betsy

The word claim denotes nothing,( negative or positive) it is an adjective for something someone said or wrote. I am a stickler for defintions, myself. What gives this story credence is: 1.David Colvin, was in a position to know. He never claimed to know anything. He said he heard it from someone in the European Arab Parliamentary Association. "He heard it from a contact in the Euro-Arab Parliamentary Association three days after the Air France flight from Tel Aviv to Paris was seized in mid-air by Palestinians and German terrorists on June 27, 1976." See, Kuzadd. There you go. Argus explained it further.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If people are offended by that, then they can boycott the bar. When the bar has no clientele because no one wants to be caught dead in a place that shows bigotry towards that group, they'll change their rules or go bankrupt. It's up to the owner to decide how best to run his business. Here's the best part. If gay people are pissed because they don't have a club, since all the bigoted breeders banned them from their clubs, the homosexuals can make their own clubs and ban straight people. Once again... capitalism should teach owners that opening your establishment to as many people as possible is more profitable than running a business that is considered racist or bigoted. But, if an owner wants to shoot themselves in the foot, that's their prerogative. I quite agree with you here. I dont think a lawsuit is necessary. I would just go someplace else and say "their loss". But this is funny considering your outrage over the church's position about not choosing homosexuals to be leaders. I also think the lady suing eharmony over its lack of a women seeking women section should buzz off. I agree. The woman should just take her business elsewhere!

Check it out, Kuzadd. Look what you just said. Colvin may be in a position to know....and since he is in a position to know, obviously he is not sticking his neck out about something that he knows is not conclusive! Therefore, this is just an allegation! Check out the definition of "allegation."

WHO sits in those "band council?" I'm not denying about the existence of corruptions in the government. Like I've said....we've had audits to look into those things! The same thing that should also be applied to FN 'self-governing" communities! I'm questioning the fact that FN leaders are resisting to have these audits....resisting the scrutiny of books and accountability on the basis of this so-called "rights" to this so-called "self-governance." But the focal point of my rant is more about this so-called "descrimination" and so-called "mistreatment" that these FN radicals and some hypocritical or ignorant bleeding-heart-supporters are repeating like a mantra and loosely throw about everytime something happens! Like this petty Tim Horton incident! Petty! Yes, I say it's petty....compared to the descrimination and mistreatment that your women are enduring all this time....today...as we speak! If you want to insist on talking about descrimination and mistreatment, and abuses, well....let's talk about your women! Look FN folks! The big bright flashing arrow is pointing at Y O U as a good example of what gender descrimination is really all about! And you don't even have the stomach to admit it! The decency to acknowledge that this appalling mistreatment and descrimination against your own women does indeed exists and need to be rectified...that your laws need to be tweaked to get on board the 21st century! This Leona Freed and some FN women had been screaming since 2001! Perhaps even longer than that! Under the Liberal government! Now, this current government is trying to do something about these women's situation! And somebody's not happy about that! So don't preach to me about descrimination! Either you guys are also liars or you need to educate yourselves harder! Obviously you don't recognize the farce in your position! ***** Note: Posit, pls don't take my rant personally. I'm just spouting off...I'm sick and tired of this bs coming from radical FN activists and ignorant hypocritical bleeding hearts.

What have I denied? I am speaking the truth from my experience, from my Nation and from the Nation of 7 bands that I work for. Well I'm speaking the truth from my own experience of having worked in a bar. Why, do you think this "drunken Indian" is just some urban legend that everybody had come up with...from coast to coast to coast? And way beyond our own soil....all across the USA? Your "truth" is more questionable since you're working for the Band. You could very well be one of the lucky recipients of gratuities...who'd do all they can to keep the goodtimes rolling! Inaccurate my foot! At least my "BS" are backed and supported by something. Your people cannot fix your problems until you've all accepted and acknowledged that your people do have a problem. That's just that! So instead of you wasting your energies trying to pin the blame on others.....you better wake up and pin it on those who are really responsible. Your first priority should be doing your own house-cleaning. Once you've eliminated your peoples descriminatory laws and mistreatment of your women.....only then will you have the credibility in preaching to us about descrimination and mistreatment! Bingo! So you're admitting you are refuting what you don't know anything about. Hah, makes sense to me why your statements are accurate! In other words you just admitted you're full of BS! LOL! But you work for the Band, don't you? I guess you're just being loyal to your employers. As for our non-native leaders....yep some do practice....but there is auditing. The last time I heard, FN leaders do not want their books opened for scrutiny claiming the "right to self-governance." No, I wouldn't say natives are bad and evil. But I'd say they are very much guilty of gender descrimination! In this modern times, there is no excuse for that!

