Jerry J. Fortin

Apples and oranges my friend.

I will suggest that each province is a region, each a distinct society, each with its own government. If that is good enough for Quebec then its good enough for me.

Now why does that not apply to airplanes folks?

We can't legislate that way, I agree completely. But we can change the system to enhance democracy. We can change the system to reduce bureaucracy. We can change the system to reduce expenses. We can do all this and more, all it takes is participation in the political process as already defined within the law.

I am not saying that there is or is not public support. That would be stretching the truth outside of the envelope just a little. We are talking about the Harper government desire to implement Senate Reforms. It is a Steve agenda thingy not mine. He is the one suggesting to the public by means of partisan political policy that the nations people desire changes to the Senate. Strangely enough Harper is deciding what is best for us, and you folks are taking the bait! This is what majority governments are all about, implementing agendas. They cannot be prevented from seeking an opinion from the representatives of the people and legislating according to that partisan consensus. To return to your point then, I state clearly that the amending formula is part of the problem, yet not all of it. How is it possible to "reform the constitution unconstitutionally" ? The key to our little problem here is that the high court supports the federal model defined such as it is within the terms and conditions of the constitution act of 1982. In that document you will find that it is possible to step outside of the box, and use a First Ministers meeting to place proposals from the provinces to the Federal Government. A proposal introduced there could be taken by the federal government and they could draft legislation around it then pass it in the Commons. At that point it would be up to the Senate, and that being controlled in partisan manner by the government at this time means enactment into law. The formal support of the provinces having already been obtained then it becomes a publicity stunt where all the smart politicians can hold hands and sing songs. Bringing change is not that hard for a majority government.

You don't see it as a problem, others do.

It certainly will not happen if the citizens don't demand it. Look the only right way to get this done is to build public support for the concept first. That means at least some form of consultation with the public. In my view the government should take the time and make the effort to formulate a functional concept of reforms and then gain public support by means of referendum. The First Ministers need to WANT to make some changes before anything happens at all. Without the provinces on board any effort is a waste of time. Armed with a referendum, the government can approach the high court and pick a path of loopholes to use to get the job done. Without the courts involvement in the process we are most likely doomed to fail. I say this because the Canadian Constitution is very nearly airtight in spite of what folks think. As it stands the courts answer the questions, go figure precedents are and have been set in the absence of law contained within the Constitution and that is the real problem.

I will suggest the best reform the Senate should experience would be a conversion to a regional model with equal representation from each province. Once that is done then we can bring the rest of the nation into the fold and divest federal control to the former territories as new provinces.

Really? Talk to me about the PMO........defined how and where? The Senate is not supposed to be merely a chamber of sober second thoughts, it was designed to represent a form of regional representation.....lets talk about how well that worked out. The Constitution is largely unwritten, much to the detriment of the people and much to the benefit of the government. The list goes on and on. Think about it.

The PMO is one of those things we need to look it within the confines of the Canadian Constitution. Go ahead and tell me where in that damned constitution such power is either defined or even suggested. The words Prime Minister are not exactly common at all within either the original 1867 version or the modern 1982 version of our constitution. Given that little fact, the discussion regarding the Senate pales in comparison. In truth, the Senate role within our legislative process is to say the least minuscule at best. Instead of merely Senate reform why not simply pursue realist constitutional amendments functionally relevant to the political process. Our constitution needs to first define and limit the powers and authority of government. Within the definitions of our governmental process all branches and or levels of government must be clearly specified. Once that has been resolved then legal limits to defined authorities can be determined and mechanisms put into place to attain accountability and entrench responsibility into every single department. Without power and authority being already defined by the constitution, how in the hell do we go forward? I will suggest that the Supreme Court is where this battle needs to be fought.

There remains nothing left of the old Reform Party. The concepts and policies so carefully designed are no more. No too far into the future Canadians will begin to control their representatives, only then can citizens initiate an agenda of public benefit. Until then, partisan benefit is all we will see, four long years of it.

