Rue

I get you W and I am Burke conservative. No worries. Both sides of the debate were done well. I appreciate that. One thing that we Canadians on this issue clearly Wil not ever understand is the need of politicians in the US to calm things down calling for more guns. I will never understand why Americans thinking pouring gas on a fire puts it out. I mean telling houses of worship to arm themselves? Does someone need to explain to Trump that houses of worship having to be armed means there is something far more serious on need of resolving rather than arming houses of worship? How does the leader ofvthecworld's most important democracy not understand the sanctity of a church, etc. I just don't get it. On a different note. I was on the board of a synagogue and went out and gave coffee to policevparked outside your synagogue during Yom Kippur. I told the police officer the greatvthing about Canada is the police protect us they were not there to arrest us for being Jews. The officer I could see was genuinely moved. I mean it's crazy. I don't Luke organized religion. I prefer now to do it abstractly as an individual. I can walk in any place of worship and find common themes. I hate groups using religion to inflame. I see people killing people praying now what who are Christian, Muslim, Jews. The blood is The same and we need a leader who can do better than say arm yourself. Obviously for me better gun control is an issue I would like to see, I.e., banning of assault rifles i the US. However that is ultimately an American internal issue and the majority of Americans are obsessed with having the right to have weapons so they will keep killing their Bobbie Kennedies, Martin Luther King and for that matter even try kill conservatives like Ronald Reagan.

You are doing what you accuse others of. In a discussion about immigration it is unfortunate if you or anyone else can not see the middle ground on the issue, I.e., not all immigration is bad but not all of it is good. The current government is being absolutely irresponsible in assuring a legitimate immigration criteria of eligibility is allowed to be made a mockery of by cue jumpers. It has deliberately created a policy to welcome illegal entry migrants and let them access the refugee system to circumvent the legitimate process. It's done so to encourage illegals from the US to cue jump into Canada and in so doing undermines the regular immigration process and refugee process. This government is creating an unfair swamping of government facilities by illegal entry migrants meaning legitimate refugees and immigrants are the first people to suffer. That is why this black and white approach that one is either for or against immigration is b.s. and you have entered that extremist dialogue world. I call you out as having the very same bias you accuse others of having and the same reason I called out Argus when in these discussions he made references that could be inferred to lump all immigrants in one category of negative reference although he was quick to deny his words. You do the same. Can you please understand some of us want a balanced immigration policy and that does not make us anti immigrant and writing off the Fraser Institute as right wing and therefore you don't read it is ignorant to say. Using your reasoning you are a left winger and quote left wing sources so I can just write you off. No I don't. I take what you say seriously as I do Argus because both sides are required in a salient debate. I just wish you and he would spend more time enunciating what you think should be the policy instead of engaging in rhetoric only as to what is wrong. I repeat again migrants illegally entering Canada from the US should be sent back. If they claim refugee status they have a legal obligation to due so in the first designated country, i.e., the US or Mexico or other nation they first travelled to outside their country of origin if is is a UN Convention Treaty member and apply for refugee status there. This is the way to assure the legitimacy of our immigration entrant system for both refugees and immigrants. People who push in front of them both by breaking the law and entering illegally should not be rewarded for doing so. The government of the day has sent a message loud and clear that to enter Canada illegally means you can cue jump and in so doing has caused an escalation of illegal crossings as well as provides preferential treatment for these illegal entrants that hurts and negatively impacts on those who choose to obey our laws and enter legally. . To say what I did does not make me anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant or anti African as some on this forum would suggest. I argue what I do to safeguard the refugee and immigration systems which do work and are designed to try be fair and stop cue jumping. Our lawsmay not be perfect but they work. Trudeau's government has deliberately undermined them because he does not have the integrity to admit his true policy which is to welcome anyone. Trudeau thinks he will win ethnic votes by making a mocckery of our immigration laws. I argue in so doing he mocks most Canadians who other than aboriginals came here as immigrants and we were not rewarded for breaking laws when we came here. Immigrants are not asking for preferential treatment, just fair consideration. Don't claim you defend all immigrants. Many of us believe in following the laws not breaking them for personal gain. We do not need the left patronizing us as victims in need of cue jumping or as the extreme right does as criminals and parasites. We are neither.