FNANDPROUD, here's a list of some allegations of corruptions.... "Over the last three years, the number of tribal fraud allegations investigated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has increased to 48 from 3. Last summer, about one- third of Canada's 912 Indian groups failed to file audits with the federal government. A steady stream of stories about corruption have appeared in Canada's newspapers, tales that have contributed to a hardening of the attitudes of non-native Canadians to tribal leaders. In Nova Scotia last spring, the chief of a Micmac reserve was found to be compensating himself with the equivalent of about $275,000 American in salary and expenses; at the same time the provincial premier's salary was $53,300. On the reserve, which is $10 million in debt and has an unemployment rate of about 70 percent, the average per capita income of the 2,700 members is $7,735. In Canada, however, the message of tribal corruption has been most vividly illustrated by reports of junkets to sunny climes. In Toronto, government support for an Indian addiction center, Pedahbun Lodge, was cut after it was disclosed that $110,000 in treatment money was used last year to send employees to California. In Alberta, unfavorable publicity forced the Samson Cree tribal government to cancel a 12-day trip to Hawaii for 55 members. But, according to auditors, $200-a-day stipends paid to each trip participant were never returned. Newspapers disclosed that the former director of the Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority had used provincial government money to travel with his wife to Barcelona, Brisbane, Paris and London. The most damaging scandal occurred in November in Sagkeeng First Nation, about 200 miles northeast of here. In 1996, a federal audit had found that directors of the Virginia Fontaine Addictions Foundation Inc. had used program funds for employee trips, characterized as research, to Australia, Hawaii and Las Vegas. In September, the center closed for renovations and sent 70 employees on a weeklong Caribbean cruise, billed as "a professional development retreat." Foundation officials have given contradictory explanations for that trip's financing, including payments by the center to golf clubs, Ticketmaster and a jewelry store in St. Maarten. Barb Gervais, a center worker, said all the young people at the center were sent home before the cruise. She said it was her second, after a 1998 voyage to Mexico, the Cayman Islands and Jamaica, with center officials and a Health Canada official from the federal government. In early December, the Mounties arrested a center employee and charged her with threatening Ms. Gervais and another whistle-blowing former employee. Finally, federal support was cut off after center officials refused to cooperate with auditors. " http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/...omen_fight_.htm

I can't reply to all of the inaccurate information you seem to think you are so knowledgable on. I am amazed that you have visited all the FIRST NATIONS BANDS in Canada to know that there is so much corruption. See, you seem to think the Society is YOURS. Well obviously Geoffrey isn't the only one who knows about corruptions in band councils! You must've been so busy that this went by you....and you hadn't noticed. Pay more attention to your women! This madam should be your leader! Canada's Tribal Women Fight (Mostly Male) Graft By JAMES BROOKE The New York Times January 1, 2001 DAKOTA PLAINS, Manitoba Against a winter prairie backdrop of bare trees, honking Canada geese, and four-wire fences, Leona Freed stands out larger than life. Eyes blazing and firing verbal buckshot, she is a new kind of Indian radical. Her primary targets are not white people, but rather Canada's tribal chiefs, whom she accuses of "rigging elections, stealing government money, and going on fancy gambling vacations in the States, while their people live in third world poverty." "If the non-natives operated their businesses like the chiefs, they would be in jail," said Mrs. Freed, who is 48 years old and pays household bills by bagging onions at $5.20 an hour. Her husband, Glen Freed, has had a towing business. Mrs. Freed, one parent was Sioux and the other Ojibway, is part of a loosely organized new movement largely made up of Indian women who are taking on Canada's native establishment and are determined particularly after embarrassing and well-publicized corruption scandals to make clear how the equivalent of $4 billion American is spent on Canada's one million indigenous people, including Inuit and others. Unchecked corruption and nepotism pushed these women to violate a central tenet of minority group politics: breaking ranks when dealing with the white majority. Many tribes explicitly excluded women from leadership roles and from property inheritance, justifying it as tradition. Such thinking has also defined tribal membership. An Indian man who marries a non-Indian woman has full rights of membership, including a share in federal benefits. Indian woman who marries a non-Indian man often forfeits these benefits for herself, and they do not apply to her husband at all. In 1985, Indian women who had married non-Indian men regained their legal status as Indians in Canada. But on returning to reserves, they often found themselves off lists for services. Noting that she has six children and nine grandchildren, Mrs. Freed said: "The women are tired of what's happening. We want a future for our children." "Suicides, abortions, crime rates are all going up," Mrs. Freed said with a raw anger. (Two days before, her 20-year-old niece, Jerilyn Dawn Price, mother of a small boy, had killed herself.) http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/...omen_fight_.htm This is when I say, YOU GO, GIRL!

