mikedavid00

I've taken stats courses too. So what. I'm sure Strategic Council has people twice as smart at it than you and me put together. I've pointed out your errors once and don't wish to argue the poll with you any longer. Well not really.. the poll isn't flawed. They did show the huge margin of error and extremely small sample size. CTV just gave it a wild spin which they shouldn't be doing if they want to be respected. The poll said that 27% of poeple never heard or dion or knew this was going on. I would put that number much, much higher from people I know and what i've seen last night at the christmas party. The common joe is going to see another french politician who can't speak english and is obsessed with the environment which is far, far away from the average Canadians problems.

Not so fast. Canada is proven to have non reliable 'overnight' polling due to the makeup of our country: -The poll sampled 1,000 Canadians on Dec. 3, 2006. The results are based on tracking among a proportionate national sample of Canadians aged 18 or older. -The margin of error for the national poll was plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. -The margin of error for the Quebec subset, which had a sample size of 247, was plus or minus 6.3 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. -The margin of error for the Ontario subset, which had a sample size of 379, was plus or minus 5.0 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Exactly. It's corrupt and is made so elites determine who gets in power. Ignatieff had public support on multiple polls. End of story. He gave the best speach you could say. He just had it in the bag. Elites and corruption and back room deals saw to it that Dion/Kennedy got in. Belinda tried to change the charter to the Liberal party by campaigning for a 1 member, 1 vote structure, but she lost the motion. You should ahve seen the look on her face last Wed. when she lost the motion. It was real close though. SHe's like 'how is 93% of our party not being here and not voting democratic?'. SHe even had several other MP's backing her at the podium to pass the motion. Belinda was trying to stop the internal corruption that was played out on Saturday... But the elites already at the concention just couldn't let go of their eliteness so voted it down. They didn't have the parties interest at heart: only their elbow rubbing. Sorry Belinda, I'm sure your cooking somethign else up as we speak.

The electorage college system is brilliant and an answer to most of our electoral problems.

Dion will be a very weak, unliked leader and may actually prove ot be incompetant. I wish you could have seen him at his press confrence today. He said something against his own caulkus members like 'I don't want them to waste my time asking me about things that don't matter.' or something along those lines. Maybe someone has a video clip? He avoids questions in the typical liberal fashion (unlike Rae). The pundits common consensus is that the next election will be before next fall leaves show. But timing means a lot. We could have a terrist attack etc. etc. I think that people are giving Dion too much credit. Rae is an extrememly well connected, seasoned politician. Dion is lackluster in so many ways. ie: not being able to handle a basic situation when the music is being turned on at the end of his speech. He should have the common intillect and people skills to be able to deal with that situation like other's were able to. But not Dion. Nope. He had to stare and look and stop and look again.. it was just really really akward. Look.. tommorow we'll all find out from the real insiders what really happened and what the common consensus is behind the scenes on Dion. I just don't think it will be good vibes. The party cou'ing against him might be in the works right now for all we know. Let's put it this way, we're all speculating and so is the anti-establishment wing of the Liberal party. Don't think that people won't try to take Dions job if he's not well liked or not well respected from his caulkus, or, if people feel he was not rightfully intended to be there. We should all be able to agree that he won't win the election.

IMO, the liberal party is only around because of the immigrant vote (factual). But how long do they wait for the Liberals get back in power until we see the blue turbans on? Immigrants will only support a losing party for so long. Here in the big cities, it's getting to the point where all the liberal candidate positions have been snatched up and there are even immigrants getting involved into the green party in order to get themselves in some sort of politics. Immigrant enrolement into the CPC is going to undoubtedly rise. I've been to several family functions these past few months, Immigrants seem to be happy with Harper due mostly to the GST and child payments. Of course, sponsorship of relatives into Canada is of #1 concern of immigrants in Canada (factual). Harper can't ever threaten this. I do not beleive the CPC can get a majority gov't unless it gets the immigrant vote. I think that after Dion loses the next election, I think that the immigrants will move towards the CPC party if Harper doesn't touch immigration and our destructive family sponsorship prgram. When the in-fighting starts behind the scenes, I think it will be a call to immigrants to take sides and protect their interest. Understand, Canadians vote against parties, not for them. When Canadians are complacent, they will continue to vote with the wave of complacancy. Dion will never, ever win any kind of election against harper by promosing to tax Canadians so we can have lower green house emissions. He litteraly wasted 4 billion of OUR dollars into 'thin air'. pun intended. DID YOU KNOW: The liberals left the CPC with 800,000 people waiting to get into our country? +90% with no job prospects, no employability, and the majority of these people will be living below the poverty line even 5 years after they landed here in Canada. 70% of these people are family sponsored which comprise of the sick and elderly. Meanwhile last week Ontario has another net loss of full time jobs and a higher unemployment rate of 6.3. Way to go Liberals. Way to go.

