betsy

Hmmmm.... Why, oh why are you guys so afraid of us bringing up religion? Gee, it's not as if we'd try to convert you! So everything is that simple eh? Just out of curiousity....how far back are we talking here when you say, "we've been over there KILLING them?"

WITH RELIGION in the lead. Bin Laden and his merrymen had been training in various places. Are you forgetting those pilots? Those pathetic martyrs drooling over the images of virgins awaiting them in paradise if they blow themselves up with the planes? If there are no volunteers for martyrdom, I wonder if Bin Laden will volunteer to do the job for the sake of - political terror? And who gave Bin Laden sanctuary? The Taliban!

Yup, and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi should be at the top of the list. Don't forget Michael Moore!

We could indulge you....but then, it wouldn't really be delving into the real reasons for this hatred, would it? So we just sort of "skim" over this? You wanted the "nitty-gritty". Religion, I'm afraid - no matter how we try to ignore or delude ourselves - is a big part of the nitty-gritty. Being an outsider of religion - what does that mean? You don't want to discuss anything that brings religion into it - even though it very much plays a very major role about this hatred - just because you do not believe in any religion? You wanted explanations - I take it because you want to understand. How will you understand if you don't go all the way? And no, once religion is taken away from this discussion, we are not lost. BUT the discussion is lost. This will be like the touted so-called "peer-review"....with results being rigged! Unless of course I misunderstood what you wish to attain of this topic. I was responding to your questions: Why do they hate us. Why do they hate freedom? So what are you really angling at?

This proves other criteria must be included with hate to perform such a dastardly deed. For instance why is it easier for some cultures/races to pull the trigger to kill someone or drive a knife deep in the body of someone, to purposely kill that individual? The answer IMO is the level or degree of civilized behavior is embedded in that individuals mind which is influenced dramatically, by the degree of uncivilized behavior that individual is exposed to in their country of origin, combined with hate. This is where I think our government as let Canadians down relating to all ethnic immigration from third world countries is not factoring in the level of civilized behavior and forcing the burden and potential life threatening ramifications onto a higher civilized Canadian population. So relating to all Muslims in general from Islamic countries the only criteria separating a non violent Muslim as compared to the terrorist variety, is non-civilized and civilized behavior, with both behaviors obviously both actively pursued to whatever unknown degree in Muslim Islamic countries. This is of course complicated by the fact there is no standard currently available to measure the degree of hate and civilized behavior thereby making all Muslims in general a potential risk as immigrants to Canada. Just the usual image of how these people react, and express their emotions - whether they be celebrating or mourning - firing their automatic weapons into the air, clearly shows a very vivid picture. Their expression of anger usually causes someone's death...or slaughter! A bloodbath is a common occurence. It is not civilized behaviour.

"Canada's healthy economy, Manley said, was the "result of the determination and discipline of the Prime Minister and my predecessor as Minister of Finance, the Honourable Member for LaSalle-Emard." In case you didn't know -- and who does? -- the MP for LaSalle-Emard is Paul Martin. Such obtuse praise for the Heir Apparent certainly marks this as Jean Chrétien's "legacy budget." A tad mean-spirited, but necessary. After all, how could the PM take all the credit for Canada's alleged prosperity without mentioning his former finance minister? Then again, how could he give credit to Paul Martin by name, when he fired the guy without cause after a job well done in a churlish attempt to sabotage his succession chances?" http://www.canada.com/national/features/bu...4D-46B268F87C66 Uh-oh....I hope we don't have to do any lengthy explanations about "various degrees" or definition of "mean-spiritedness."

Maybe because his 'mean-spiritedness" was being done behind closed doors......and mostly directed at....Martin? Besides, it's pretty hard to be "mean-spirited" with the Tories in public when you're too busy defending yourself from accusations of corruptions and fraud! However, it's so easy to mask mean-spiritedness by just using a few spins....such as taking cheapshots at our neighbors.....perhaps in an effort to cause some distractions.

As what the title says: "EXPLANATIONS needed." I guess this thread means we'll be doing a lot of explaining....pretty much on almost everything we say! And we start with the simple word "Hate." Oh well, if that's the only way some will get it....why would we not give a helping hand?

The culture of hate is so strong that they even send in a 9 month pregnant woman as a suicide bomber. And had used a child in one of the most recent bombing, I think.