Obviously you didn't even bother to read about Leona Freed. She must be a phariah for fighting for women's rights in your community! Well who's giving a load of BS? Your women has no right to property - the house - in cases of divorce right now. That's what the current government wants to change now! I don't have to be an expert on FN system! Prentiss talked about it on MDuffy Live only last week! Why is that? So you shouldn't look any further if you truly want to change things around. Start within your own community. In this day and age, man.....to treat a woman like that is a crime! If you want to point fingers as to where despair is coming from, point your fingers at your elders - for letting this treatment of women go on like this! Your children grow up watching their mothers treated as such in a country like Canada, and you rant about mistreatment???? The mistreatment suffered by Indians from "whitemen" happened in the P A S T, while the mistreatment of your women by their own people still goes on - N O W, in the present day! "Family law didn't apply in Freed's case, and still doesn't for many other women like her, because of where the abuse took place -- on a native reserve called Hollow Water, a couple of hours north of Winnipeg. And you try to deny it! Shame! Before you castigate us about descrimination and mistreatment - look at yourselves in the mirror!

Betsy, the documents being discussed were released at the UK national archives, they are here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...Edoc_Id=7705218 they are the British gov's own documentation. I know. But this document did use the words "claim", "may have had", and "allege." So there is nothing conclusive about it. Since the allegation - and at this point of documentation, it's nothing more than an allegation - had been "S U G G E S T E D" (pls note that very word was used), I would imagine that of course, the allegation had to be documented.

Fighting the native patriarchy Andrea Mrozek, Western Standard Published: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 Leona Freed's ex-husband physically abused her. But she had three children and stayed with him for about five years before walking out. For many women, finally leaving the abuse marks a new beginning: Assets in family law court are split 50-50, and a judge makes the call on support issues. That wasn't the case for Freed; leaving her ex only sparked bigger problems. Family law didn't apply in Freed's case, and still doesn't for many other women like her, because of where the abuse took place -- on a native reserve called Hollow Water, a couple of hours north of Winnipeg. Provincial and territorial family laws regarding matrimonial property rights don't hold on native reserves. When the band forbade Freed from taking her children with her when she left (her husband's mother was a band councillor), Freed had to work her way through the courts off-reserve for nine months to win her kids back. The experience heightened her native activism -- though not the sort you're likely to see on the evening news. That's because Freed isn't fighting for more money for natives, but rather for the basic freedoms the rest of Canadians take for granted: property rights, accountable governance and women's equality. When she's not at her day job as an aide in a Portage la Prairie, Man., seniors' home, Freed is working for the First Nations Accountability Coalition of Manitoba, which she started out of her home in 1995, and now has 5,000 native and Metis members across Canada. But Freed is ready to give up. The system, she senses, favours those Indian groups that play by Ottawa's rules -- selling out natives as second-class citizens, in exchange for billions in federal handouts. Other native groups rely on taxpayer money to fund their lobbying efforts. But all of Freed's presentations, travel, lobbying and reports are done without government help. (Freed admits she once accepted a $65,000 grant from the Ministry of Indian Affairs to fund a campaign against fraud in band council elections, but is ashamed of it, and says she would never do it again.) The Canadian Taxpayers Federation reports that funding for native programs has doubled in just over a decade, from $3.3-billion to $6.6-billion in 2002 -- with most of the money going to bands. In the wake of the November public-relations fiasco caused by the water crisis at Ontario's Kashechewan reserve, and with an election in the offing, the federal Liberals rushed through yet more native funding promises. But while aboriginal groups rake it in, the situation for the average native remains bleak, especially for women. Reserves often operate on a patriarchal system. Without equal rights, women become trapped in miserable marriages, knowing that leaving their husbands typically means cutting off their financial support. Leaving the reserve means abandoning all their property and, frequently, their children. More……….. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/is...19559b6474e&p=1

