Drea

I don't imagine that he was drunk, drugged or insane. Just angry. Very very angry. AGAIN, I am not condoning the behaviour.... Parents do kill their children... link another link Women killers Homicides To take this ONE case where the angry father just so happens to be Muslim and then saying that is the ONLY reason that kids are killed (not obeying Muslim law) is wrong.

Accident is simply the wrong wording. An accident is something that happens whether or not a person causes an "accident" is not relevant in this case. Because I understand how this could've happened does not mean that I condone the behaviour. I was just sick when my friend told me about Face (that's kitty's name) because he is my favourite of her cats. But I understand the level of frustration. I understand, not condone. You do know there is a difference between "understand" and "condone" right? Here: definition of "understand" definition of "condone" There, now hopefully I won't have to type it into every single post ten times for you folks to "get" it. Geez you make me out to be a murderer/kitty abuser/apologist.

well then I guess that MLW is just chock full of perfect people! Seriously tho -- I am not condoning the behaviour, but I can understand how it can happen. In this case, the father will most likely get manslaughter. At least the law understands. You people are more perfect than even our laws account for. Wow I am in utter awe of the perfection! You mean if a person trips and falls in the bathtub... it's not considered an "accident"? If they hadn't been using water.... if they hadn't been using soap.... they caused their own fall -- it was premeditated. Same with that woman who died in that car crash up north. If she hadn't have gotten in the car, if she didn't make that doctor appointment for that day... she would still be alive. Her car spinning out of control was her own fault. She should not have driven on that day. She should have known better. There are no such thing as "accidents". again, I am not condoning the behaviour, but I can understand how it can happen (how many times does this need to be repeated, *sigh*)

Here's an example: My friend loves her cat. Really really loves him. But he has begun shitting on the floor in the basement. Well the other day she was down there, playing on her computer when she smelled the familiar stink... she lost it. She shoved kitties head into the pile of shit and did it a bit too hard and cracked his head on the cement. She went crying, carrying the kitty to her husband "Help I've hurt him! OMG what should we do!?" Did she mean to hurt the cat? Of course not. It was just one additional shit added to all the other shits she had to clean up, that pushed her over the brink to get that pissed at him. Happens. All I am saying is that it happens. People are not robots. People lose it when pushed to far. Once again... I am not condoning what she did (or what the father-strangler did) but I can understand how it can happen. And the courts will agree with me. It was a crime of anger (I don't call it "passion" because that conotates coupledom). Nothing more. edited to add: Vet checkup says kitty has no broken bones and will be fine. He just refuses to go outside, so she got a litter box. Her other cats go outside as they please... but not this guy no way LOL

accidentally... can happen. In the heat of the moment people have been killed. Women usually. But you must admit, it does happen. People die because someone "loses it". Not necessarily because they planned it. And that is what I am trying to say -- but you people keep jumping all over me saying I condone the killing of teenagers for pete sake. In this specific case (father strangles daughter with scarf) I believe he "lost it". I do not believe he planned it. I do not believe this particular incident was an honour killing.

I know "what if's" are difficult but here goes: What if your daughter was going out with the neighbourhood drug dealer? And she looked at you and said "f%#@(*& you dad! I am doing whatever I want when I want and there is nothing you can do to stop me!" Would you feel "exasperated"? Would you shrug your shoulders and walk away "oh well, she is right, she can do whatever she wants"? If she walked home from school and every day you saw her she said f%#@(*& you dad. Would you feel like cuffing her upside the head? Of course you would! Would you do it? Perhaps, depends on how close to the end of your rope you were. What if you cuffed her a tad too hard and she died? I know you wouldn't kill her on pupose... by the way, many women have been killed by their partners in "crimes of passion" in he heat of anger they lose control of themselves and go to far. Our laws make allowances for this, yet we are practically calling for the head of this father for killing his daughter in the "heat of the moment".

Although there have been "honour" killings perpetrated by immigrants, in Canada. I don't believe this particular incident was an "honour" killing. It was more a crime of "extreme anger" in the heat of the moment. My grandmother used to throw blocks of wood at my mother (so I've been told) -- if she would've hit her in the head and killed her, it would be a crime of "passion". This is the same type of thing. Plus the man phoned the police, he did not try to get away with it by hiding her body and pretending she disappeared or whatever. That's the way I see it. I could be wrong though. Maybe he and his son plotted it... but if they had I think they would've had a plan to get rid of the body and not called the police.

I don't condone what this father did, but I certainly understand it. I understand how a person can become that exasperated with their teenager. I understand. Obviously some of you have lived very quiet sheltered lives so this type of "experience as or with a teenager" would be totally beyond your realm of understanding. I apologize for thinking that you may know something about the subject. My bad.

No, I was a bad teen. I did that ditch hiding thing at 14. I lipped off to my mother and was a terrible sullen, pain in the ass until I was about 16. Teenagers CAN drive a parent to the brink. I did it to my poor mom alot during those two rebellious years. I am lucky to be alive IMO As a parent I choose to operate differently than my parents did. I did, however, grab my son by the shoulders when he was 13 and made sure and in no uncertain terms that he would never ever disrespect me again. So far so good.