lol... that's what they want you to believe. The involved knew the fix was in. You really need to get a grasp further into Canadian politics to know what really happened. 1. Dion came in at 3rd/4th place entering this (depending on the poll you listened to) and was never expected to win. 2. Dion made previous agreements with Kennedy that they would back each other. 3. 6 of 8 candidates backed Rae - NOT Dion (because they knew #2). 4. Chretien/young Trudeau backed Dion/Kennedy 5. Only 4,600 people voted. 6. Rae spent over 2 million dollars on his campaign, Dion less than 'six figures' (or 'seven'.. can't remember.. wasn't paying attention during that moment.. someone clarify). 7. People on this very forum and everywhere you went were backing Iggy. You'll see that the cards were never supporting Dion or Kennedy. It was a 'pro-establishment' vs. 'anti-establishment' and the establishment won.. of course. Ignatieff loves the texbooks and schools. Maybe some of his followers can study the below definition to see what is going to happen to the Liberal Party next: Coup d'état The sudden overthrow of a government through unconstitutional means by a part of the state establishment — mostly replacing just the high-level figures. It is also an example of political engineering. It may or may not be violent in nature.

By that standard, you must also believe that Canada is not a democracy because we allow elected officials to represent us in the House of Commons. Delegates at the convention are representative of a number of people in their ridings. That's not the same thing. Other parties have taken a 1 member, 1 vote stance and it works. And no I do not beleive that Canada is a democracy unless it has a 100% voter turn out and includes permenant residents and non citizens living here. Australia is a democracy more than we are.

Dion was elected because he is less hated than the other candidates. It was the "anybody but iggy" combined with the "anybody but rae" movement. I disagree. He was elected because Kennedy backed him and thus 40% of the vote. That is the only provable thing. The other provable thing was that he was the first choice of perhaps 20% of Liberals. What makes you think the rest of us will be any more enthusiastic about him? Actually 17%. Rae had 20% support. Backroom deals were done and Dion/Kennedy's future was secured. That is just the way Liberal's do things. Rae really was the safest bet of all. But I predicted Dion would get it. I'm actually very proud of myself

I just have to disagree with that. Dion and Kenneday (part of the loyalist team) made a pre-aranged deal with each other that they would support one another to secure their votes. Insiders were the only ones allowed to vote, not 300,000 party members which would have changed the outcome. When 6 of 8 contenders are going to Rae for support, that should sent everyone a message of what was going on. Dion won due to typicall, Liberal inside deals and corruption. It could have been Kennedy just the same. (lets not forget how several months back Dion and Kennedy were spotted in a Toronto resturaunt having dinner together). In typical Liberal style, a minorty spoke for a majority and special interest got it's way. That's fine for now, but not when there is a cou within the Liberal party possibly led by Stronach. Mark my words. Last night proved that nothing has changed within the Liberal party.

I disagree. Look at the way the Liberal election was done. You'll see it goes a bit deeper than that. He wasn't democratically elected in. He was elected due to inside deals and chronie-ism. Everyone involved knows this and they will be taking action against Dion maybe sooner than we think. I garuntee Dion will not last 5 years as leader.