"REDEFINING ABUSE" by Terry O'Neill In 1986, the Sechelt Indian Band made history when it became the first Canadian tribe to successfully negotiate with Ottawa to achieve self-government. The landmark Sechelt Indian Band Self-Government Act not only freed the band from the constraints of the Indian Act, it set the standard for future native self-government treaties. And the man who led Sechelt to its monumentalachievement, then chief Stan Dixon, knew he had some people to thank - the staff at the Sechelt Residential School. Not long after the treaty was signed, Dixon wrote a letter to one of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic nun, thanking her for the crucial and beneficial role she and her colleagues had played in his education and crediting her directly for the subsequent success he and his band enjoyed. Dixon is what CBC reporters today would call one of the "survivors" of the residential school system - as if they had been concentration camps. In his letter, recounting his and his brother's experiences, Dixon wrote: "the residential school system taught us discipline and consistency early. Discipline to ethical responsibility with honour remains with me to this day and as long as I live on this earth....I do not regret growing up in the residential school because I trusted my caretakers as much as I love my mother, my grandfather, and all my extended family and relations in the Sechelt community." Of the 86,000 Indians today who attended residential schools, only 13,600 - about 15 per cent - have filed claims with Ottawa seeking compensation for sexual and physical abuse. The AFN, which speaks on behalf of more than 630 aboriginal communities in Canada, maintains that any child who attended one of the Indian residential schools was, by definition, abused. Boarding children at the schools, away from their parents, constitutes emotional abuse, for instance. Preventing a child from speaking his indigenous language would be considered a form of cultural abuse. In making the commitment to work on a "just and fair" resolution for all residential school attendees, the Liberal government has conceded to the AFN's definition of abuse. Former Supreme Court justice Frank Iacobucci will lead the team charged with hammering out the details of the compensation, but the feds have already agreed, "the main element of a broad reconciliation package will be a payment to former students along the lines referred to in [an earlier] AFN report." That report calls for a $10,000 payment to all former students, plus $3,000 for each year they attended. If these benchmarks stick, the total bill to taxpayers could be more than $4 billion. The payments would not stop sex - and physical-abuse litigants from pressing for additional damages. But even natives who say they were not abused, and who had positive experience at residential schools, insist their compensation package is justified. Excerpts from Western Standard Aug 8, 2005

Do you have any reference to back up your statement that native elders do any of the above or is this just more "common knowledge?" I know for myself, I realize the issues our elders carry with them, generations of residential school survivors, sexual abuse survivors. My Mother and Grandmother went to residential school. This is why so many turned to drinking to kill the pain. Even through this, I have always been told and supported that I can do better, that I can make a difference. Not once have I ever been told my someone in my family or my first nations community that I was hated or that my future was bleak. I do know that hateful words spill out when someone is drinking, so I can imagine in some families that this was the case. Then it must be the radical activists! The ones who don't want to listen to some level-headed elders! See? It's automatic...the way that "residential school" always come up from you guys like a talisman you automatically wield! YOU have obviously been indoctrinated....only you don't realize it. Well those residential schools were a big mistake...what started with good intentions had gone awry for some, ending up an atrocity for some! And the government had admitted to that. So when you guys keep bringing up the past ...what do you hope to achieve? I've read an article written by a woman FN activist.......who was opposed to what you're spouting here. She blames the elders for what's happening, citing the "indoctrination" of youth about their "hopelessness"......blaming the welfare system that keeps the FN rotting in such helplessness....and the blatant corruptions of your elders, which the previous government knows but had decided instead to let alone, turning a blind eye! Your FN system is very oppressive to your women! Your women cannot own land. In cases of FN divorce, your women gets nothing! Maybe that's why that poor young woman Drea talks about ended up with the bottle. What good is an education if she knows that back in the bosom of her community, she's nothing! Having worked in a bar, I've seen quite a few young native women pretty sauced up. And then, your youth! Something about your system are driving your folks to despair....and it ain't coming from us! edited: added a few