Of course not. Frig. The relationship between a parent and child is different than the relationship between spouses. But you know that. One may smack a toddler on their butt, but one would not swat their spouse -- the relationship is different. Children are not our equals. They are ours to teach and to guide and to get extremely exasperated with! If you get completely exasperated with your spouse (as one does with a teenager), perhaps you should get a divorce. once again because you are frothing over this over there ----------> I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE MAN. HE IS A MURDERER. Okay? Are you okay now.... or should we call the paramedics?

I didn't hear about that one...was he killed by a woman? Men are doing the killing. It's the rare occurance (more all the time though -- equality in good and bad I guess) that a woman is the killer. A bit back one poster talked about his ethnic friend "hiding" from her parent's taxi cab... I hid from my parents as a teen too! I remember hiding down in the ditch with my boyfriend because I wanted to spend the night with him. I could hear my mom calling and calling my name. When I think back and remember her voice, how she sounded so desperate to find me, I can imagine how worried she must have been. If she would've caught me that day she would've wrung my neck. Later in life, I apologized for making her worry that night. A teenager CAN drive you to many things.... not that I am making excuses for this man, but teenagers can drive you all the way aroung the bend.

If people are fool enough to give money over who are we to stop them? It's an "s" with two triangles. And who cares that they have nothing to do with Christianity. What difference doe that make? "Real" Church? YES! All religions should be treated in the same manner that we treat organized crime -- because that is what religion is -- an organization of criminals preying on those who are desperate for immortality -- jail the fraudulent bastards! I agree that we are very quickly decending into facism. Makes me glad I'm not a young person. I am sad for the youth. They are going to have to live in a world where their every move is monitored.

I found this site with some information on Scientology... Beliefnet IMO it seems to be about learning to live logically and not be "reactive" in order to reach "immortality". Besides the pie-in-the-sky info about becoming immortal, it's really about controlling your own reactions to attain a "higher" level of awareness. As fanciful as Scientology seems to be, it's no less plausible than any other religion. Definitions: Religion

I wasn't the one who said women have it easier in jail.. another poster mentioned how easy Homolka had it. He is bigger and stronger than me. I was hit once in a relationship. I left that very moment. As I would never stand for abuse, I would not expect any man to either. So, yes I was actually kidding. If you have been keeping up with various topics you would see that I am an advocate for men's rights with regard to divorce, custody, birthcontrol, and the like. I certainly have no need to "rant against men". Abusive men are more likely (not exclusively) to use physical violence. The vast majority of abusive women bitch and nag but that never put anyone in the hospital nor killed them. I know of men who are emotionally abusive and it's a terrible thing. It cannot cause death so it is not quite as terrible as getting a beating. No? Yes, of course there are cases of abusive women who physically beat the men in their lives. But this woman-on-man abuse occurs less often than the man-on-woman abuse. Even in our culture (and yes, on MLW) there are men that believe women should be "controlled". The level of what "control" means may differentiate western men from the Muslim man who kills his daughter or wife in an attempt to control her, but it is still there. Yes, again... there are controlling women, but in most abusive situations it's obvious that our culture still has vestiges of the inequitable era when the partriarchy ruled and women had to obey.

HOw can you take away something that belongs to her (the Visa). Your sure seem to think that women are wholly dependent on men for their incomes... not the case anymore darlin'. We gots our own Visas now. Ps, it is 2007.... not 1957. Did someone forget to wake you? Many men like big butts so wearing "fat" pants is a good thing for some! Heck I am all for equality... those 12 or so women that have physically abused men to the point of disability or death.... well we can just do the same to them as well!The thread is about a father who killed his daughter. Male kills female. If it would have been a son and a mother, do you think mommy would have choked her son because he didn't want to be "traditional"? I highly doubt it. Only men want to have complete control over the women in their lives (hell even my hubby still has vestiges of the partriarchy in his psyche.) I am working on beating it out of him however <---- kidding. Just tryin' ta get yer goat. LOL

My mom worked with a young woman from Pakistan. She was supposed to marry some old bugger and didn't want to. She disappeared. Maybe ran away, maybe married off, maybe killed we will never know. Men who abuse women should have their hands cut off, one finger at a time (as a warning) the first time they lose their baby finger.. the second time the ring finger... and so on. This way it would be easy to identify abusers and avoid them.... although I did date a nice guy who was missing the tip of his middle finger... hmmmm.

IMO, the men that did this to this little girl should not be allowed to continue life as men. Rape a child-- become a eunic. To hell with "rehabilitation". I don't give a shit how old they were, they knew what they were doing.

