mikedavid00

THANK YOU! It's so refreshing to see someone who enderstands basic concepts of gov't services. What we are doing is simply unsustainable over the long term and it's beginning to reach it's head.

We accept about 240,000 immigrants annually of which about 40,000 are accepted on refugee grounds. (I may be wrong on exact numbers.) Ouch.....Sorry about that. I went back and looked and dang, I should read better. Lo and behold you posted "refugees" My mistake. Immigration and Refugee numbers are two different statistics. Combine the two for total amounts of forgeign nationals that are here each year. Estimate another 20,000 for illegals.

Well there's what you think and the factual numbers. Keep believing the 'my vision of Canada' nonsense from the Libearl leaders of Canada. Our services will continue to crumble Then there was Volpe before the last election trying to grasp for votes "We need to increase immigration by 500,000 people a year". Good one Volpe.. good one.

Ahhhh.. ok that's all i needed to know.

Well regardless, people are going to use the system that haven't paid into it and that's why over the years it's become unsistainable. When you come into Canada, part of your settling involves seing a doctor and having Canadian born children. When you come later in life (as many i personally know), then you just haven't paid into the system long enough to cover the costs of healthcare. It's not that they are eating the system dry over night, it's over a long time that it will catch up to us and it's probably the root of the problem. Canadians can't be taxed anymore, so somethings going to have to give. (took 30 min to dig very deep because atleast you appreciate it... here's what I found) "Federal and provincial government social programs can experience greater expense without corresponding tax revenue due to the low employment rate of immigrants (see employment statistics below)." In 2001, the overall unemployment rate of immigrants was 37%. Combined with the overall participation rate of 70%, this means that only 44% of all working-age immigrants were working in 2001. This is significantly lower than the average employment rate in Canada of 72%. The net result is that the majority of landed immigrants are not working: 56% of working-age immigrants, plus children and retiree immigrants (who, while not expected to work, do consume welfare, medicare and public education resources)."

Well we have to allow refugees from some UN accord we are part of as long as most of the first world. However, we let in the second most per capita in the world. Most of the claims are bogus and coached via an immigration consultant. The last true refugee's should have been during the Ugaslavia crisis. Under our rules, you can claim refugee status if you are fat or your husband beats you. Also if you are gay. These are not refugees. I tell my immigrant friends who's family members were not allowed into the country to just claim refugee status. Refugee is the easiest, fastest, best way into Canada. To be honest, I wouldn't even bother with sponsorship or the point system. You just need coaching on how to answer the questions and you should have new babies here in Canada in order to stay and help your case. It's an easy, easy way in. There are no refugees in this world. We all know it. Ugislavia was the last crisis and everyone else is lying.

Le SoleilSomebody better put a muzzle on this lady fast. I have the impression we might have ourselves another Martha Mitchell. Did Belinda Stronach have negative things to say about his citizenship? I heard she did..

I heard about this today also. As I said before, there was much more at play when 6 of 8 runners are backing Rae and the fourth placing runner ends up winning. Then need to stop their inside chrony-ism.

So let me get this straight. Our publically funded broadcaster has a campaign style 'what would you do if' when it's not a campaign, and further more, they show the 'Liberal' logo on the screen while people are asking questions. I feel that was campaigning and this should be called out by the CPC because I believe it's technically breaking rules to use public dollars in order to campaign. I don't even think you are allowed to run campaign ads when there isn't a campaign. I don't know the specifics on that? Anyone?