This is a good beginning. The internet should help spread this news around and hopefully, inspire other citizens from other countries to do the same. Those who fear of being under the rule of this oppressive religious extremist should use that same fear in fighting vigorously to squash it. Somebody should seriously think of getting rid of those clerics in that mosque....for good. Whatever form it takes. That should send a good message.

Key words to keep in mind in this article: "In extraordinary C L A I M that Israeli intelligence M A Y have had a hand in an airline hijacking before sending in commandos to rescue the hostages at Entebbe was made to the Foreign Office. An official noted: 'I F, as Mr Murray's sources A L L E G E, the aim of the Entebbe hijacking was to prevent the development of relations between Arafat and the West, and Arafat knew this, it would provide another motive for Arafat's recent approach to the French in Cairo warning us of further attacks.'' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/nhijack01.xml

Anyone who grew up being told and always reminded by their elders that the whole nation think they are good-for-nothing, and that they are hated, and belittled and will always be descriminated...that their future is so bleak....making them feel defeated before they had even begun....having to carry and deal with those heavy chips on their shoulders... is enough to drive anyone to drink.....and to get into drugs....and to commit suicide! Ever wonder why suicide is such a problem among your youth?

What exactly is assisted suicide? Someone who is in a vegetative state and on life support.....the life support is pulled out. That, to me is not assisted suicide. That is letting nature takes its course. I am in favor of this. But someone who is terminally ill, and deliberately injected with drugs to kill him, or deliberately murdered with the consent of the victim....that to me, is assisted suicide. I do not support this. This leaves a lot of room for abuse. I'll tend to believe that 99%, it is never to the best interest of the victim. With the kind of "ME" society we live in now....and the kind of moral relativism pervading society....handicapped people who inconvenience anyone are at great risk of getting snuffed. No matter how Latimer claims he murdered his daughter out of love....there is always at the back of my mind this nagging thought: he found the task of caring for her was just too much. he wanted to be free of her.

No, Cybercoma. Let's try once more. It's not the R E L I G I O N. The religion is Christianity. It's the D E N O M I N A T I O N - Anglicans - that accepted these men into the C H U R C H - their community. Now, the chances are by the looks of this man, say he's sixty now, joined the church 35 or 40 years ago. So it would be around 1975 or 1980, it's unlikely although not impossible, that he joined as an openly gay priest. I know that you're assuming that he joined as openly gay....but you're probably wrong, considering the time frame. Even if he was openly gay, he wouldn't have been accepted unless the bishops who accepted him were homosexuals themselves. And they definitely wouldn't have enetered as openly gay. It takes years to become a bishop. Now they've all come out of the closet and they want to change the rules of their denomination. No, the priests aren't free to do what they want. They're bound by the rules of their religion - Christianity. Now they've chosen to break those rules and sabotage their organization. They don't represent their religion. Let alone, its Leader. They're like hockey players playing with their own rules. They should be off the team, to use an analogy that most Canadians seem to understand. So, answer my 4 questions.