Dion was elected because he is less hated than the other candidates. It was the "anybody but iggy" combined with the "anybody but rae" movement. I disagree. He was elected because Kennedy backed him and thus 40% of the vote. That is the only provable thing. Also, the people who backed Kennedy and Dion were the Chretien loyalists. Young trudeau's endoresment is all that neeeds to be said in this. He won over the floor. Keep in mind that 6 of 8 contenders backed Rae. Those were the 'anti-establishment' wing of the party. Nobody liked Iggy I guess because he was simply too much of an outsider. Pun intended. However, I do think if all 300,000 card carying members were ALLOWED TO VOTE, they would have voted him or Rae in power. Dion is not well liked by his collegues and I can assure everyone that the anti-establishment wing of the party will work on over-throwing him after the next election which is rumored to be sooner than later due to suspect polling showing a neck and neck tie between Lib vs Con. I do feel that he will indeed pick up seets in Quebec. I also predict that he will not make the Environment is top priority once he gets back down to earth and speaks to his campaign strategists. Regardless he's not going to win. (Also there are hints that they are going to drop the GST another percent before the election gets called which is good for my household because I'll save another $20 a month for a total of $40 which totals 480 a year in our households pocket that I can re-invest into our economy to stimulate job growth and.... wait.. that's a bit too advanced of a thought for the socially engineered Liberal supporters).

The Conservatives still have Mulroney as his cohorts working in the background. That is change? Not the same. Below is proof that this election was fixed: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/02/dion-kennedy.html Facts are, he's wasted 4 billion of our dollars to increase green house emitions. He was there through thte whole scandal. He wants to tax alberta oil companies becuase of their emissions. He's not likeable by his own party. He wont win an election, and I predect there's going to be a cou and he'll be kicked out of the party.

The Libearl party will form a cou and kick out Dion after he loses the next election. He was elected in due to classic Liberal voting shcemes which keep the old timers in. IF there was a 1 member, 1 vote system, Ignatieff or especially Rae could have got it.

I have to question the journalism here "Just seconds after Rae was knocked out, a prominent Tory MP wandering the convention floor pulled out a handful of buttons mocking Rae and winked mischievously." If they can't even give a name of the person handing out buttons then this can't be taken as serious journalism. And isn't this a private event? How did he get in? Rae lost because the votes on teh floor weren't there due to the corrupt LIberal electoral system plain and simple.

I think so too. They thought they had Iggy in the bag We all thought Iggy (or Rae) was in the bag. This Dion thing was just Liberal insider polticis as ususal. Canadians are happy with Harpers gov't and won't vote in a Quebecer who's main issue is climate change when we have our own citizens dying on waiting lists. It's a no brainer. And the current party knows this. Look for a lot of entertaining things to happen within that party in the next few years.

I agree. But it won't be that many. Let's not make this complicated. We have a Quebecer with the old party backing him and who's going to make his campaign out of climate change which is proven not to win elections. There will be a faction of his own party that will want to take over his job when he loses. He's not going to win in an election next time around. Rae was someone that could have taken votes away from non city centers. How does 6 out of 8 runners back one person and that person comes in third? Dion won't be priminister or wont win an election. Termoil in the lib party is abound in the next few years. Hopefully Harper can win a majority this time around due to Dion's lackluster campaign ideas.