You both are right for different reasons. He didn't go so far as you think he did. If you read his past stuff WestCan is not against free speech. He's just questioning when that line gets crossed. He's a genuine moderate middle of the roadster on this forum. Both of you have legit comments. No one wants to go too far in containing what can be said...whether it's you or CW or me. Me as a Jew yes sure I have strong feelings about certain language being used to incite hatred against Jews couched as trendy leftist ideology including politically correct coded words calling for terrorism against Jews or anyone else for that matter not just Jews. If you have to live with a target on your butt for wanting to express yourself through a collective identity you feel that way, so of course not just us Jews. Yah maybe being targeted say like Jews, gay, blacks, aboriginals, women, etc., gives us a different perspective on hateful words. Sure.. but... Look I don't need to sit around and wait to get shot. Thanks but there are limits and no I don't think calling on people to wipe out Jews is free speech. Go figure..Wes has and I appreciate he has... Would you understand me if I said goose-stepping is not an expression I take calmly? You both are equally as respected by me in this debate but just don't ask me to sit on my ass when wrds heat up anymore than telling me goose-stepping is just a style of presentation. Words like goose-steps can be weapons. They can incite and welcome violence and death. You don't need to be a Jew to know that as Wes shows. An even better analogy is say pornography. No I don't ask for it to be censored. However if it expresses non consensual violence or specialization of children you bet I think it needs to be contained. But I get you. I do.

To hate you would require caring about what you think. Don't delude yourself. People like me would feeling nothing having to take you out. You are just another rat in a barn. Nothing a well placed BB shot or barn owl, cat, corn snake, mink, terrier can't handle. Stay out of my barn.Just saying.

Actually no. If anything the US has more agencies investigating hate crimes and therefore engaging in preventative measures. You under estimate the good work done because its kept secret. Canada does not spend the resources per capita the way the US does on counter intelligence. In all democracies the struggle to balance free speech with containing hate crimes or incitement to cause violence is a precarious exercise. The US has more people than Canada and so a far more complex set of scenarios to deal with, however if you read the legal decisions on free speech we are not that different. Its gun control and extent of government regulation where our laws differ.

Ghost stated: "You cannot talk about the state of the troops after the war without understanding how we got there in the first place." The above has nothing to do with deciding whether vets need proper follow up on their return. I again repeat, the above is a deflection from the issue. It blames troops for doing what they do and suggests if they don't pursue a cause Ghost agrees with, what they should just all come back and rot? Pseuto intellectual debates about what Ghost feels is a proper use of soldiers does not determine their needs on return and never did...hard as it for Ghost to believe.

Relax homie. Your attempts at sounding ghetto are past pathetic. Marcus Hudson Jones. This comment shows your selective b.s.: "This is about a government that has, for so long, received very little criticism because they have been able to buy the support of most Western governments. " Yah Russia, China don't support SA only the West. For that matter the West, Russia, China don't support Iran. Your selectivity and attempt to pin this on the West while you shrill for the Iranian government, Hezbollah and Syria's puppet regime is par for the course. You have zero credibility suggesting to anyone they are inconsistent or selective in who they criticize. Start with yourself Marcus Hudson Mohammed Jones or whatever name it is.

Right you are all for vets. Good for you.

Why must you be complementary. I equate them with amoeba. They multiply pretty good but don't do much else.

Kind of stupid to think we Canadians are not stupid don't you think? Wait that was stupid of me to ask.

