfeld about the usenet axiom? http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/26/s...facts-straight/ And the false compares they were speaking of in regards to Hitler and Iraq:

Well, well, well, looks like there is going to be legal action taken against the apologist for the CPC, for more of the typical lies we see coming from them each and every day now. MP threatens legal action John Stewart Feb 28, 2007 http://www.mississauganews.com/mi/news/sto...p-4504741c.html

The EU is working and some countries are not liking what is happening at all. Especially Britian. We are not fire walling Canada by staying out of a NA Union, we are not fire walled now, why would be then, that is absolutely an absurb statement. And we can freely trade all we want, we are doing it right now. Geoffery, if it was all good, why are they doing it in secret, eh? Says much about the lies of how good it is supposed to be for us, if so they could sell it to us on that premise, they can't. Here is another good link for people to watch to see how bad it is for us.

We all can't possibly plant enough trees to offset all of our excesses. Our standard of livings are all going to have to be massively sacrificed in order for us to significantly reduce emissions as a sum. Based on intensity (a real indicator of progress), it's much easier and productive. But if we want to keep ourselves at 1990 levels, each time a child is born or an immigrant arrives, we all need to scale back to make up for that. No new business because they add to GHG. Ugh, it's ugly. We either sacrifice our standard of living or our lives, and our childrens and grandchildren's lives. What do you mean based on intensity? New business development has nothing to do with it, unless you x5 tar sands expansion, it is the current industries that using coal fired plants, natural gas burning that are contributing. We do not need to plant more trees that take 75 years to grow to become suitable sinks for carbon. We need to stop cuttiing them for pulp and paper. Industry needs to find alternative energy sources or combine for dual use, or triple use of that energy consumption and GHG emissions. Gore buys equal alternative energy credits for the electricity he uses. Nothing hyprocritical in his position.

Does that mean the Liberals all admit they were wrong and were attempting to deprive Canadians of their rights the first time? Or is it just politically tasty for Dion to pretend to be Mr. Leader on a high profile issue when in fact any expert in his party disagrees with the stance he took? Actually, Dion did admit they were wrong to have put the clauses in and noted it was a good thing they were sunset. What expert disagrees with him?

At what expense? We coddle these minorities to the point where they all have far superior rights than we do. Early Canadians, recent immigrants, visible minorities, whatever. I'm sure the education rates would be higher in the RoC too if we all got the subsidizes and affirmative action that 'FN' do. And why exactly are we cheering on people that are finally meeting society norms. I think we should say 'about time', and then look at the other far greater majority of their populations that live in complete poverty. The only way to bring these folks up is to cut the special treatment, all that crap. When all Canadians, regardless of race, have an equal amount of rights and freedoms, then we'll be progressing here. Coddling minorities will only lead to their further reliance on the state (and therefore they become more engrained in block voting with political parties). What superior rights do they have please detail and link them, as that is fabrication? How are we coddling minorities? Again provide examples. They are not meeting society norms they are working within their own cultural framework, recapturing what was lost and buiding lives for themselves against a great deal of opposition.

No sorry, it does not work to try and trash the messenger. There were plenty of US politicians in that link, Republican ones even, who rightly point out that it is treasonous, both there and here in Canada, to being doing this outside of government bounds, to try and say it is Lou Dobbs is disengenuous. Harper can be blamed, as there has been more intensified meetings since he took office the last being last Friday. He is rushing it forward even without public consultation. It seems he is in league with the Martin New World Order crowd heh? There will not be more competitiveness. It will take away our sovereignty and give it to Global corporate elites. It is ultimate isolationist behaviour, fire wall North America.

