Canuckistani

My 2 cents is that worrying about trolling isn't worth the effort. The way to deal with trolls is not to respond. If you do engage the supposed troll in discussion, it can't be a troll, since you deem the subject worthy of discussion.

Older than what? Where I'm going with this is that if you accept that the earth is 4 billion years old, the how long do you think humans have been on the planet? Science says homo sapiens have been here about 200,000 years. So 200,000 years ago, did God come down and plant us here? OTOH, there seem to be a lot of species that have disappeard - the dinosaurs for instance, long before we came on the scene. Did God just get tired of dinosaurs and get rid of them? Is that how you see new species coming to this earth - God comes down and just drops the off one day - millions of one species? The catholic church has no problem with the concept of evolution. They just believe God started the whole thing and may be invisibly (to us) guiding it. Science can't argue against that, except to say it's unlikely,. because the supernatural is beyond its ken. But by the logic you've so often used on this forum, Catholic Christians, it sounds like, don't agree with what you beleive, so that would invalidate all of Christianity since they and you don't agree on this fundamental point. But personally I have no problem with what Catholics believe, since it doesn't deny what science tells us. The Dalai Lama, too, has said that if there is a conflict between Buddhist beliefs and science, Buddhism needs to change its beleifs. Good to see that some people of faith are open minded. Actually what you said about God and the bible leaving it to science to reveal exactly how creation happened and is happening - you're already there. You already have the open mind that Catholics have. From that perspective, evolution is God's way of creating humans, and it just takes a lot longer than the time scales we think of. So why do you work so hard to deny evolution? What is it about this part of science that has you so upset? Why not just go with "God is slowly evolving his creation, and we may not be the end point of it either'. Is that too scary a concept, that we may not be his ultimate design?

And private companies need to make a return on their investment. In BC, the govt sucks out the profits from BC Hydro and puts them into general revenue. Certainly better than those profits just doing to private companies. Same with ICBC actually - part of my insurance costs is like a tax, since the govt takes the excess profits, but at least I get a return on that money in govt services or lower taxes. Again, better than enriching some huge insurance company unless I own a lot of stock in it.

1. How old do you think the earth is? Science says 4 billion years. What do you say?

More ideological blinkers: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/07/19/insurance050719.html

This is what's wrong with contracting out this sort of thing. These societies need to maintain funding, so they try ways to bring in more money. Why isn't child protection provided by the government? The govt is just trying to get the service on the cheap, with the usual catastrophies. And to be clear, these were not civil servants. But don't let your ideological blinders get in the way.

so what about people who like to fling terms like racist, anti-semite, etc about? I mean, they probably do see the person they are hurling it at as such, but it's sure a way to derail discussion and a very serious insult.

Didn't think I'd ever do it, but thumbs up on that post.

I think there's more to it than you guys are willing to acknowledge. People, most of us, seek a sense of oneness, have a sense of a deeper connection with the world than just thru their senses analysed by logic. Many people will have this sense with nature or music or love or what have you. Spirituality, the deeper part of religion addresses this, or tries to anyway. And many people are open to this without having to deny science or somebody else's beliefs. The problem is when the religions that arise from this spirituality try to move beyond it to being a political or power system, or a pacifier for people who can't handle the unknown and unstateable and then try to lay that on everybody else. But the materialist crowd does the same at times, by denying this deeper connection. Because it is like Coyote walking out over the cliff. Can be scary.

The easy rebuttal to the universe needing a cause is what caused the cause? But let's say there is some eternal causitive force that gives rise to the big bang - it it doesn't require an intelligence, and if there is some intelligence to it (ie the coherence of natural forces) it's a very removed intelligence. No guy in the sky, no son to take on human form, etc. Just an "intelligence" that makes the universe work. Not much to pray to, no heaven to go to.

What's wrong with YHWH anyway? 6 days to make the universe? STVJBS could do it in about an hour with a 3D printer. And PnnTllr could do it just by snapping their fingers. (I know, I know, no fair, there's two of them.) But seriously, why did it take God any time at all to create the universe? You'd think he'd just make it so in an instant.