Nobody knows what is wrong with our system and that's why we all can't agree on anything. What we can do is make a logical assumptions based on the current sitution. If there is a waiting list, there are obvsiouly too many people using the system that was once working. When we are at our limit where we can not be taxed further and are out of money to fund the system, then there are more people using it than have paid into it. What we do know, is that we let more people into our country each year than anywhere else in the world per capita. We hand poeple a very, very expensive free service as soon as they get here when they haven't paid into it. If they gov't knows, they aren't going to tell us. Supposedly they hid from us the real number of Canadians living abroad because it was rumored to be over a million. Anyow back to your origional question this is the best that we may be able to do: "Dillmann et al. (1993) examined the health status of 1,104 refugees who arrived in Calgary between January 1989 and October 1990. This group included refugees from Central America (30%), Southeast Asia (25%), Middle East (25%), Africa (10%) and Eastern Europe (10%). Overall, 34% of the refugees required a referral to a health practitioner. Common health problems included respiratory infections, impaired visual capacity, dental problems (extremely common among children), ear infections, hearing problems, gynecological problems and emergency hospitalizations. Dillmann et al. (1993) concluded that refugees need special care and protection in a new country, particularly in their early stages of resettlement." Other interesting note: "A five-year Alberta study that included 351 cases of TB diagnosed in southern Alberta between 1990 and 1994 indicated that immigrants accounted for 70.6% of these cases. The majority of these immigrants (73.4%) were from Asian countries (e.g. China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Philippines and Indian sub-continent) (Cowie & Sharpe, 1998). In Toronto, public health data indicate that immigrants account for 92% of TB cases (Gardam, pers. comm). The five-year Alberta study reported that the mean latency period between immigration and diagnosis was 11.2 years (standard deviation [sD] 13.9 years) and 50% of immigrants presented within 7 years of arrival. The latency period varied according to the disease type: patients with superficial lymph node disease presented after 7.6 years [sD 6.9] of arrival, those with extra-pulmonary disease after 10.1 years. Immigrants from the Philippines, Hong Kong and South Asia had latency periods of seven, seven and eight years, respectively, compared to refugees from Somalia, Ethiopia, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan who had latency periods of two, three, four and four years, respectively. An analysis of TB data from Toronto revealed that the highest rates of TB occurred among immigrants within five years of arrival in Canada (PHRED, 2000). Canadian estimates have been based largely on computer-modelling programs such as the one developed by Health Canada to assess the public health risks for 47 communicable diseases. Using this program, it was estimated that one in 1,000 immigrants (0.1%) arrive annually with HIV, accounting for 37 transmissions each year (Hurst, Dec. 2000; St. John, pers. comm., 2000). There was some evidence that HIV/AIDS is increasing among immigrants to Ontario who were born in HIV-endemic countries. In 1997 and 1998, 14% of cases in the provincial surveillance system were attributed to immigrants from HIV-endemic countries, compared to 2.9% of cases from 1981 to 1995. At the same time, the proportion of AIDS cases attributed to MSM declined from 86% in 1985 to 50% in 1998 (Remis & Whittingham, 1999). It was also estimated that 46% of HIV infections among immigrants from the Caribbean and 30% of infections among immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa were acquired in Canada. This has important implications since policies and programs now in place in Canada could potentially prevent these infections. Of the 281 HIV-infected mothers reported to the Ontario HIV Paediatric Network, 41% were born to immigrant women from HIV-endemic countries (Remis & Whittingham, 1999). Another study reported that 70% of the motherinfant HIV transmissions in recent years were among immigrant women from sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean (Remis et al., 1998). Much attention has focused on the burden placed on health services attributed to immigrants with HIV/AIDS. Although there was little evidence, the United States has maintained and enforced an HIV-testing policy which excludes HIV-positive immigrants or immigrants with AIDS. Furthermore, no research has examined whether the prevalence of AIDS in immigrant populations increases or decreases in prevalence with duration of stay. It has been suggested that certain sub-groups of immigrants (e.g. refugees, seasonal migrant workers and travellers who seek sexual experimentation) are at higher risk for HIV. Canada is presently introducing legislation for mandatory screening and exclusion of immigrants (except family class immigrants) who test positive for HIV. (WHAT?????) BINGO - FINALLY FOUND IT AFTER ALL THESE YEARS. HERE'S WHAT I'VE JUST SPENT THE LAST 1.5 HOURS LOOKING FOR: For example, male immigrants in Manitoba had substantially higher rates of physician contact for infectious and parasitic diseases, and female immigrants had higher rates for pregnancy-related conditions. Immigrants also had higher rates of hospitalization for eye surgery. The Kliewer and Kazanjian (2000) study was also unique in that it was able to examine HSU among immigrant sub-groups (e.g. country of origin and refugee status). For example, in the first year of landing, males born in the Middle East had higher hospitalization rates than the general Manitoba male population, while those born in North Africa and South Asia had higher rates between 7 and 12 months of landing. Immigrants with Refugee or Family visas had the highest HSU rates while those with Economic-Business visas had the lowest rates. **'HSU' means utilization of our medical system.

