Jerry J. Fortin

That is the whole point! Instead of giving away tax dollars, invest them in the REAL economy. Call it nation building.

The government bailout cost the tax payers. That is the long and the short of it. Who got the money is not very important to me, I am sad to say it but it is true for me. I simple don't care who got the money because the fact remains that it was once my money and the government took it away. Since I have no say in the manner of funds taken from me by the government, the bastards can and do tax us at will, I won't waste my time worrying about it. In my view they should have let the companies fail, after that the government could have and should have picked the bones clean of those corporate carcasses. The transfer of public funds into private venture control has set a very dangerous precedent. How many times have we already subsidized private corporations, and how many more times will we do it in the future? Considering that the current government says one thing and does another with respect to discretionary spending, I will suggest that no help on problem resolution will be found within the government itself. Its time to rethink many things and government spending is the only place to start. I will suggest that the Liberals deciding to take a couple of years to choose a new leader suggests that they are planning to use the available time to morph the party into something worthy of public support. Keep in mind that the country export dependent. In Canada, the requirement is to produce or perish. The nation needs immediate and intensive industrial development and manufacturing capacity. In terms of resources and opportunities, our best gamble is the north. Canada needs once again to invoke crown corporations to get the job done. The long term plan associated with that is the privatization of those companies once they become fully viable and profitable. As soon as the company can be sold off to recoup the investment it should be done. Perhaps the governments should never be in business, but this is Canada. We have done it before, and we can do it again. Its time to do a lot of rethinking.

Try reading it first.

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 has been cited here as the basis for land claims disputes by First Nations. Stangely I find that after having read the document, of all other things the Crown lays claim to all lands within the nation, The crown reserves specific land for the use of First Nations. After this proclamation, other documents describe a means of transferring title to said lands to other than First Nations peoples. So in my view according to the proclamation, the crown owned all the land as defined within the document. It was the crowns, not native lands that was dispersed following the proclamation. Any questionable title therefore would revert to the "original owner" as defined by said law. I am sure that I will be told there is another way to look at the issue, but that is how I see it.

So Canada owns the First Nations like the USA owns Canada?

You misunderstand me. I believe the root cause of much within society to be to be found within the context of the definition of citizenship. The reality is that there are two forms of citizenship within this nation. There are corporate and natural citizens, and they are defined by law. By law corporate citizens are "entitled" to be treated in like manner to natural citizens. The true age of entitlement came into existence with the creation of corporations and the treatment of such corporations under the law. Originally designed to "limit liability", corporations were the creation of group investment with preferential tax treatment and judicial protection from liability. Government backed a few rich citizens to develop industries and create profit. Modern banking began at nearly the same time. We have now reached a point at which the corporate citizen has more rights and benefits than the natural citizen. We have redrawn old lines around a cast system that serves to divide citizens. The entire exercise has been detrimental to the improvement of the human condition, yet it did yield immense benefit to those at the top of the food chain within society. Yes the individual is of paramount consideration, and that individual is defined as the natural citizen. The natural citizen has a voice, the corporate citizen does not. In very real terms, the natural citizen can shout down the efforts of the corporate citizen. Yet to this day within our democratic environment we choose to preserve and protect the corporate citizen at the expense of the natural citizen.

Very true. Tell you what, form a native self government and disperse all funds according to your own desires. I suggest that the federal government have been foolish not to come to this conclusion. The First Nations peoples have for some time sought self government and that is what many believe to be the best solution. So be it, take the total funding currently devoted to payments to all bands and lump sum it into a financial institution. Disbursement from there the responsibility of some form of native government established by an Assembly of First Nations. In this manner the Government of Canada can avoid any accusation of corruption regarding First Nations from this day forward.

Perhaps a good start, given that the right to own property was removed from our constitution. In truth, there would need to be many steps taken over the course of time to achieve these things. On the other hand, considering recent political and economic events, the entire monetary system could well provide a focus point from which public sentiment may be leveraged into political action. Change could well come sooner than later.

That would put a different light on things...............