But it still all boils down to that, H A T E. Someone who hates you but could live side by side with you will still have that hatred simmering underneath. Which is more dangerous I wonder? One who vocally expresses his hate....or one whose hate is just itching to be vented? And HATE is what we're talking about. It is a very strong word. It "implies a great dislike or aversion, and with persons as the object, connotes the bearing of malice." - Webster's New Word Dict. You may hate our POV....but I don't think you wish us dead. Let's not confuse simple "dislike" or "distaste" or "objection" or "aversion" with hate.

But we can't leave religion out of it. It is the nittty-gritty! Osama Bin Laden and his sympathizers want to eliminate Western influence and restore their version of Islam to the world.{7} Bernard Lewis notes that Sayyid Qutb’s denunciation of American moral flaws became incorporated into radical Islamic ideology. For instance, he says Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, in calling the U.S. the "Great Satan," was being consistent with the Koranic depiction of Satan not as an "imperialist" or "exploiter" but as a seducer, "the insidious tempter who whispers in the hearts of men."{17} Ayatollah Khomeini”s "Islam is politics or it is nothing."{21} Wahhabism, a movement much in the news, was founded by an eighteenth century theologian, Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al- Wahhab. Wahhab wanted to purify Islam and return it to its authentic ways. Former CIA agent Robert Baer notes that Wahhabi soldiers fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s, with U.S. support. There, Wahhabis linked with radical followers of Sayyid Qutb, an alliance Baer likens to "mixing nitroglycerin in a blender."{31} A new, more militant strain of Wahhabism developed in addition to mainstream Wahabbism, with a new emphasis on taking the fight to outsiders: the infidels and the West.{32} http://www.probe.org/content/view/1086/162/

Bully. Why, oh why do I have this thug-ish image of Chretien grabbing this man by the neck, as beefy bemused bodyguards looked on?

Yah, and you hate them because they are. which is BTW, totally irrational. I see you buy into 'divide and conquer' quite nicely. Do you enjoy the subjugation? We are trying to have a discussion here. Your comment has nothing to do with the discussion at all. It's purely a personal attack. It derails the conversation. And it lowers the standard of this forum. If you've got nothing relevant to add, move aside!

And very rude! I wasn't the only one fuming about his rudeness on MDuffy Live (he relentlessly drowned out the other guest from explaining, even ignored Duffy who tried to intervene to let the other guy talk...and Duffy eventually gave up trying!). The next day, MDuffy was all serious about his moderating, and explained that he had a lot of emails complaining about his "guest's" rudeness. If I am a Liberal, I'd never ever consider Kennedy. He definitely lacks common courtesy and ethics to be qualified to lead, and represent a country! He should just stay where he's at today. A "strategist." Kennedy is very much interested to go for it, I'd say.