The PC's were never about the centre and neither is the CPC. By design there gravitate toward the right. That is like saying the NDP is inching toward the centre, but in reality they just hang out on the left side of the equation. The Liberals were designed in the centre of our political spectrum, and there they remain. The last election and the three or four before it were about leadership and vision, not partisan policy. The majority of citizens don't give a damn about the political parties. Most of them simply don't vote at all. Canada has for the most part had governments with far less than a majority of popular support. Our politics have always been fractured by public opinion, and likely always will. I will suggest that a unite the "left" front will be formed over the next few years. Just prior to the next election the NDP and the Liberals will form a united front to unseat the government of the day. A coalition WILL form because the time is right, and the Conservatives cannot gainsay the effort having done the same thing themselves. Things are going to get interesting.

All true. Now is the time for the Conservative vision for this nation to take hold and produce results. Now is when we will see if there ever was a Conservative or Harper agenda, and if there was or is such an animal now would be the time to implement it.

It would be my hope that Ontario and or Quebec will not attempt to block Senate reform measures. Beyond any legislative attempt made in Ottawa, lets not forget each province has a say in Constitutional reforms as well. The entire subject is smoke and mirrors and Harper has no serious plan to actually implement change in regards to the Senate. Why would he? He is not finished stacking it, yet he already controls it. He has already told the back bench to be nice and toe the party line, does anyone think he hasn't talked to the Senate? Harper has taken control, believe it or not that is the way it is. To open the Constitution successfully, then debate the proposed changes, will not provide an assured outcome. At least not without the support and efforts of the provinces themselves. Anything that would detract from provincial authority or influence at the federal level must be carefully considered before being made public or official. Otherwise failure is the most likely outcome.

I see nothing wrong with Harper coaching his back benchers. That is what his job really is within our political system as it stands. The PM calls the ball, get over it. Given that he is now in a majority position, I would suggest to any naysayers that retribution will be quick. Harper now holds all the cards, any agenda he has will be realized shortly.

That would serve to nitpick some individuals work given that it is only a draft, likely composed of salient points anyway. In my view there are many who would choose to oppose change out of spite alone. What we have now is bad enough those same folks may say. I would think that prior to any functional attempt to open that can of worms the government of the day would be seeking some specific measure or alteration to begin with. I am not aware that such an animal exists at the moment.

The Liberals and the NDP will in fact merge. Not before a leadership convention is complete with the proper mandate of course, yet nonetheless a merge is the only way to defeat the Conservatives.

Well said.

The boomers have paid all the taxes, and they have drawn the services and programs that go with it. Now we are old and need healthcare. Guess who the majority of citizens are? Guess what will happen next unless we change the way we do things.....

Canadian politics do not as a rule shape world events. Yet the opposite is not true either. This is a unique land of diverse and respected opinions. Should this nation of citizens ever seriously attempt to venture into international relations with a fundamental purpose we would also be taking the necessary steps in our cultural evolution. Partisan affiliations not withstanding, Canadians are desirous of a big tent concept, grass roots revolution. The boomer generation is retiring and it wants to do some social engineering on the way out the door. The time is right for change, and most of us know it.

Aside from idle market speculation you mean?

If he is half the man his father was he is more than a match for our Prime Minister.

He is a;ready there. Here is my prediction, the largest transfer of public wealth into private hands in this nations history. Just exactly how will the government "create" jobs, hire even more public servants? Or more likely pay to hire people through tax breaks for the corporate sector. Expect a Klein approach to "fiscal responsibility" meaning program and services cuts. Welcome to Steve's world, like it or not the majority of citizens have chosen to support him. Now we will get what we deserve.

If this upward trend of support holds true, the NDP will in fact become the next government. Strangely, I agree with you, its a good thing for all. The people as a whole may have decided to grow a spine and voice their opinions. Those folks may in fact support the NDP.

Tears after the fact you might add. Quebec was a done deal, until now. The political landscape in this nation may be undergoing fundamental change. The "surge" of ND support is a game changer.