Give me some examples of how it benefits Canada, as opposed to political pimps allegedly leading some of these communities, or Liberal or NDP MP's pandering for votes. Oh, how nice, negative labels to try and discount multi-culturalism successes by excluding ethnic politicians from being included. And what about the CPC's content of ethnic MP's, why would you only list Liberal and NDP MP's as pandering for votes? Sorry, that doesn't work, they are no different than any other politician, label 1 label them all. Moreover, the fact ethnic minorities, are actually able to obtain politcal leadership positions in Canada, on much greater quantity level, unlike the majority of visible minorities in the USA, says a good deal about mutlti-culturism successes. There are significant amounts of FN's who are Drs, lawyers, world renowned respected artisans, very successful business owners, FN banks and FN Economic development groups, and the numbers are growing. And their respective cultures are being envigorated. The are well respected and extremely profitable business owners from all differing types of immigrating ethnicities that are visible minorities. There is not the extreme ghettoization of minorities in Canada as there is in the USA, most live in middle income neighbourhoods in good housing, with well paid jobs across all the sectors, who are not working 1.5 jobs in order to support 1 person.

Far better than collecting EI. Do they have EI is the USA? Here in Canada, employees pay large into it so they can collect it, if needed, affter all it is their money they are collecting, and EI has nothing to do with assimulation, how odd that you mention it!

Here is a link to a shortened Lou Dobb's CNN commentary on youtube about the Bush Harper et al plot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyUkwW7z7Lc...related&search=

Wow, what a great story of assimulation working, that one example who is most likely a decendant of slaves, now has freedom. Freedom to work 1 and half jobs in order to survive. Now that's assimulation for ya heh?! Plus, there is the fact that your stories have absolutely nothing to do with assimulation vs multi-culturalism. I can give you 10's of thousands of examples of how actually succcesssful multi-culturalism is in Canada, that by far out strip the successes in your little stories.

Actually, there has been plenty of evidence posted here connecting the CPC and Paul Fromm and even to Zundel and it was not just a stated connection, it was physical placement. Both in this link and this one: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....5&gopid=190596& They can consistently deny whatever they want but it does not make so.

Was any vote not whipped on this? The NDP they have been consistent on this from the get go. There is no news coming out about repercussions from the Liberals today, so perhaps the vote wasn't whipped there either. Maybe Dion just said: "do what you want I willing to gamble that the many more will see that the sunset clauses break the Charter and it won't pass" That would solve any revolt within, if it wasn't. They could choose not to be there, abstain or vote for an extension with the CPC. Instead of voting against their party majority, perhaps the 11 just decided to stay away.

And when their lies are exposed Steve's Cons are ..... oh so quiet. There is an interesting youtube link you might be interested in.

It is a usenet axium that as soon as someone mention's Hitler you know there won't be any intelligent thought in the conversation so you should just deep six them then and there. That's certainly true in this case. Perhaps it should not be a usenet axiom, as it seems to close discussion when perhaps it should not. Considering the CPC ties to neo-Nazi Paul Fromm that are exposed in this thread. Noticed you over looked those facts and one would think it should be discussed. And considering the Guardian link that says: Then of course there is CNN's Lou Dobbs levelling accusations against Stephen Harper as well. http://www.bcpolitics.ca/left_spp.htm IMV, all facts are relevent and should not be dismissed lightly.

Somehow, I do not doubt this at all.

More on the NAU and the illegal attempt by the Bush and harper governments to create a North American Union. Even the Republicans are against it. http://www.bcpolitics.ca/left_spp.htm

Because they would get their ass*s kicked off the committee and moved to seats behind the curtains. These Con whipped puppies do as they are told. Click on environment update at the top of the page. http://www.sierraclub.org/ Yes, they would, and so much for "the greening of the CPC " more smoke and mirrors. Thanks for the link

Interesting the Keable Inquiry report that used to be on lin is now unaccessable! Though there is information on it avaiable on line. There were a couple of mail box bombs and thefts, etc but there ended up being more RCMP in the FLQ than FLQ they had the majority. In fact, there may be a thread on this right here that was about the alleged re-emergence of the FLQ, that I noted a great deal of the Keable on report will look for it later. The site below gives a break down of events. http://www.mcgill.ca/files/maritimelaw/E.doc