Well it suprised all of us. Anyone who said it didn't is lying. No one expected Kennedy to move to Dion's side. It could have easily been vice versa with just a couple of percentage points in the second ballat adn Kennedy would be leader right now. However, I have to say that I am proud of myself for being the 'most right'. I said over and over that Dion should be the true winner becuase he has the old Liberal establishment behind him. His a typical Liberal leader: A Quebecer and an MP with experience. I didn't expect things would turn out like this though. I actually thought Ignatieff was going to get it because of Harper declaring Quebec as a nation. But the establishment was too far against Ignatieff. Why? Beucase he has no experiece, and simply hasn't been in the country. You know, I was at a Christmas party tonightn and no one knew or care that there was a convention. I was at Sears ealier today and it was packed with people shopping passing by the TV section with the convention on the plasma screen. Only myself and two other south asian immigrants were interested. the screen read 'Awaiting third ballat results'. No one cared. The average Canadian was not about to elect anyone into power that hasn't been in the country for the last 20 years. Harper knows this and wanted Ignatieff to win. That's what I think this nation thing was really about. Amazingly, despite 6 of 8 runners backing Rae, the old establishment was too strong and here we have the same run of the mill, quebec, liberal old timer that represents the old party - not new. But that's NOT good news for Harper. Harper will never get the cities to vote for him due to immigratoin insecuties. Dion *will* get more seats than both candidates could have becaues he will pick up more Quebec seats. He will defenitely not pick up more Canada seats that Rae may have. Also, since I have thia amazing habbit of being right most of the time or very close, I'm going to go on record saying the below: The Liberal party is currupt. Things have not changed. Before the PC/Reform/Alliance/Conservatives had to go through a LOT of changes over 10 years before they straightened themselves out and got in power. The Liberals will have to do the same. Canadians are happy with Harper at this time and are not about to vote in a quebec politician that represents the old red liberal of corruption and martin. This is why Rae and Ignatieff were invited to be leaders. But again, Liberals are still corrupt and this is why Dion is in power. If it was 1 member - 1 vote, this whole thing would have played out differently. Again - it's a non democratic corrupt party. The 1 member, 1 vote system is the truly democratic way to elect leadership in their own party. Everyone knows that. But the Liberals just can't let go of their old insider way of doing things. I hearby say the below, mark my words: Dion will not serve as priminister ever. Dion is known to not be very 'liked' by his collegues and is not open to hearing anyone elses ideas. The problem is, Dion is also known to be a 'weak' leader. He doesn't have the natural 'je cest quoa' that a leader needs to have for a party. The 'anti establishment' portion of the party (Belinda, Rae and his supporters at the convention) will... I predict.. form a cou and try to take over the party and throw out Dion after he loses the next election. You will see a transformation of Liberal party just like the old Reform became the new Conservative Party of Canada. At this point, there are more anti-estabilshment seat members of the Lib party than there are layalists. Dion as a leader doens't have what it takes to hold back party members forming a cou against him. Only after this is succesful years from now, you will see the Liberal party transformed and back in power. I have a hunch that Belinda and her people behind the scenese is going to take a major roll in this. Just a hunch. What you saw tonight was the Liberal party not changing. It's still corrupt, still insider run, and still un democratic. Someone is leading the Party that is not a true leader for the country and someone who will certainly not win an election on climate change. Everyone knows that Rae or Ignatieff would have been better in the publics eye becuase they represent something new. But when you have a convention in Montreal, with Paul Martin and Jean Cretien, we all know it's the same party. It can't continue like this. You will see a major battle within the party in the coming years mark my words.

But it's not a valid news story because of hte lack of public outrage. The CBC created this story in an attempt to MAKE a story. For instance, I was watching CPAC yesterday. The liberal party were in the house of commons singing 'Oh Canada'. Navdeep Bains was mumbling along and didn't know the words to 'Oh Canada'. Now that is a news worthy story. However, if I was an editor in chief of a news organization, I would NOT choose the run the story becuase that would be spinning and creating news. Now unless there was public outcry or several calls or letters, THEN it would be on the front page and the nation can debate how we could have an member of parliment who doesn't know the words of 'Oh Canada'.

What is your opinion of the CBC putting out a headline like they did? I didn't see this anywhere else except the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ Look at the three pictures in the middle of the page and tell me what these photos and stories have to do with Canada. Maybe the CBC should create a 'India' section on it's menu to the left. I'm sure it will. Why does my tax dollars pay for all this political spin?

Amusing: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/02/...ay-lebanon.html Is the above real journalism? Or is it just an anti Harper spin? You be the judge.

If this story is true, then I agree with your assessment. However, by your own rules you "lost" as soon as you posted this. From your own signature..... That's true. This side is the only side of the argument claiming racism. The rule can't be wrong. Maybe I have lost the argument and just don't know it yet? Maybe i've been wrong the whole time?

They also tend to be less educated, and far less knowledgeable or interested in politics. I work with a lot of women, and only 1 in 10 even reads the papers or is the slightest bit interested in politics. They're much easier for a style over substance party like the Liberals to sway than the more pragmatic men. Tell a woman (especially a young one) that you have a plan to combat greenhouse gases and she'll beam and nod her head approvingly. The man is more likely to ask how much it costs. true. most women I know don't really care about politics at all. If they do, they are liberal activist types.. ..that might even be dykes.. hehe.. Else they are just voting with what their husbands or men around them feel they should vote. When my fiance met me she had no clue what was going on. Last election she voted conservative of course becuase myself and her Dad were conservatives. I feel that if we were NDP or something she just would have voted NDP.. she really doesn't care to learn the issues of politics. You know, there WAS reasons why females were not able to vote at one time in history.

You two have a lot in common then..... Hehehe good one =)