Human evolution and the evolution of human society are two different things. Whether or not we lose our wisdom teeth or small toes will not impact our politics in any functional way ! Now having said that, I must agree that our politics will in fact evolve. As will our society. Time teaches us that invention follows necessity. If it is needed, someone finds a way to get it done. We adapt, we overcome, that is our nature and the reason for our rise as the dominant life form on the planet. In today's terms, in our little corner of the world, there is no cause for change. At least that is true with all those who choose to participate in the debate. Yet also true is that there is a low rate of participation, so the models used in judgment develop an inaccurate statistical conclusion. The simple truth is that public participation in the political process allows for the top five percent of the population to actually dominate the lower ninety five percent. The system as designed perpetuates this position. It is the result of the development of the representative system of democracy, a system not designed to empower the individual, but instead to empower a much large group of individuals. Should citizens truly desire to improve the human condition through the application of politics then we would seek to empower the individual and restrict the power and authority of government.

I must once again agree with you JBG. Luckily for Alberta, we have NO DEBT, and pretty damned fine neighbors. We can pay our own way and fend for ourselves. I think it rather likely that Alberta would attempt to take the other western and possibly the northern folks with them to form a Northwest Canada. If we had our heads on straight we would likely seek some alliance with Alaska with hopes of perhaps a merger with the rest of America. Perhaps Northwest America would be more accurate. Something needs to be done, that is for sure. What? is the ten million dollar question. Perhaps fortress North America is the best option for us????

Not........! hahahaha

Well then, according to you nobody in Alberta ever whined then. So why not just stop saying we did when according to your own definition we never did. We never complained about money, we got off our butts and went to work and earned it. By the way, just in case you forgot we (Alberta) have our own bank. Trust me it isn't always about the money.

We never were, are not and never will be superior to anyone. I never have, do or will suggest anything of the kind. Albertans are just regular folks, no better or worse than the rest of the citizens of Canada. Let me be very clear to all on this forum. The province of Alberta is not and does not whine. There are many of us that have, we simply must support out fellow citizens even if our politicians don/t. We will stand up and bark from time to time, as we please as our right to do so allows us. I ask one thing from folks. Research the NEP. Find out what it did, how it was done and what happened in terms of social fallout from that political policy coined at the hands of the feds. If that doe not convince you we were abused by federal hands, check out how the Liberal government of the day dealt with our Premier of the day Bible Bill Aberhart. The province really hasn't had a fair shake if the truth was widely known. So it boils down to trust, not something the average Albertan has for the average politician of whatever stripe. I am pro democracy. I favour direct democracy. I am against anything that I believe screws me over.

No.

Hey fella if you cannot understand the basis for the argument you are simply beyond anybody's help. You can deny anything you want, I am just trying to tell you why we feel the way we do. You can eat your shorts for all I care! I need neither your blessing or your pity. In fact I don't even need, want or desire your help, or the help of the federal government. Alberta IS doing better than most. Get over it. In fact we are going to do much better. There will 3 million bpd production within the next five years, just out of the oil sands. Our entire provincial budget will be covered with royalty income from our resource development. This province is far from needing the nation to do anything for us, we can and shall do it for ourselves. That is why we seek the reforms and changes that we do, because we actually want to look after ourselves instead of having a nanny state do it for us. Here is a prediction for you anti-Alberta folks. Gives us ten years, and we will do away with provincial income taxes at both the personal and business ends of the scale. Just because we can, the province will undertake a sales tax, bringing in more revenue. The sales tax will fund healthcare and education. The province will opt out of, EI, CPP, and everything else under federal fiscal computations. At that point we won't even need to separate, we will have done it all without the help of anyone else.

So do I, 34 more months to retirement! Yeah they have a economic advantage for sure. Yet the Royal family eats all the money over there, not sure whether it filters down properly or not, none of my business really. Their money and they can do what they want with it. I think not! Alberta has good working relations with the USA. We owe them that at least. In order to keep that relationship solid, we need to talk! We can benefit greatly from each other, already have, are continuing to do so, and shall do so in the future. We are actually very alike, because we both want to just get it done, whatever it is.

Alberta is the seat of government.....really? Victim complex? Really? I wonder if you even know anybody from Alberta! We are not victims, never have been. Did the NEP screw us silly, sure it did. That is why Alberta is not Liberal friendly turf. Perhaps you do not understand that, perhaps you were not here. I was here and I understand what happened. The province and its people were screwed over by the feds. Billions of lost dollars, and who came to our help, nobody. Our entire economy depended on resource revenue, and everyone knew it. Sorry about that but it is in the national interest. Thank you very much. Now when the auto sector was threatened, did you watch the country stand on its head and start spitting nickels? I did. Made me think about what happened after '29. The feds covered all the provinces debt except for Alberta's. Yeah they actually let us in essence go belly up, all the banks pulled out with one staying open in Calgary and the other in Edmonton, the rest ran off to Bay Street. So we are used to the special treatment. That is how we got to where we are, those are just the realities we experienced, and TRUST me, we don't feel like victims. We just don't like getting screwed, and we are not afraid to say so buddy. Altering the Senate would make me happy, me and a lot of my fellow citizens. But you go right ahead and believe what you want. I am a big fan of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom period.