You think it's ignorant because perhaps you're only looking at it in one way. That this denomination is now changing its mind (again)....stemmed from the fact that this denomination had been coersced and prodded into going against its own belief in the first place. By who? By these homosexual bishops! I would be willing to bet that most of these homosexual bishops are not there because they believe the Word of God. On the contrary. They're there because they knew it was a hotbed of prey in the form of young choirboys. These aren't the representatives of Christianity. These are the representatives of the Anti-Christ in the same way that modern liberal atheism is. "I'll do what I want" could well be their motto. You know. Moral relativism. Anyway, going back to my issue. That's why I posed those 4 questions. They are very much relevant to the situation. The last time I look, ignorance was a lack of knowledge. I would venture to guess, and this is just a guess....that I know more about your liberal atheist secularism than you do. And it goes without saying, especially in light of your comments, that I know vastly more about christianity than you do. You don't seem to understand the differences between basic concepts such as denomination, church and religion. Do a little research. At least then you'd be credible in this discussion. Whether their belief is based on reality or whteher it's just a bunch of goooblygook makes no difference here! We still have freedom of religion as far as I know. People could very well be worshipping trees....that is still their belief. The only fault I can say of this denomination is: see what happens when you go wishy-washy with the teachings of your God....trying to be politically correct, and bowing down to pressures from immoral activist groups....at the expense of your belief? Their main problem was giving in in the first place! This denomination, and many other Christian denominations in my view are guilty of arrogance to think that they can play with Christ's teachings. Ha-ha! Are you serious? If I was a "kike" or a "nigger", why would I want to get into the KKK? One might ask the same question as to why a practicing homosexual would want to get into a religion that finds them immoral. So, should I assume you cannot answer my 4 questions?

So, a terminally ill woman will donate her kidneys to the winner in a reality tv contest. Three dying contestants vying for her kidney! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm This takes on a matter of life and death....a "sophisticated" version of gladiators fighting for their lives as viewers watched hungrily. What next? A contest on who'll have your wife for a night? Who'll de-flower your daughter?

I really would like to know what answers the other side would give to these questions. Cybercoma, QC, Kuzadd etc., Isn't it only being objective to try to understand? Four questions waiting to be answered. Please, do not answer the questions with questions. Just give me your views about these. I hope you guys aren't really deliberately ignoring this questions. Silence on these important questions could only mean that you cannot justfy the impositions of these homosexuals. In other words, you're stumped?

Versus what you are told in Sunday school ? Exactly this type of proselytizing that gets flame responses. I don't mind flames. It only means we're hitting nerves. Speaking of nerves, are you feeling a little....nervous? LOL!

You're right. Just ignore them They've got nothing important to say. Everything they say comes from within themselves. That's THEIR god.

What exactly do you mean by "existential?" Well, obviously with the fighting going on there, they need to give those areas their full attenton. I'd say that's better than having their concentration fully engaged over here! To say nothing of giving other countires who secretly harbor the desire to coddle, encourage, fund and abet terrorism considerable pause. Yep, they recruit all right but so far I haven't heard of any terrorist attacks against the USA after 9/11. Bull! It is still about their faith and religion! Al Qaeda may be a politcal movement now, but it is still using religion as a means to get these young recruits! Even without the wars now, you think they wouldn't come up with anything to justify terrorist acts? There were terrorist acts before 9/11! Again, what are you talking about an "existential threat?" How can it be existential and a threat? Existentialism at least implies a certain level of thought. Can you explain what you mean?

Nor do I wish anything of the sort. I am just not convinced that there is a threat of a Muslim rule destroying western civilisation and way of life unless impotent tyrants in the Middle-East are overthrown and their countries are invaded. I'm with WestViking here. A threat is a threat is a threat! What more do you want, several 9/11 and subway bombings before we acknowledge there is a threat? Heck, if I say I'd kill you, you'd have the cops on me for threatening you! Why would this be any different other than it's on a very much larger scale? Well, I'd rather the fighting be done there in those god-forsaken countries than here! That innocent civilians are hurt and killed is just too bad but the stark reality. Those civilians should blame the extremists in their midst....and should boot them out and destroy them! I'd rather the innocent civilians here remain safe! That's just human nature. It's either them or us!

So using that same logic, all the countries that came out of the Ottoman empire are illegitimate, including Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and (gasp) Israel. 1 Israel didn't (gasp) emerge from the Ottoman Empire, but from the Britsh via the (gasp) UN Since most anti-war people value the decision of the UN so much, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Emerging from the UN....the nation of Israel is therefore legitimate, no question about it!