Why Radical Muslims Hate You Written by Rusty Wright Historical Roots of Hatred "The answer is complex and involves history, culture, politics, religion, and psychology. In his October 2001 video, Usama bin Ladin mentioned the "humiliation and disgrace" tormenting Islam for "more than eighty years." Princeton Near Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis notes that the reference likely puzzled many Westerners. Many Muslims -- for whom Islamic history carries divine significance -- understood. Bin Ladin referred to the 1918 defeat of the once- mighty Ottoman Empire and to British and French partitioning of Ottoman territory. Secular Turks soon also abolished the caliphate, or succession of rulers of all Sunni Islam. Desecration of this symbol of Muslim unity has pained many Muslims ever since.{4} For centuries, the Islamic world had displayed military, economic and scientific superiority. But European development eventually overtook Islam.{5} Today, United States ties with Israel and involvement in Saudi Arabia have kindled ire. Bin Ladin calls on Muslims to "obey God’s command to kill the Americans and plunder their possessions . . . to kill Americans and their allies, both civil and military . . . ."{6} He and his sympathizers want to eliminate Western influence and restore their version of Islam to the world.{7} Socio-cultural Roots of Hatred History is behind some of the radical Muslim hatred of the West. But so are cultural differences. Would you believe that dancing in an American church helped fuel Muslim anger today? In 1948, Sayyid Qutb visited the United States for Egypt’s Ministry of Education. His stay left him shocked with what he perceived as moral degeneracy and sexual promiscuity. He wrote that even American religion was tainted by materialism and consumerism. Churches marketed their services to the public like merchants and entertainers. Success, big numbers, "fun," and having "a good time" seemed crucial to American churches.{8} He especially deplored clergy-sanctioned dances at church recreation halls. When the ministers lowered the lights, the dances became hot. Here is Qutb’s "PG" description: "The dance is inflamed by the notes of the gramophone . . . the dance-hall becomes a whirl of heels and thighs, arms enfold hips, lips and breasts meet, and the air is full of lust." He cited the famous Kinsey Reports as evidence of American sexual debauchery.{9} Qutb, who was dark skinned, also experienced racism in America.{10} Back in Egypt, Qutb joined the Muslim Brothers organization.{11} Imprisonment and torture made his writings more militant. Qutb became what Georgetown University religion and international affairs professor John Esposito calls "the architect of radical Islam."{12} Secularization, consumerism, materialism, the status of women, sexual mores … all concern radical Muslims.{16} Bernard Lewis notes that Sayyid Qutb’s denunciation of American moral flaws became incorporated into radical Islamic ideology. For instance, he says Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, in calling the U.S. the "Great Satan," was being consistent with the Koranic depiction of Satan not as an "imperialist" or "exploiter" but as a seducer, "the insidious tempter who whispers in the hearts of men."{17} Political Roots of Hatred Bernard Lewis -- who is not without his critics{18} -- notes an essential difference between Christianity and Islam regarding government and religion. Jesus of Nazareth, the founder of the Christian faith, said, "Give to Caesar what belongs to him. But everything that belongs to God must be given to God."{19} For much of history, this has been understood as recognizing the existence of two distinct authorities, one spiritual and the other political.{20} But much of Islam has known no such distinction. Muhammad was both a religious and political leader, the Prophet and the head of state. Under his successors, the caliphs, Islam grew into a huge empire and world religion. Islamic shari‘a, or Holy Law, deals with power, authority and political philosophy. Specific applications differ among Islamic nations. In an extreme example of this spiritual/political blend, Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini once said, "Islam is politics or it is nothing."{21} With this mindset, the Western world and the United States as superpower become to many Muslims the infidel invaders, imperialist bullies who desecrate Islamic states by force. European colonialism, Western imperialism and U. S. policies are frequent Muslim complaints.{22} Many Muslims deplore the U. S. invasion of Iraq. Of course, U. S. concessions to Israel often are seen as collaboration with an enemy of Islam. Religious Roots of Hatred Still other reasons some radical Muslims hate you involve religion. Wahhabism, a movement much in the news, was founded by an eighteenth century theologian, Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al- Wahhab. Wahhab wanted to purify Islam and return it to its authentic ways. He condemned and burned books contradicting his views. Wahhab’s followers became fiercely exclusive. Their principal focus was not outsiders but insiders, Muslims whom they felt had practiced a "less-pure" form of Islam. They could be vicious, desecrating holy places and slaughtering Muslims who differed.{25} Wahhabism’s ongoing Saudi links would propel it into international influence. When Saudi forces conquered Arabia in 1925, they controlled Islam’s two most holy cities, Mecca and Medina. When Saudi Arabia became oil-rich, the stage was set. Wahhabism became the "official, state-enforced doctrine of one of the most influential governments in all Islam,"{26} which hosts annual pilgrimages to Mecca involving millions of Muslims from around the world. Saudi oil wealth funded Wahhabi propagation of their views at home and abroad.{27} Wahhabism affected both Usama bin Ladin and the Taliban.{28} Wahhabism’s pervasive influence troubles Princeton’s Lewis. Imagine, he says, that the Ku Klux Klan or a similar group took control of Texas and its oil and could widely propagate its version of "Christianity" through heavily endowed schools and colleges.{29} Georgetown’s Esposito distinguishes puritanical, politically conservative Wahhabism from radical, militant Wahhabism.{30} Former CIA agent Robert Baer notes that Wahhabi soldiers fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s, with U.S. support. There, Wahhabis linked with radical followers of Sayyid Qutb, an alliance Baer likens to "mixing nitroglycerin in a blender."{31} A new, more militant strain of Wahhabism developed in addition to mainstream Wahabbism, with a new emphasis on taking the fight to outsiders: the infidels and the West.{32} Psychological Roots of Hatred In addition to the foregoing, there are psychological factors at work in radical Muslim hatred. Lewis writes, "Almost the entire Muslim world is affected by poverty. . . ."{34} Georgetown’s John Esposito sees "weak economies, illiteracy, and high unemployment"{35} in many Muslim nations. Relative deprivation can be psychologically debilitating. If you are poor, some theories argue, and you see others more prosperous, you may feel inferior, trapped or depressed. Reports from the United Nations and the World Bank note that Arab nations fall far behind the West in "job creation, education, technology, and productivity."{36} (There are, of course, exceptions.) When global media bring pictures of lavish Western life, frustration burns and some extremists lash out. One Egyptian playwright described these extremists as "pathologically jealous." He said, "They feel like dwarfs, which is why they search for towers and all those who tower mightily."{37} Feelings of rejection play a part. Many Western societies have been slow to accept Muslims. The father of shoe bomber Richard Reid said of his son, "He was born here in Britain, like I was. It was distressing to be told things like ‘Go home, nigger.’"{38} New York Times foreign affairs columnist Thomas Friedman speaks of a "poverty of dignity" affecting even privileged Muslims. Belief in Islam’s superiority contrasted with economic and military disparity in the context of a repressive regime can engender feelings of humiliation, prompting vengeance against the perceived cause.{39}" http://www.probe.org/content/view/1086/162/

