Canuckistani

What they do with their state is their business. But it's the only choice with the possibility of peace - this is recognized even by those former heads of Mossad. It may not be the ideal neighbor to Israel, but it's the best choice Israel has. Annex the West Bank, and Israel just buys noting but trouble. Keep taking the best land, and the calls of Apartheid will just get stronger and Israel become more and more of a pariah. Sometimes you just have to make the least worst choice.

Are you presenting me with a false choice here? Who are the Muslim Arabs you are talking about? How do the settlers prevent these eveil people from getting their way?

@Rue. The thing is you are conflating settlements and military occupation of the West Bank. The former, I see only as an impediment to peace, and if the Settlers get their way will lead to the demographic destruction of Israel or a mass ethnic cleansing that would set that area aflame. It only endangers Israel, doesn't make it safer. The latter, as long as some Palestinians continue to attack Israel, (Just as only some Israelis support the settlements) is perfectly justified in my view. I do hold Israel to a different standard by saying they should make the first move. Because they are in the one up position, and quite frankly because they are, and lay claim to being, the more civilized society. That comes with certain obligations of behavior.

The philosopher that August refers to is certainly not in Betsy's corner. He's not posititing an all wise and powerful being who makes things and drops them down on earth, but a universe with consciousness at its root, and an evolving consciousness - the universe is getting to know itself. If that's God, he was a zygote when the universe is born, and has some growing up to do along with the rest of us. The philosopher is saying that hard materialism doesn't explain a huge part of our existence, our consciousness.

He would have been better off addressing that reminder to Betsy. Betsy certainly seems to know for sure, tho she's not willing to tell us about it.

Well, scribblet said so it would seem to be accurate as aknoledged by IDF.

Really good point.

That is the actual message tho, not that the wearer is him/herself a racist, but that they benefit from it. I'm not really sure what the benefit is supposed to be exactly.

"Hey Whitey, you're an unwitting beneficiary of racism."

Science always works on consensus - there's always the accepted paradigm subject to revisions, and once in a while there's a paradigm breaker comes along, that in turn becomes the new paradigm. I don't think there's ever 100% agreement in science, and that's a good thing. But if 90% of scientists in field belive the date points to theory x, and 10% believe it points to y, then x seems like the better bet to go with.

Awareness is good. You'd have to be very stupid to not be aware that African-Americans are an economically disadvantaged group. But putting it in racial terms just sows conflict. Make people aware of the lack of social mobility and great income inequality in the US, and you maybe move toward changing conditions for all poor people, no matter their color. Or is that not good enough, are black people supposed to get an extra hand up to make up for their suffering? That seems to be behind a lot of these race based arguments. Not just a fairer deal for everybody, but some people should be more equal than others.

Funny how a thread about how ID works gets hijacked (by both sides) into more nattering about evolution. We've had the evolution debate ad nauseum. It won't convince Betsy, she's certainly not going to convince us. How about we leave this thread for discussion about ID. Execept there seems to be no one who has anything intelligent to say about it. We had some stupid comments at the beginning, then Betsy telling us she can't tell us how ID works in her own words, and then the usual evolution back and forth. Betsy (or anybody else who understands ID) how do new species appear on earth under ID theory? You are great for challenging evolution theory, but won't put out what you actually believe so it can be challenged. I guess it's because you realize you don't have a leg to stand on.

God is omniscient and omnipotent. Of course he could just create something like that without breaking a sweat. Thing is if there's a God like that, there's no point in science, since he can change any of the rules of scienc in an instant. So you can't use science to try to validate the bible, say. Or invalidate it of course. He could come down at any time, tell us fool on us, the earth is only 6000 years old, but he tricked us into thinking we had evidence it was so much older. He could come down and tell us that really we're lilke the people in the Matrix, just living a dream, or that we don't physically exist at all. But a God like that has to take responisblity for everything that happens in the universe. Evil for instance. Mishaps where people thank God for saving them - why didn't he save all the people that do suffer terrrible mishaps? Babies born with terrible diseases who only suffer and die - why does he do that? Why create beings who have sufficient consciousness to suffer, but not enough to alleviate the suffering? We might as well give up on science in that case. Just flop around in the mud until we die to go to our just reward and be with Him. As long ase we beleive in Jeebus anyway. Even if we've never heard of Him. If God is omnipotent and omnisicient, he's one wild and crazy guy.