It seems that, because of the many accounts of it, there was an acual flood and it is not an allegorical story. That does not necessarily mean that it was a punishment handed down by "god". The Noah story of course, also has a basis in reality. Although, rather than "angels" who told him about the coming flood, perhaps it was gleaned from experiences from earlier generations that had experienced such a catacalysm. There is evidence around the world (I'd have to go find the book) that seven asteroids of varying sizes hit the earth at the time of the flood. The animals in the ark... believable enough. Could be he took a few of each type of animal in his region. Also could be that he was able to collect their DNA... but that's another theory entirely Thing is, many of the stories in the bible have a basis in reality. As do the Sumerian and other texts. The notion of "god's anger" or "punishment" was made up by humans, however. What occurred was a world-wide catacalysm. And if a similar event has been recorded by an even older civilization then there may be a pattern and Revelations could be a warning of a cyclical event.

Honestly Jefferiah, I just cannot understand how there can be a creator, an entity so to speak, that judges whether or not we get an afterlife by how hard we prayed rather than how we lived our lives. If a person lives their life without harming others, doing work to help others; being a productive, non-disruptive, fair and equitable human without the belief in Jesus/God -- shouldn't that person be more deserving of an afterlife than the person who harms others, is unproductive, disruptive, goes out of their way to be mean to others, yet believes in Jesus/God? I call myself an athiest because I do not know. Not because I don't want their to be an afterlife, but because I doubt that it exists. A book written by human beings so many generations ago is not enough to convince me that it is true. It is so full of contradictions and antiquated ideologies that I am amazed it hasn't been relegated to the basements of old libraries. I have read portions of the King James bible. I am especially interested in Genesis and Revelations. I think Genesis is a illiteration of real history copied from much older texts. Even the Sumerians said their texts (The Epic of Gilgamesh, etc) came from sources much older. I got a book for my hubby for Christmas (I am dying to read it myself) called "Fingerprints of the Gods". It's about the possiblity that there have been civilizations on earth for tens of thousands of years. Revelations... tough one. Could be an "fanciful" account of ancient asteroids hitting the earth... Interesting at the very least...

It's damn cold here man! Only the toughest can make it. OoooOOoo... into the "not so much" thang. Kewel! Like you are in control of what happens

Surely you jest! You would have the media "block him out" because he is saying something you don't agree with? Right or wrong, people should never be muzzled. Once we muzzle people, we are on the road to facism. Haven't people learned anything? We are in such a tizzy over hurting people's feelings, pretty soon we won't even be able say the most inocuous things...

I don't see a problem... you must've done something right in raising your daughter and should be filled with pride that she is dining with Mcginty. Congrats on raising a nondrugged out productive human being Oleg!

Is that because "acuzz we'er Merican and we'er the meeenest sumbiches ya'll ever meat". Its true! But you should not be proud of being the biggest ahole on the planet, you should be working to fix your reputation! Even an old faded whore closes up shop after she's done so many.... While you personally may love GW and what he has done to your country. Many people do not. Americans included. Now clean up the damn mess and get back to friggin' normal (hiding the crap you guys do instead of hanging it out for the world to see so we can all go back to thinking you are the "good guys")

So one simply believing Jesus existed is enough? If god were powerful enough to create a son to come to earth then why can he not show up now, when atheism is on the rise? Of course I know there is no answer to this question but it begs asking (for the skeptics anyway). So one must repent in order to get into "heaven"? So there ARE hoops to jump through and one can be "good" enough if one were to recognize their "sinful" behaviour (I fail to see how playing with my godgiven "toy" is sinful, but I'll go with what you say...) and promise never to do it again. Here are the seven "sins"... each and every human being on earth, repentant or not is doing at least ONE of these things right now as I type this... heathens! 1. Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. I think we should all take pride in what we do. I am proud of myself when I manage a difficult situation at work. It feels good to be proud. I also like how I look. I guess I am vain. 2. Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. I would so love to have a huge chunk of land like the one I grew up on... I also envy those who do not have to worry about money, mortgages, etc. I am envious. 3. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires. I LOVE dark chocolate and will go so far as to hide it so no one else gets any. I am a chocolate glutton. 4. Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. OMG OMG OMG. I never have to fake it. 5. Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. Anger can also spur one on to do good things. I get angry when I see homeless people being treated badly by others. 6. Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. I want a bigger house. I want a cool new car. I am greedy because I already live in a house, I already drive a car, but they are not enough, I want better/newer ones. 7. Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. Ok yah got me. I am not sloth. I work daily at my work, my house. I do my own spiritual work as I do Yoga and centre my chakras every morning. I freely and without guilt practice these seven "deadly" sins. I-am-a-human.

Indeed! But in some people's minds... its because we are "jealous".. Here's how world opinion of America went from Envy to Disgust in 5 short years. 2000 -- before GW, America was the envy of the world and everyone wanted to come to America 2001 -- 911. Sympathy. The world sympathized with the horrific deaths of 3000 people 2003 -- Invade Iraq. Spawned hatred. The world began to see what the Bush regime was really all about 2005 -- Disgust at the treatment of it's own citizens during and after Katrina 2007-08 -- Now the world is pleading with the American people to get back on track, to become the America they used to know and love.