Truth be told, the onus is on the Liberals to prove that Dion - as he stoutly claim - is truly the so-called "champion" of the environment. That he did do significant improvement with the environment when he was the sitting minister! After all, the Liberals' track records have only proven that they are usually ALL TALK AND NO ACTION. AND ON THE RARE OCCASIONS THEY ACTED, IT'S USUALLY A COMPLETE MESS! That's why the Liberals have lying to a fine art. They've gotten so used to lying - defending themselves.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who fell for the lies by the right-wing to try to discredit Dion. Apparently BC chick, Michael Ignatieff and some environmental groups also fell for it. I guess I shouldn't feel so bad for being fooled then. Speak for yourself! I didn't fall for lies! I just simply listened to both sides....and discerned who's credible! Don't drag me with you if you have problems with discerning. And don't be discouraged. For some, it takes time to learn. If Dion will clearly explain what exactly he had done about the environment that made significant improvement ....OR the excuse(s) he has if as Ignatieff has said is true, "We didn't get the job done"....I'm only too keen to listen. Since Dion is touting himself to be the "hero" and the "champion of environment," surely it can't be too hard for him to justify his claims. Then I will discern some more.

Those are 13 long years we're talking about! THIRTEEN! If the Cons are wrong with their accusations.....well then, how come the Liberals aren't doing the most logical thing in proving the Cons wrong? Come out and explain, in details! Why hasn't the Liberals explain everything that they did for the environment in details? During those 13 long years? Surely that's the best way to pull the rug and make the Cons fall on their long noses! Well??? Hmmm.....okay....if they can't come up with anything significant and credible, I'll settle for the excuses then. What's their excuse to justify doing nothing? Too busy adscamming? Too pre-occupied building hotels and playing golf? Fighting their camp wars?

Oh thanks for the info, Cybercoma. That's good news!

Well how many names do we have in our gun registry? At least the FBI can say it's about their fight on terror! Whereas we've spent billions...and still spending...putting ordinary civilians on this list, for the SOLE reason of owning a gun or a rifle! And what reason do we give? Go figure!

Once, they made a mistake. 3 times....they're pretty dim! Bwa-ha-ha-ha! But anyway, let's look at this on a different angle. The Cons are just doing the Liberal voters a favor...by whacking the Liberals for insulting the Liberal voters! Let's face it, Liberals must think their loyal voters are so stupid! Lol!

Yep! I'd brag about my award! In December 2005, environmental groups awarded the Liberal government with the “Fossil of the Day” award at the Montreal conference that was being chaired by Stephane Dion (ECO, December 2, 2005,) http://www.climatenetwork.org/eco/2005/COP...h%20Dec%202.pdf and ECO, December 3, 2005, http://www.climatenetwork.org/eco/2005/COP11/ECOCOP11En06

Bingo! That explains the blog! To borrow from Madmax: HOSED AGAIN! Except the said phrase is not loosely used ...or mis-used in this particular case. nya-nya-nya LOL.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. What is the correlation you're talking about? Correlation to what? Drea is talking about percentages. Proportionate representation.

Uhhh..OK...why must Asians in Vancouver tolerate such uppity crime rates, along with higher rates by Whites! The crime rates by asians and whites are miniscule compared to the high rates of blacks.