Well I have a major issue with same sex marriage. And it's an obvoius reason that no one has every brought up. "Interim Policy on Civil Marriages between Same-Sex Persons Same-sex couples’ access to civil marriage was extended throughout Canada on July 20, 2005, under the Civil Marriage Act. While CIC examines the impact of the Act on its immigration programs, its interim policy, which recognizes the validity of civil marriages between a foreign national and his or her Canadian citizen or permanent resident same-sex partner, will continue. At this time, the policy applies only to the family class (which includes the spouse or common-law partner in-Canada class)." Basically, it's an immigration loop hole that will allow anybody to get into the country unscreened.

Which facts would you like? These ones? http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf (page 26) These ones? "In Canada, every citizen has coverage, but access can still be a problem. Reports show that millions of Canadians do not have, or have trouble finding a doctor, and have to rely on emergency room treatments. [1] Complaints of long waiting lists for some services are also common. For example, in a survey of hospital administrators conducted in Canada, the United States, and three other countries, 21 percent of Canadian hospital administrators admitted that it would take over three weeks to do a biopsy for possible breast cancer on a 50 year old woman. Less than one percent of American administrators made this claim. according to the same survey, fifty percent of Canadian administrators versus none of their American counterparts stated that it would take over six months for a sixty-five year old to undergo a routine hip replacement surgery"

Thank you. It's so refreshing to finally see some real world solutions. Taxing Canadians more is just not a solution because we're already at our limit. We need to move to a plan B. People need to understand that people are coming here on a mass scale - more per capita than anywhere else in the world. In the US you come via a workers permit and there is no chance in hell you are getting HMO healthcare. You must take out your own private insurance that your company will most likely supply for your family. This is why the HMO and private insurance both do not have waiting times. Only the poor in the US has an HMO plan. Private medical coverage covers 69% of all Americans. Employers supply 60% of all health care in the US. There is NOT waiting times for procedures. Their system only works because people who are using it are paying into it. Immigration is here only because the Liberal Party of Canada found a solid voter base to keep them in power. They know this. Canada does not have this booming high life with jobs everywhere and palaces for homes. This is actually a poverty stricken country with non functioning healthcare. We just have to deal with the fact that we can't afford more healthcare. We have to deal with the fact that immigration system wont be reformed. We need solutions to solve our crisis and you are the only one that gave a good first step. Remeber, 50,000 residing in Lebanon, not or never paying taxes here in Canada and are able to fly over for a triple bypass and clog our system. Multiply this over 20 years and eventually the system will crumble. That's all that's happening now. Same with organ donations.

Actually I believe that natives are entitles to a special native welfare where they get like $900 a month and don't have to look for work. They just get the money. They also dont pay sales tax and get free university/college tuitions. THey aslo get first preference for gov't jobs. I wonder if this is the case in the US.. after all, there are millions of natives in the US and Mexico.

Finally someone with basic, basic, logic and intelligence.

FWIW, I little while ago I went on Workoplis and looked at jobs in Alberta. I dind't find that manh listings as compared to Ottawa and the jobs seemed to have impossibly high credentials for simple work with fairly low pay. Back during the tech bubble, everyone though that Ottawa was some silicon valley. I guess that's why we were all sitting in Ottawa unemployed wondering where this magical silicon valley was.

You are getting into conspirasy theories now. The mark of a true left winger. You are dreamy, wishing, and out of touch with reality. Listen. I'm the only one here bringing reality into this. Healthcare is like insurance, if people are using the services that they don't pay into, then the service DOESN'T WORK. Over the years, the system has slowly crumbled because there are MORE PEOPLE USING IT THAN WE HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO SUPPLY CARE. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. STOP OVER COMPLICATING IT. We don't have enough resources because we don't have the money to expand the system. Why? Because people that are using it that HAVE NOT PAID INTO IT. Healthcare insurance is made to be paid into your whole life, NOT 10 years, NOT 15 years, NOT from 35 years old with jobs here and there until they get old age welfare. It's meant to be paid into your whole life of paying taxes. The same is for the US. When you sponsor in family members from other countries who have not paid into the system, then eventually over time you end up with waiting lists and insuficient care. I agree that there are other problems, but it's not the MAIN problem that is causing our problems. When's the last time you've seen a hospital get built? They don't get built because we can't afford it.