Wow I wish you would do less talking and more reading: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/keith-beardsley/trudeau-deficit_b_9226722.html https://www.spencerfernando.com/2017/11/07/waste-trudeau-government-spending-5-million-skating-rink-outside-parliament/ https://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/06/trudeau-government-spending-millions-on-digital-ads/ https://globalnews.ca/news/2971972/liberals-shelled-out-62-9-billion-in-unprecedented-first-quarter-says-budget-watchdog/ https://www.spencerfernando.com/2018/07/09/fleeced-after-trudeau-government-wasted-our-money-building-a-road-for-the-jordanian-military-that-country-wouldnt-even-buy-our-leftover-tanks/ https://trudeaublog.wordpress.com/category/waste/ https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/macdougall-trudeau-is-spending-your-money-like-you-dont-care-he-may-be-right

You came on this thread to suggest soldiers do not deserve sufficient assistance on their re-entry to Canada because they chose their profession. You were told that made as much sense as saying a fireman does not deserve assistance when burned because he chose to be a fireman. Of course you responded as you did. You have no idea how to defend your idiotic contention so you name call. I expect that from you. Next you also can't grasp the point West made so engaged in similar childish response. The point made wasvSaudi Arabia does not do business solely with the US. It buys weapons from Canada, China, Russia, other countries. Erdogan of Turkey now pisses on Saudi Arabia but had no problems borrowing money from it. I would suggest he uses this latest murder to detract from the ones he engages in, in his own country. The same Erdogan has killed journalists and political opponents in his country and has imprisoned many more and now holds the Saudis to a level he openly flaunts. As for you, your timing as to when you choose to wear your righteous, is pointless. You already show cerebral irritations and other manifestations of orally transmitted phenomena that appear to be impacting on your political immunity system.

You know how it is... he wiĺl be the first to use his status to avoid service but demand it serve him..

Instead of lecturing Trump alone lecture evey nation that does business with Saudi Arabia including us because if you don't your selectivity renders your call out defective. By the way all you trendy leftists jumping on the cause of the week ....where the phack have you been about Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Arab League nations that to this day gave been killing theirvregime opponents... why the sudden concern? Do you mean to suggest you have no idea what Iran et all are doing? Tell me when Justin Trudeau's brother living off the family trust did a documentary applauding Iran's theocracy where were you all? Where the phack have you been as hundreds of journalists have been killed and tortured in Arab League nations? Which one of you trend of the week liberal guilt types cares about the thousands of students being tortured in Iran? What Saudi Arabia did is a continuation of what they have been doing since Britain created this kingdom. I love you selective trendy leftists suddenly notice it kills it's opponents. Good God your band wagon timing is a joke. Trump is a who're to business interests of course. How is Trudeau any different...The entire world's economies are generated by military sales. Its why trendy leftists live the lifestyles they do. Get back to me when you band wagon jumpers hold all countries to your guilt of the week standards.

Yah you have made it clear..phack soldiers who come back injured they chose their profession...now you post such crap in this thread too...tell me do you think they asked to come back home maimed, injured, etc.? What in your world firemen who get burned choose to because they choose to be firemen? They deserve to get exposed to cancerous chemicals and die because they chose to bevfiremen? . Police choose to get shot at and deserve to die because they chose that profession? Teachers, nurses, doctors, deserve to get attacked and injured because they chose their professions? Hey now we should get read of WSIB while we are at it. Screw anyone who is injured working. Drive a car...Hey die..Why should someone come and help you in an accident, you chose to drive Go pose your stupid comments to someone else and respond to the thread. Stop using it as yet another opportunity to piss on soldiers.

On this debate for the record there are things about foreign policy I agree with Ghost on and I appreciate he debates as does the rest of you except Eye who thinks the topic is a giggle. I reduce the topic to what it is proper care for vets with specific re-entry issues because that is what it is. I quite frankly think the esoteric debates miss the point of a bed pan, a bandage, a warm bed. I do not feel superior to anyone on this...on the contrary I just don't get how people can't get the basic issue of sufficient vet care. It's about priorities of what our government chooses to spend tax money on. When the revenue comes in from pot do any of you think it won't be wasted? That's the issue. How do we spend it. Army Guy has no explaining to do to me. Nov.11 is coming up and my 93 year old vet father will quietly remember. How can I not hear Army's points? Hate war not soldiers. Soldiers don't create war they end it. They inherit and clean up the failures of politicians pandering to our lifestyles.

What I would expect from you. The word is valor and it doesn 't trump anything. It speaks for itself loudly through silence.