I don't. They'll just be more careful to not let it leak out. The reason this was leaked is because the Liberals are so disliked people are ratting them out all over, including their own supporters. This is what happens when govts are going down. For this to change, the bloc voters would have to cut that out, I don't see that happening any time soon. When you have the premier smiling and waving as floats go by glofifying terrorists, you know they'll do anything to suck up to votes no matter where or how they have to get them. Or when an Indo Canadian MP writes a character reference for a gang banger convicted of srug dealing. Power is the name of the game. The Liberals enact policies that benefit their constituency, ie business, the NDP does it with govt unions. It's all part of the same game. You should start a new politica party - the NPP or Non Pandering Party. You'll probably get all sorts of support until people realize you're serious and not going to throw them any goodies. At that point you'll have to change the name to the DP or Dodo Party, because you'll be headed for extinction. I still can't believe you're as naive as you sound. I guess your'e just having fun winding me up.

I'm not making a defense, I'm saying all parties do it. I have no use for the BC Liberals, I'm glad this has blown up for them. But I'm not so stupid or naive to think that the NDP doesn't play the same game. Or any other party.

They haven't actually made that defense. That's my observation. They've apologized for planning to offer insincere aplogies. I don't care for political pandering either. I don't care for what it says about our society that there is an "ethnic vote" although others might point out there's a non-ethnic vote as well. But it's just the reality. All political parties try to please as many people as possible to try to win power.

OK, I will. Or won't, or whatever you're talking about.

They're only pissed becasue the political pandering was so blatant. For the pandering by the politicians to work, the pandered to have to do their bit and give the pols their votes. Otherwise the political pandering would stop in short order. Every party plays this game/ The Libs caught caught is all. Everybody uses public funds for partisan purposes, again, the Libs just got caught is all.

Ok, play your pc fiddle. the pols aren't, the ethnic voters aren't, nobody is much. Groups of people show tendencies towards certain behaviors. No matter how you pick out that group from the total population. Doesn't mean that any individual you meet will show that tendency, but sufficient of them do to make it worthwhile for pols to pander to them. Or advertisers. How you've lived to be old and still so naive is beyond me. I think you're just puffing yourself up - or just having me on.

Same one. And I don't conform to stereotype either, I skew more left more often. Doesn't mean that you can't look at what older white males do as a group tho, or brown young women or however you like to cut and dice the population. And pols of all stripes have experts who do just that. One thing, most OWMs don't play as/are as naive as you do - usually.

Unfortunately not for long, then we all play the silly game again.

OK, Besty has established she's an intelligent design person - ie God set the universe in motion with the big bang and then stood back and watched it run. Not sure why she's arguing against evolution, because intelligent design just says that God created evolution along with all other natural laws. Is it possible Betsy is a bit confused?

He was using metaphorical language to not confuse the old timey folks. How was God to know that new timey folks would take him literally? Mabye that's why He's not talking to people and giving them books to guide them anymore. Oh, wait, he did, 1300 years ago he talked to Mohammed and got him to write it all down. Guess God had given up on Christians by then.

The usual canard. Rue loves to call people anti-semites - thats calling them racists, but you use weasel words when the shoe is on the other foot. You usually make well thought out posts, but are you saying that the ultra-orthodox Jews who would use Rabbinical courts are westernized and liberated in their attitudes towards women? that their women would not feel pressured to agree to use Rabbincal courts? Give your head a shake. Are you seriously going to have laws that say Jews good, so religious courts settling divorce and inheritance courts for them, but Muslims bad, so none for them. Are we really going to walk down that road?

Oh, give it a rest. If you're older you can't possibly be so naive. Or you're just puffing yourself up. Older white males skew conservative - that's an accepted fact.

Good for you, nobody does. As immigrants become more comfortable in their new country, become 2nd gen etc, they "grow up" and vote more accross the spectrum. But the only reason parties play this game is because it pays off at the polls. Not because they want to upset your pc sensibilities. And the 'ethnic voters" play right along, because there's something in it for them as well. One hand washes the other. Just as the CPC is going to throw some red meat at one of their constituencies, older white males, if they think they can get away with it. See how it works? Everybody is an ethnic voter in a way. The older white males just aren't organzed the same way.

The truth hurts. You think politicians expend all this energy if there was no point to it. Or that "community leaders" don't exploit this? It's nice to be all pc, but the real world often isn't. Have you really never heard about the scandals of signing up Indo Canadians en masse who may not even speak English but jsut vote as they're told, or that often their membership fees were paid by somebody else? Where do you live that you can avoid having your innocence tainted by this information? The ethic voters are quite happy to play this game, as are all politica parties. You're just not supposed to be so blatant about it.