Well 52% of immigrants who arrive in Canada are living in poverty 5 years after they have arrived here. I was at a baby shower with mostly immigrants last month. There was a guy there who moved to Canada 3 years ago with his wife and now has 2 kids. He was clearly in has late 40's early 50's. Do you feel that he is going to fully pay into our healthcare system to cover all his current and future medical expenses? I was born here and have paid about $80,000 into the system so far. I estimate over $250,000 by the time I am retired. Almost a million people enter Canada every three years by ordering a kit off the internet and filling out an application. They come here at any age, with no job prospects and entering the workforce late. Eventually this WILL effect our healthcare system. Why can't you grasp the fact that our system is degrading becaue we are servicing people who have not paid into it? What is so hard about that law of economics?

Children don't pay into the system either. Are they banned from healthcare? And healthcare is a pay as you go system. It means that taxes pay for healthcare. The majority of immigrants come to Canada and work and pay taxes. Do you have evidence that all 200,000 newcomers each years come to Canada and don't get jobs and pay taxes? Well I'm done with this. You're not doing your research. You haven't reasearched how many immigrants/refugees join our workforce. Only 2/3rds of Canadians pay income tax at all. Do your research, spend some time looking through stats and learning about our country and then come back and say that immigrant families work and spend into the system enough to cover their costs in services. You want to make up facts in your mind, but not research real numbers.

It's obvious you don't understand our immigration system and enternace requirements. You basically claim you are in good health and 'swear' you are telling the truth. You also need a letter from a doctor saying that you don't suffer from any health concerns. These letters are VERY common in these countries with some doctors doing nohting but these letters. You have not researched this issues well enough so it's not worth debating. You are letting your emotions overtake logic and research. You're hearing what you only want to beleive, not the truth.

For my sake then, where are those numbers? Lol.. are you denying the fact that we have emergency wiat room times and a waiting list and are in a crisis situation? Are you denying that we have a shortage of organs? Are you denying that a man's wife died from waiting 3 years on a liver transplant list. And her waiting got pushed back and back. The person before her on the list was waiting for only 3 months while the lady who was waiting for 3 years ended up dying. Are you denying all this?

I think that it doesn't bother poeple because people don't see him becoming Priminster. Keep telling yourself that. Actually I cringe to think of him in the debates... I also cringed when I saw him speak in the house.. i mean there's bad English, and then there's REALLY, REALLY, BAD ENGLISH. WTF kind of topic is this? You're taking an exchange from another topic and making a new topic out of it. I'm not a huge stickler for rules, but that has shades of cross-posting. In any event, isn't it just a little pointless? Your supposed to do this if one thread goes too much off topic. We are talking about polls and no one has forcasted that the debates can sometiems make or break descisions and effect polls. Thus, I found it a good idea to discuss the national debates with dion vs. harper.

I didn't say they used it more, I said that they have used it when they have not paid into it their whole lives like we have. This is the sole reason why we have a deteriorating healthcare system in crisis. CBS NEWS RECOGNIZES THESE FACTS, WHY DON"T YOU??? A MUST READ: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/...html?cmp=EM8705 "In 1984 Parliament passed the Canada Health Act, which affirmed the federal government's commitment to provide mostly free health care to all, including the 200,000 immigrants arriving each year".

Citation? Years back I went into a very deep thread on this issue and it was extrememly time consuming digging up reasearch. The result was most Canadians learning alot about the US 2 tier system and agreed it was the best in the world. Most all companies except McDonalds and other minimum wage jobs offer healthcare plans. Even Wal-Mart offers a plan for $25 a month. Rememer, I'm paying about $334 a month out of my pocket vs. $25 for a Wal-Mart employee. Walmart is picking up the tab for their own employees benefit as to where I have to pay out of my pocket to sponsor surgeries for foreign nationals that do not reside in this country: If you don't beleive me, take a look: http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/24/news/fortu...hcare/index.htm "Monthly premiums will be, on average, less than $25 for an individual, $37 for a single parent and $65 for a family. The $11 premium, for individuals, will be available in a handful of areas, Fogleman told the Times. "

They save my household about $40 a month. Another percent would be $80 a month. It's still a step in the right direction even if it is flawed. It's holding people accountable which we should all welcome! They have already spent that much this year. It's tough but has to be done. Who else has one that? Well I could sure use that $100. Every bit counts. So with the $100 when I have kids and the 2% GST cut I'll have $180 more to spend into our economy to help employment. I can almost lease a new car with that money. Hezbollah. Pro-Isreal etc.