Ghost asks how to fix this..all anyone has to do is type into google, what the federal government wastes money on. It is there in your face where the money that should have gone to vets was spent on. It ain't rocket science. It ain't foreign policy. It ain't about Eye's or Ghost's selective causes to feel guilty about. It's about priorities. It is about starting with vets we owe a moral obligation to not the causes these two choose.

Everyone of your responses has. Everyone of Ghosts posts has. Michael Gardner's sophistic lecture on healing the government avoided the issue. This is not about foreign policy you don't agree with. This is not about you, your political ideology. This is about posttraumatic stress syndrome and allocating sufficient funds to provide post war pyscho-therapy. It's about proper re-entry support..family and relationship, vocational, job placement counselling. It's about housing. It's about access to proper artificial limb maintenance, learning sign language, braille or how to use make up and wigs with burn scars. It is about coping with chronic pain, bad backs, knees, hips, shoulders that don't work, migraines, bloody ears and noses, jaw pain, incontinence, impotence, constant digestion problems. Not one of you will discuss the real issue. You run from it. The vets need nurses, counsellors, facilities, equipment, sufficient diapers, caphiters, medication, dental, skin, other kinds of care. This isn't about the horseshit on this thread you use to avoid the topic. It is about taking money and instead of spending it on certain projects re-routing it to vet affairs.

Yah. I do think it an appropriate analogy.. Michael Hardener, Maple Leaf Forum Enema. You might want to try it on yourself.

The topic was about not taking care of vets. It was deflected to criticizing foreign policy and theoretical references to improving government as well as the usual sanctimonious leftist holier then thou presumptuous comments from Marx and Angels about the evils of the West and how we are to blame for anything wrong. The topic is vets. Vets don't draft or create foreign policy. They are workers. They are sent out to clean the toilets Fred Engels aka Eye and Karl Marx aka Ghostcough won't clean. Trying to suggest, infer, that their need to get assistance is related to foreign policy they did not make is illogical. Issuing leftist sputum that unless foreign policy is to the liking of Fred and Karl, vets should not get assistance as they have inferred is illogical. Aid is required because of what they were asked to do which then caused them injuries. Disagreeing with what they did is not material to determining the need, the actions they were asked to take does. The ridiculous position of Eye and Ghost is what, blow off vets because you don't like the orders they were given? Ghost claims he agrees vets need help but spews pages questioning foreign policies and using that as a pretense to criticize military service. Oh fuck that to quote him. Oh fuck the need to provide platitudes on how to improve government. This is about post traumatic stress syndrome. It requires proper therapy the government won't fund because the government believes in spending it elsewhere. It's called re-entrt issues, jobs, housing, getting back to family relationships, daily routine. Its about learning to use a new limb, learn sign language, learn how to read Braille, deal with hideous scars, permanent chronic pain, headaches, diapers, dentures that do not fit, feet that swell, knees, hips that won't bend. It's about erectile dysfunction, migraines, nose bleeds, heart issues. None of you mention that. You run from the issue to your ivory towers to discuss foreign policy. Its about cleaning diapers, changing bed sheets. Such issues do not need your prattle about imperialism. These men and women served, they did so because they had no choice, our government is most certainly responsible as it sent these people. It is this simple. Give me the damn budget and what the Liberals spend money on, and I will find the fucking money. It's called priorities. The kind of priorities Trudeau does not have because He's never had to clean a toilet or see a man's bowels blown out.

Read back the above. It sets the tone for your arrogance. Come on its not that hard to figure out!

Those are just some of the words that establish your tone. Remember that when you respond denying you engage in personalization.

If you mean angry thanks I am not. I am quite happy when I dish it back at thou and thine righteous flock of proseltyzers. Y'all should stop posing as fishermen given you are all pork eaters. If you mean I am the other kind of mad of course.

Systemic, inherent, visible minority..nice to see the CIA using such terms. The leftist lecturers with their bull shit platitudes are just the latest version of proseltyzers. Far as I am concerned the whole stinking lot of you leftist geniuses need to clean out what is under your foreskins.