Hunter almost killed the IC, but it is in better shape now. CN has great position in railroad terms. I think they may have fared better than we! Yes American capital was of great help. Thank you very much.

For my two cents, I am in favour of "the right to choose" ! If that is what folks want, to separate, then that is what they want. I am in favour of Alberta separating so it would be a stretch for me to disagree with anyone else wanting to do the same. My reasons are simple, I don't like the political system as it stands. I would prefer to be part of Canada, but the nation does not want to treat my province in a manner that is acceptable to me. I guess its just me, but I believe that being an equal partner in Confederation means that we would have an equal say. Since we do not have an equal say, then I say we are not equal partners within Confederation. All that is needed to change my mind is for Canada to make the Senate a place of equal representation, where all provinces are represented in like numbers......equal. This one little thing would bring at least a point of focus for striking some sort of balance in a modernized confederation. The nation has yet to come to terms with either the First Nations or Quebec in more than a century, so hoping for some sort of miracle or magic wand is not a really great place to making plans for Senate reform. Until this nation, by which I do mean its citizens, wakes up and starts to address the reality of politics in Canada, then we are doomed to wander aimlessly in the dark. We would need to at least seek an enlightened society, we would need to pursue those things which bring us together. In other words, the things that most citizens agree on should become the focus of effort, an environment where things can actually get done. Instead of creating division based on partisan ideology where nothing gets done and society does not really benefit from political effort. In truth, this nation needs both a leader and functional vision. So I will place the seed in the minds of folks on this forum and suggest that we need a national dream of some sort. When this nation has such an animal it has done well for a generation at a time. Is political reforms what constitutes our national dream?

That model...the "equal" one is at least easier to sell to the public at large. The problem with that is that the provinces are the ones to do all the ratifications, not the people. Look folks in order to open the can of worms you need to have a plan. In order to have a plan to deal with the issues you need the agreement of the provinces. In order to have the agreement of the provinces you will need the support of the Premiers of each province. In order to gain the support of the Premiers, each and everyone must be able to say to their provincial citizens that they will benefit. In order to benefit the citizens must be convinced that the rewards will be worth their efforts. To draw this to close the question that I believe needs to be answered is; of what net benefit to the citizen is Senate Reform? Can any benefit be realized through constitutional reforms relevant to the individual citizen?

The problem in Canada is that we are not looking at making everyone equal, the spin doctors say we already are, its about taking power AWAY from Quebec and Ontario. You would think that we had at least a few politicians capable of suggesting to the public that in the best interest of all citizens we need to do this, unfortunately not.

Look folks, its all smoke and mirrors. The government really doesn't want Senate Reforms when they control both the upper and lower houses. The don't need it and certainly don't want their powers curtailed, which would be a net result of opening up the constitution. Its just political play, a distraction from current events and issues that is relevant to the government nothing more. So much the sadder for Canadians, yet it is true. The federal government has no limits to their powers and authorities not already defined within the constitution, and folks don't see anything wrong with this. It scares the hell out of me because of the governments near limitless power. For the sake of all citizens I hope we soon wake up and realize just exactly where we are going.

That is the whole point is it not? Neither of those two provinces will side with changes that they believe will detract from their influence within the current system. In short they will not settle for less, only more. So they need to get more, its simple, it just needs to be negotiated. You realize of course as equal partners within confederation that the federal government is actually accountable to the provinces in a weird and sorta wonderful way. The First Ministers conferences have the ability to force an agenda upon the federal government. The rub is of course the feds need only minimal support to carry the day in terms of voting demographics at such a conference. Canadians need only work together, the government can be held to account.

You suggest that the third largest manufacturer of aircraft in the world could not build a fifth generation fighter "on license" ?? Because that would be a level comparison of Canada building a foreign ship builders design under license would it not?