Betsy - how do new species appear on the earth? How does that work? That is the topic of this thread, and you've posted a lot of words here without once adressing the topic.

Thing is, that as long as Israel has the settlements, it does not look like it wants peace. You don't annex someone's land all the while claiming you want to make peace. Or as we see, you do, but nobody believes you. If Israel closed the settlements and continue to be attacked, they could have all the checkpoints and restrictions in the West Bank they want, and I would support them. But settlements contribute nothing to Israeli security, in fact quite the opposite. It does seem that Israel wants to move toward an appartheid state, taking the best of the West Bank for Jews, and pushing the Arabs into Arabistans. If that continues, it will be Israel's downfall at some point. Look at the recent doc interviewing the past 6 chiefs of Mossad. All are doves, all want a two state solution with closing of most settlements. Because they deem it the only possible road to peace.

this wrist band reminds me of a sci fi story I read. A totally equal society, where people had to wear various impediments so they could function no better than the next person. In this case it the band seems to signify that any acheivements of the wearer are not his but only because of white privilege, so why try? Do the black students have to wear black ones when they do well in athletics? What's the point of the wrist band? If not guilt, is it meant to instil gratitude in the wearer? "Whoohee, look at what I get for being white"?

Sure, like Chinese employers only hiring Chinese, Punjabi employers hiring only Punjabis. We've been thru this discussion before, and the same people for these wrist bands saw nothing wrong with that. Well, we all know that only white people can be racist.

Me too, that was my point. Affirmative action, with two equal candidates, one black, one white, I have no problem with at all. This could be a very sound business decision. Preferring the black candidate with inferior credentials just because of color, that is not right.

What does bankruptcy for a country mean? Lending involves risk, that's why there's so much interest charged. Lenders should take a hit. You'd better believe in all these countries it's the little people that take the biggest hit, because they don't have much cushion in the first place.

We could have the white Slovenian fresh off the plane vs the 2nd Gen Indo-Canadian. You really think Mr Sambunjak will experience white privilege over Mr Gill? But Michael's point seems to be about the effect of slavery on Afro-Americans. Seems to me that often the Afro-American candidate will be chosen, assuming they are qualified, because the company wants to meet a racial quota. A black one-legged lesbian would hit the jackpot.

HIyo.

If you believe something, you should be able to explain the gist of it in straight forward language. Or as Einstein said, "if you can't explain it to a five year-old, you don't understand it yourself." Betsy doesn't seem to be able to explain her beliefs, needs to use others' words for them. Being a ventriloquist's dummy is no way to grow through life. I started this topic because I came across the idea in rational wiki - you want to stump and ID person, ask them to explain how it works. I repeat my question, how do new species appear on this earth? When the eye was designed, how did all the new species with eyes get here? Come on Besty, surely you have an answer here. If you have to cheat, just take somebody elses writing and put it in your own words.

We know how easy it is to breed dogs for certain characteristics. Works just as well for humans. So here's an idea - slaves brought to America were selected for their physical strenght. This was further tested during the horrendous conditions of the trip to America - many did not make it. Intelligence, on the other hand would not have been selected for, inffact selected against. See where I'm going with this? Is that the white privilege, now that physical abilities aren't very helpful in attaining success unless you excel in sport or dancing? Yeehaw, this racist stuff is fun. As much truth to this as to white privilege. Never mind the white wrist band, just give the me the whole sheet to wear.

Many brown (or is it yellow?) people do better than the whites. Excel in school, come here with nothing and quickly acheive wealth. What color wrist band do they have to wear? Same with Jews - do very well as a people, the askenazim anyway. I guess yellow bands for them, huh? No no, I know. White people do well because of white privilege. Non-white people do well despite white privilege. Whites are so useless, just succeed because of privilege. And all whites are the same of course. I sure hope they make non-whites who can pass wear those things too, since they are also beneficiaries of the privilege. At one time being black but being able to pass was a great privielege (ie advantage) indeed, as long as nobody found out. The wristband would help with that.

Why? Any policy that addressed poverty will provide unequal benfits to the race that's underprivileged. But why give a well off person of that race special treatment, but not a poor "privileged" person. You're just continuing with racial devisivness.